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Reply #40: Agreed, within limits. [View All]

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politicat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-04-09 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
40. Agreed, within limits.
Cellaring has been in use for thousands of years, but has a lot of variables. Ice cellaring has been in use for a few centuries, but requires surplus labor, so is not commonly available. Cellars themselves require a significant investment in labor, so weren't available to the poor, the recently arrived (in the case of the westward migration) or those on flood plains.

As for shipping ice, that really starts with the advent of the functional railroad, so mid 19th century. Before that, there were a few attempts to pack ice for shipment to places like India, but they were mostly "demonstration projects", not fully functional trade. (They didn't make enough money.)

And right on food preservation, and on the dangers of food poisoning, but the question currently hot in historical epidemiology is how much food-borne illness really existed. Grazed meats are less likely to carry the nastier e. coli strains, shigella and listeria are less common... And of course, being exposed to local bacteria means people end up with iron-clad immune systems, if they reach 5 years old... (and lots didn't.)
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  -An historical observation, or pastry before refrigeration politicat  Aug-31-09 11:50 PM   #0 
  - there are pie doughs that require no refrigeration  grasswire   Sep-01-09 01:13 AM   #1 
  - Anyone have a clue why that works?  eridani   Sep-01-09 04:54 AM   #2 
  - there are several methods for making pie dough  grasswire   Sep-01-09 10:54 AM   #5 
     - That's interesting, I hadn't heard of it  wildflower   Sep-01-09 01:42 PM   #9 
     - proportions please...  Tesha   Sep-01-09 02:00 PM   #10 
     - Would you be willing to share with the rest of us?  housewolf   Sep-01-09 02:27 PM   #11 
     - LOL! You can share it with folks. Don't mind me.  hippywife   Sep-01-09 06:35 PM   #12 
     - I'm a pie crust dropout  eleny   Sep-01-09 08:33 PM   #13 
     - Flaky Pastry III  grasswire   Sep-01-09 10:57 PM   #14 
        - oops  grasswire   Sep-01-09 11:01 PM   #15 
        - Thanks, Grasswire  housewolf   Sep-02-09 12:46 AM   #18 
        - Thanks so much, your instructions are very clear!  eleny   Sep-02-09 10:43 AM   #21 
           - my kitchenaid is model C-3 -- a vintage gem  grasswire   Sep-02-09 10:51 AM   #22 
           - Thanks!  eleny   Sep-02-09 10:54 AM   #23 
              - I'll be in and out today, but holler if you need a tip  grasswire   Sep-02-09 10:57 AM   #24 
                 - photo test  grasswire   Sep-02-09 11:31 AM   #27 
                 - Aagh! Not even enough canned filling in the house to experiment  eleny   Sep-02-09 12:25 PM   #28 
                 - Okay, we went to the seasonal green grocer and picked up peaches & Gala apples  eleny   Sep-02-09 05:04 PM   #29 
           - oh, to answer another question  grasswire   Sep-02-09 11:01 AM   #25 
     - My family recipe uses oil  buzzycrumbhunger   Sep-02-09 07:08 AM   #19 
        - The thing with the oil crusts is  hippywife   Sep-02-09 11:18 AM   #26 
        - Oh, yeah!  buzzycrumbhunger   Sep-02-09 06:38 PM   #30 
        - Beautiful crust!  eleny   Sep-03-09 01:35 PM   #35 
  - Well...  hippywife   Sep-01-09 08:38 AM   #4 
  - before refrigeration...  Tesha   Sep-01-09 05:22 AM   #3 
  - Don't forget that pate brisee was developed in France  Warpy   Sep-01-09 11:28 AM   #6 
     - many put up apples for next summer's pies  grasswire   Sep-01-09 12:26 PM   #7 
     - Safe canning was developed in the early to mid 19th century  Warpy   Sep-01-09 12:51 PM   #8 
     - Yep...  politicat   Sep-02-09 12:42 AM   #17 
     - Absolutely -- and I do, and my grandparents did...  politicat   Sep-02-09 12:38 AM   #16 
        - Was/is history taught with Home Ec?  elleng   Sep-02-09 07:28 AM   #20 
           - some resources  Retrograde   Sep-02-09 07:08 PM   #32 
           - It seems to me that 'food' would be a GREAT way to teach history,  elleng   Sep-02-09 09:20 PM   #33 
           - another great book  Retrograde   Sep-03-09 01:11 PM   #34 
           - Exactly, HUGE amounts there,  elleng   Sep-03-09 08:04 PM   #37 
           - There Are Food Anthropologists  NashVegas   Sep-05-09 07:20 AM   #41 
              - Sounds like it.  elleng   Sep-05-09 07:28 AM   #42 
           - Connections (original series), episode 8, "Eat, Drink and Be Merry"  eShirl   Sep-07-09 06:18 PM   #43 
           - Generally not.  politicat   Sep-04-09 07:29 PM   #39 
     - There were other ways of getting cooler temperatures  Retrograde   Sep-02-09 07:02 PM   #31 
        - Ice delivery was common through the 1940s  Warpy   Sep-03-09 02:20 PM   #36 
        - I remember seeing the ice man make a delivery in my area of Queens, NY  eleny   Sep-03-09 08:16 PM   #38 
           - My Dad, who's 95 now, tells great stories of his family members  elleng   Sep-08-09 04:02 AM   #44 
        - Agreed, within limits.  politicat   Sep-04-09 07:46 PM   #40 

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