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Reply #51: Exactly - sounds very similar to my own "liberal" knuckledragger [View All]

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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-01-07 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #43
51. Exactly - sounds very similar to my own "liberal" knuckledragger
Edited on Tue Jan-02-07 12:27 AM by Triana
ESPECIALLY this part:

"as long as i accepted the fact that i was inferior to him... and then accepted the blame for the lousy relationship ON THE GROUNDS that i was inferior to him."

He TOLD the couples counsellor that in HIS opinion all our relationship issues (which were primarily caused by his fear and insecurity which manifested in the relationship as a disregard of me as a human being and subsequent verbal and emotional abuse) were MY fault. He used to say "well, there's a GOOD reason I blame you for everything - because everything IS all YOUR fault!" I'm sure that's a familiar song and dance, no?

This guy considers himself "liberal" - voted for Democrats most of the time. But - a 'feminist' or any supporter of women or women's rights - NOPE. That he was NOT. He had an angry streak in him where women were concerned and was bent on controlling (and judging whether valid or not) their every action, reaction, and emotion. He was angry. He was controlling. He was insecure -- and that's why he was angry and controlling.

I read something on Dr. Irene's site about guys who like to tell the woman they're abusing "You're oversensitive!" - her suggested response is: "Yes. That's right. RESPECT it."

DON'T make excuses or explain to them why you're upset or blah blah - or try to get them to understand. That only validates their assertion (which is usually a projection of their own anger or fear or insecurity onto you). They don't NEED to understand why you're upset or "oversensitive" - because you're NOT. They need to address their OWN anger and insecurity and stop projecting it onto - and taking it out on - someone else - that's what they need to do.

The Verbal Abuse book, (which Dr. Irene recommends also) says the same thing. It's easier said than done though, when someone is hurling "you're imagining things!", "You're insecure!", "You're oversensitive!", "You're lazy!" insults at you. It requires a great deal of self-assuredness - and NOT allowing someone else to degrade YOUR opinion or image of yourself by hurling their own personal crap at you. Crap they don't want to deal with directly - but it comes out SOMEWHERE - always - and it happens to be coming out on you. Don't believe anything they tell you about yourself (because they're really talking about THEMSELVES). Only believe what YOU tell you about yourself. And don't let anyone change that. Except YOU -- if YOU think it needs to change.

I STILL think every woman out there (and most men) ought to have a copy of that Verbal Abuse book!
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  -Angry White Men (or, just Angry, Insecure Men, IMO) Triana  Dec-27-06 12:08 PM   #0 
  - hmmmmm  wtbymark   Dec-27-06 12:16 PM   #1 
  - there you go...doing exactly what she said AWMs do...  Triana   Dec-27-06 12:20 PM   #2 
  - Great, now, even when we use the word "some"  lukasahero   Dec-27-06 12:53 PM   #6 
     - wtbymark apparently Kant Read  Triana   Dec-27-06 01:36 PM   #7 
        - Question  Orrex   Dec-27-06 01:41 PM   #8 
        - She could....and maybe should but the way I read it...  Triana   Dec-27-06 01:51 PM   #9 
        - Well, I think she's fairly clear, but I meant more generally...  Orrex   Dec-27-06 02:11 PM   #10 
           - Here on DU, it has become obligatory to use the word some  lukasahero   Dec-27-06 02:37 PM   # 
              - I absolutely hear what you are saying, about the hijacking of threads.  quantessd   Jan-01-07 02:52 PM   #50 
        - if you can't have either "some" or "all" then basically you're saying we can't  nashville_brook   Dec-31-06 05:07 PM   #45 
        - "You know the ones."  lukasahero   Dec-27-06 02:39 PM   #12 
           - Yes. I thought she was very clear that she was not referring...  Triana   Dec-27-06 04:31 PM   #13 
              - "Not one of them has addressed the issue"...  lukasahero   Dec-27-06 04:41 PM   #14 
                 - It's easier to just keep blaming women...  Triana   Dec-27-06 04:56 PM   #15 
  - Can we take issue with the Thich Nhat Hanh quote?  Orrex   Dec-27-06 12:29 PM   #3 
  - Seems it had to do with blame...but I don't know the context  Triana   Dec-27-06 12:36 PM   #4 
  - what is wrong with the TNH quote?  nashville_brook   Dec-31-06 05:12 PM   #46 
  - "there is a substantially well-organized AWM movement "  NCevilDUer   Dec-27-06 12:39 PM   #5 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Dec-27-06 02:37 PM   #11 
  - One more thing about these abusers I learned...  Triana   Dec-27-06 07:58 PM   #16 
  - Christ  BoneDaddy   Dec-29-06 12:38 AM   #18 
  - If the shoe fits...  Morgana LaFey   Dec-29-06 12:48 AM   #20 
  - AFAIC - any male who responds in this thread is one of them...  Triana   Dec-29-06 09:33 AM   #22 
  - Wrong  BoneDaddy   Dec-29-06 10:15 AM   #27 
  - I would ask you to define masculinity. Are you meaning machismo  shance   Dec-30-06 12:25 PM   #41 
  - Yes, you do HAVE TO.  quantessd   Jan-02-07 03:51 AM   #53 
     - I wondered that myself....  Triana   Jan-02-07 06:50 AM   #54 
     - Reporting back to you:  quantessd   Jan-03-07 12:55 AM   #56 
        - thanks....  Triana   Jan-03-07 01:36 AM   #58 
     - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jan-04-07 08:41 AM   #59 
  - Not sure about that  Orrex   Dec-29-06 12:40 PM   #28 
     - No one declared men summarily guilty...  Triana   Dec-29-06 01:03 PM   #29 
     - Of course it's the Women's Rights Forum  Orrex   Dec-29-06 01:41 PM   #30 
        - Well said  BoneDaddy   Dec-29-06 03:42 PM   #32 
     - given that verbal abuse exists and you don't consider yourself a verbal abuser,  nashville_brook   Dec-31-06 05:31 PM   #48 
        - This part  Orrex   Jan-05-07 11:31 AM   #60 
  - No it is the  BoneDaddy   Dec-29-06 09:40 AM   #24 
     - You didn't read it..or you didn't read it correctly...  Triana   Dec-29-06 09:45 AM   #26 
  - i fail to see where T is demonizing "all men" here -- are all men "verbal abusers"?  nashville_brook   Dec-31-06 05:23 PM   #47 
  - see---precisely what the OP was talking about  SemperEadem   Jan-06-07 10:39 AM   #62 
     - Exactly. All men are not abusers...and I do encourage women  Triana   Jan-06-07 01:50 PM   #67 
  - omg -- describes the EX to a "T" -- he actually bruised me a few times  nashville_brook   Dec-31-06 04:19 PM   #44 
  - This thread describes my ex to a T  Feron   Jul-08-07 11:01 PM   #70 
  - Where is the woman's responsibility?  BoneDaddy   Dec-28-06 08:54 PM   #17 
  - Post #18  Morgana LaFey   Dec-29-06 12:46 AM   #19 
     - Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself  Triana   Dec-29-06 09:40 AM   #23 
     - Great points Morgana. To add, I would include the economic factor  shance   Dec-29-06 02:52 PM   #31 
        - You're exactly right  Morgana LaFey   Dec-29-06 06:01 PM   #33 
           - Or starvation of your kids...  Triana   Dec-29-06 06:14 PM   #34 
           - This is very much the same case today unfortunately. Many men have gotten  shance   Dec-29-06 06:58 PM   #35 
              - loss of status and...  Triana   Dec-29-06 09:31 PM   #36 
                 - You and I must know the same woman Triana.*  shance   Dec-30-06 01:01 AM   #37 
                    - Christian beliefs...  Triana   Dec-30-06 09:38 AM   #38 
                    - Triana, thank you for this post and thank you for what you are doing.  shance   Dec-30-06 11:55 AM   #40 
                       - You're welcome...  Triana   Dec-30-06 12:53 PM   #42 
                    - Sometimes, even a therapist doesn't help  SemperEadem   Jan-06-07 11:22 AM   #63 
                       - Patricia Evans points this out in her book - about traditional counselling...  Triana   Jan-06-07 01:59 PM   #68 
  - Excellent thread, Triana  Morgana LaFey   Dec-29-06 12:49 AM   #21 
  - PLEASE do...  Triana   Dec-29-06 09:42 AM   #25 
  - Dr. Irene's Verbal Abuse Site...(resource)  Triana   Dec-30-06 10:42 AM   #39 
  - another site which is good  SemperEadem   Jan-06-07 12:09 PM   #65 
     - THANK YOU! That is a great site!  Triana   Jan-06-07 01:47 PM   #66 
  - my EX was seen as a feminist/enlightened guy, BUT he did every one of those  nashville_brook   Dec-31-06 04:12 PM   #43 
  - Thank you for posting. Sometimes JUST being a guy gives them precedence.  shance   Jan-01-07 03:31 AM   #49 
  - the illusion of romance and marriage is definitely...  Triana   Jan-02-07 12:11 AM   #52 
  - Exactly - sounds very similar to my own "liberal" knuckledragger  Triana   Jan-01-07 11:59 PM   #51 
  - while women and men are BOTH subject to this kind of abuse, here's why it's in the Women's  nashville_brook   Jan-05-07 03:48 PM   #61 
     - Yep, Accomodate the abuse  lwfern   Jan-06-07 12:04 PM   #64 
        - The Evil Stepmother is all i can think of... but she is not redeemable  nashville_brook   Jan-06-07 04:06 PM   #69 
        - Such stories exist, although in the UK I don't think they're well known any more.  Donald Ian Rankin   Jul-09-07 07:04 AM   #71 
  - How interesting. I've seen similar scenarios.  quantessd   Jan-03-07 12:23 AM   #55 
     - That's just a distraction tactic...  Triana   Jan-03-07 01:27 AM   #57 
  - I can't tell you how many times I've come up against #s 2 & 4 --  Katherine Brengle   Jul-09-07 07:13 AM   #72 
     - I believe you - #2 especially - heck, DOCTORS will tell women that, often...  Triana   Jul-30-07 12:23 PM   #73 
     - You and me both! Every boyfriend I ever had did those. nt  raccoon   Jul-31-07 10:00 AM   #74 

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