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Reply #70: There might have been plausible reasons for early people to believe in some crude astrology [View All]

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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-03-11 09:22 PM
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70. There might have been plausible reasons for early people to believe in some crude astrology

Of things in the sky, the sun is clearly important. I suspect the influence of the moon on the tides was probably known, at various times, by various people in different places, too, but it may not be entirely obvious -- so, for example, Galileo explicitly lamented the fact that Kepler listened to folk about that. And star positions may correlate with seasons, for example -- a matter that may have some general bearing on the weather. It is not so great a leap of imagination to wonder, then, whether the visible planets have any impact

The pragmatist C. S. Peirce once said that science only appeared in civilizations that had a history of magical thought -- the point being that the effort to understand the world will necessarily pass through phases, but that one cannot gain real knowledge with first having a belief that some arcane secrets can be obtained that will give us greater control

The ancient astrologies may not have had much in common with each other or what some people today call astrology. Opinions were mixed, even in antiquity: it's possible, for example, to find early Christian era writings ridiculing astrology, and Constantine banned it outright. Before the time of inexpensive published ephemera, getting somebody to accurately calculate the positions, of the planets at your birth, would have been a very expensive proposition, though charlatans have always been available. But after Newton, people would be able say "The midwife has a greater gravitational influence on the newborn than any of the planets." So one might expect astrology to have had a limited heyday between the time Ptolemaic astronomy was introduced to medieval Europe and the Newtonian revolution -- that is, between the thirteenth and seventeenth centuries -- and the invention of the printing press led promptly to broadside news sheets, which included all manner of material, including astrological predictions, and so perhaps astrology's real resurgence is post-Gutenberg
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  -What caused the death of astrology? Lionel Mandrake  May-30-11 04:13 PM   #0 
  - Except for the Reagan administration, of course...  hlthe2b   May-30-11 04:19 PM   #1 
  - There's a group on DU for it too.  laconicsax   May-30-11 04:23 PM   #4 
  - I would have posted in that group, but ...  Lionel Mandrake   May-30-11 04:32 PM   #8 
  - Nor do I.  laconicsax   May-30-11 04:46 PM   #10 
     - Just as the DU Pets Group is not the place  Lionel Mandrake   May-30-11 07:20 PM   #22 
        - I don't know about that.  laconicsax   May-30-11 08:42 PM   #25 
           - Be that as it may, others would be offended. n/t  Lionel Mandrake   May-30-11 09:39 PM   #26 
  - Astrology isn't fiction  lbrtbell   May-30-11 05:48 PM   #18 
     - No astrology is fiction  WatsonT   May-30-11 05:52 PM   #19 
     - Sorry, but it is.  laconicsax   May-30-11 08:39 PM   #24 
  - Poor Nancy.  Lionel Mandrake   May-30-11 04:49 PM   #12 
  - Good riddance to bad rubbish.  laconicsax   May-30-11 04:20 PM   #2 
  - Science killed astrology  sakabatou   May-30-11 04:23 PM   #3 
  - Did you read the Original Post of this thread?  Boojatta   May-30-11 05:29 PM   #16 
  - Increasing literacy rates and public education  WatsonT   May-30-11 05:53 PM   #20 
     - Educated people are, by definition, literate.  Lionel Mandrake   May-30-11 10:53 PM   #27 
        - But literate people are not necessarily educated  WatsonT   May-30-11 10:58 PM   #28 
           - Let's talk about dates.  Lionel Mandrake   May-31-11 12:52 AM   #29 
              - "astrology "died" (or was marginalized) during the latter half of the seventeenth century"  WatsonT   May-31-11 04:51 PM   #46 
                 - When and why do you think that happened?  Lionel Mandrake   May-31-11 07:40 PM   #49 
  - Personally, I think it's an interesting topic  lillypaddle   May-30-11 04:24 PM   #5 
  - the ancient Egyptians were advanced beyond nearly all cultures...  hlthe2b   May-30-11 04:39 PM   #9 
     - Because keeping slaves and hereditary rule is so advanced...  jberryhill   May-31-11 07:48 AM   #32 
        - How does that negate their advances in science, construction..  hlthe2b   May-31-11 07:59 AM   #33 
           - The thread is about astrology  jberryhill   May-31-11 10:05 AM   #34 
           - Yes... it is about astrology... not about slavery & whatever other  hlthe2b   May-31-11 11:35 AM   #37 
              - Mysticism has always been a tool for hierarchical control  jberryhill   May-31-11 12:12 PM   #39 
           - Egypt was a fairly simple society, they just had a lot of manpower,  Odin2005   Jun-02-11 01:22 AM   #67 
  - The introduction of soft sciences  Riftaxe   May-30-11 04:26 PM   #6 
  - The soft sciences like psychology, sociology, ...  Lionel Mandrake   May-30-11 05:03 PM   #14 
     - You might be taking Riftaxe too literally.  Boojatta   May-30-11 05:37 PM   #17 
     - there is a reason reputable is in quotes  Riftaxe   Jun-01-11 01:37 AM   #52 
        - Some sciences are more reputable than others.  Lionel Mandrake   Jun-01-11 12:25 PM   #54 
  - Real hard science killed it and the alchemists.  ChrisBorg   May-30-11 04:30 PM   #7 
  - Alchemy is different.  Lionel Mandrake   May-30-11 05:16 PM   #15 
     - but there is nothing worthwhile in it  Warren Stupidity   May-30-11 06:57 PM   #21 
     - The loss of confidence in astrology among the elite  Lionel Mandrake   May-30-11 07:55 PM   #23 
     - The distinction between "astronomy" and "astrology" is an anachronism before about 1700  Recursion   May-31-11 07:48 AM   #31 
        - Yes and no.  Lionel Mandrake   May-31-11 11:41 AM   #38 
           - Thinking back, I agree with you, Group Captain  Recursion   May-31-11 12:26 PM   #40 
              - The notation we now use in differential calculus  Lionel Mandrake   May-31-11 03:41 PM   #42 
              - I have, however, read the Principia  Recursion   May-31-11 04:15 PM   #44 
              - "I also just like Leibniz's notation better."  laconicsax   May-31-11 04:13 PM   #43 
                 - specifically, the fact that it lets you treat dx as something is important  Recursion   May-31-11 04:16 PM   #45 
                    - The naive concept of a differential is indispensable.  Lionel Mandrake   May-31-11 08:07 PM   #50 
  - It don't work  izquierdista   May-30-11 04:47 PM   #11 
  - Well shit,  lillypaddle   May-30-11 04:52 PM   #13 
     - "Sexual Astrology" is even better..  Viva_La_Revolution   May-31-11 10:56 AM   #35 
        - Hey... If by "works", someone means "you can get laid"  jberryhill   May-31-11 11:21 AM   #36 
  - Eh? Newton was an occultist  Recursion   May-31-11 07:45 AM   #30 
  - Newton's theory of gravity involved occult forces,  Lionel Mandrake   May-31-11 03:19 PM   #41 
  - Just guessing but it might have been ...  GeorgeGist   May-31-11 07:05 PM   #47 
  - Nope, because it was "common sense" that started it.  laconicsax   May-31-11 07:29 PM   #48 
     - Some of this "common sense" is still with us.  Lionel Mandrake   May-31-11 08:20 PM   #51 
     - Well, nobody ever really thought the world is flat  Recursion   Jun-01-11 08:25 AM   #53 
        - Some did, and some still do think the Earth is flat.  Lionel Mandrake   Jun-01-11 02:11 PM   #55 
        - Sailing  Recursion   Jun-01-11 02:30 PM   #58 
           - You're right.  Lionel Mandrake   Jun-01-11 03:26 PM   #61 
              - Oops - I forgot about the precession of the equinoxes.  Lionel Mandrake   Jun-01-11 05:15 PM   #62 
                 - Yes, I did a paper on that  Recursion   Jun-01-11 09:01 PM   #65 
                    - That just makes things exciting.  laconicsax   Jun-01-11 09:32 PM   #66 
        - You're kidding, right?  laconicsax   Jun-01-11 02:18 PM   #56 
           - It's found in poetic language even today  Recursion   Jun-01-11 02:28 PM   #57 
  - Irreproducible results.  Orsino   Jun-01-11 02:48 PM   #59 
  - Here's a reproducible result:  laconicsax   Jun-01-11 02:55 PM   #60 
  - Some suggestions:  muriel_volestrangler   Jun-01-11 06:45 PM   #63 
  - Very interesting. Thank you.  Lionel Mandrake   Jun-01-11 08:59 PM   #64 
  - About that web site  Lionel Mandrake   Jun-02-11 12:40 PM   #68 
  - Where does that site point out that  Lionel Mandrake   Jun-02-11 08:49 PM   #69 
  - Was royal patronage of astrology a 16th century fad?  Lionel Mandrake   Jun-05-11 03:33 PM   #71 
  - There might have been plausible reasons for early people to believe in some crude astrology  struggle4progress   Jun-03-11 09:22 PM   #70 
     - Recursion made a similar point in post #53  Lionel Mandrake   Jun-05-11 03:58 PM   #72 
 

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