struggle4progress
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Fri Jun-03-11 09:22 PM
Response to Original message |
| 70. There might have been plausible reasons for early people to believe in some crude astrology |
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Of things in the sky, the sun is clearly important. I suspect the influence of the moon on the tides was probably known, at various times, by various people in different places, too, but it may not be entirely obvious -- so, for example, Galileo explicitly lamented the fact that Kepler listened to folk about that. And star positions may correlate with seasons, for example -- a matter that may have some general bearing on the weather. It is not so great a leap of imagination to wonder, then, whether the visible planets have any impact
The pragmatist C. S. Peirce once said that science only appeared in civilizations that had a history of magical thought -- the point being that the effort to understand the world will necessarily pass through phases, but that one cannot gain real knowledge with first having a belief that some arcane secrets can be obtained that will give us greater control
The ancient astrologies may not have had much in common with each other or what some people today call astrology. Opinions were mixed, even in antiquity: it's possible, for example, to find early Christian era writings ridiculing astrology, and Constantine banned it outright. Before the time of inexpensive published ephemera, getting somebody to accurately calculate the positions, of the planets at your birth, would have been a very expensive proposition, though charlatans have always been available. But after Newton, people would be able say "The midwife has a greater gravitational influence on the newborn than any of the planets." So one might expect astrology to have had a limited heyday between the time Ptolemaic astronomy was introduced to medieval Europe and the Newtonian revolution -- that is, between the thirteenth and seventeenth centuries -- and the invention of the printing press led promptly to broadside news sheets, which included all manner of material, including astrological predictions, and so perhaps astrology's real resurgence is post-Gutenberg
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| -What caused the death of astrology? |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-30-11 04:13 PM |
#0 |
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Except for the Reagan administration, of course... |
hlthe2b |
May-30-11 04:19 PM |
#1 |
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There's a group on DU for it too. |
laconicsax |
May-30-11 04:23 PM |
#4 |
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I would have posted in that group, but ... |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-30-11 04:32 PM |
#8 |
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Nor do I. |
laconicsax |
May-30-11 04:46 PM |
#10 |
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Just as the DU Pets Group is not the place |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-30-11 07:20 PM |
#22 |
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I don't know about that. |
laconicsax |
May-30-11 08:42 PM |
#25 |
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Be that as it may, others would be offended. n/t |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-30-11 09:39 PM |
#26 |
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Astrology isn't fiction |
lbrtbell |
May-30-11 05:48 PM |
#18 |
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No astrology is fiction |
WatsonT |
May-30-11 05:52 PM |
#19 |
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Sorry, but it is. |
laconicsax |
May-30-11 08:39 PM |
#24 |
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Poor Nancy. |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-30-11 04:49 PM |
#12 |
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Good riddance to bad rubbish. |
laconicsax |
May-30-11 04:20 PM |
#2 |
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Science killed astrology |
sakabatou |
May-30-11 04:23 PM |
#3 |
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Did you read the Original Post of this thread? |
Boojatta |
May-30-11 05:29 PM |
#16 |
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Increasing literacy rates and public education |
WatsonT |
May-30-11 05:53 PM |
#20 |
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Educated people are, by definition, literate. |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-30-11 10:53 PM |
#27 |
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But literate people are not necessarily educated |
WatsonT |
May-30-11 10:58 PM |
#28 |
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Let's talk about dates. |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-31-11 12:52 AM |
#29 |
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"astrology "died" (or was marginalized) during the latter half of the seventeenth century" |
WatsonT |
May-31-11 04:51 PM |
#46 |
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When and why do you think that happened? |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-31-11 07:40 PM |
#49 |
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Personally, I think it's an interesting topic |
lillypaddle |
May-30-11 04:24 PM |
#5 |
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the ancient Egyptians were advanced beyond nearly all cultures... |
hlthe2b |
May-30-11 04:39 PM |
#9 |
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Because keeping slaves and hereditary rule is so advanced... |
jberryhill |
May-31-11 07:48 AM |
#32 |
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How does that negate their advances in science, construction.. |
hlthe2b |
May-31-11 07:59 AM |
#33 |
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The thread is about astrology |
jberryhill |
May-31-11 10:05 AM |
#34 |
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Yes... it is about astrology... not about slavery & whatever other |
hlthe2b |
May-31-11 11:35 AM |
#37 |
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Mysticism has always been a tool for hierarchical control |
jberryhill |
May-31-11 12:12 PM |
#39 |
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Egypt was a fairly simple society, they just had a lot of manpower, |
Odin2005 |
Jun-02-11 01:22 AM |
#67 |
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The introduction of soft sciences |
Riftaxe |
May-30-11 04:26 PM |
#6 |
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The soft sciences like psychology, sociology, ... |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-30-11 05:03 PM |
#14 |
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You might be taking Riftaxe too literally. |
Boojatta |
May-30-11 05:37 PM |
#17 |
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there is a reason reputable is in quotes |
Riftaxe |
Jun-01-11 01:37 AM |
#52 |
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Some sciences are more reputable than others. |
Lionel Mandrake |
Jun-01-11 12:25 PM |
#54 |
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Real hard science killed it and the alchemists. |
ChrisBorg |
May-30-11 04:30 PM |
#7 |
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Alchemy is different. |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-30-11 05:16 PM |
#15 |
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but there is nothing worthwhile in it |
Warren Stupidity |
May-30-11 06:57 PM |
#21 |
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The loss of confidence in astrology among the elite |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-30-11 07:55 PM |
#23 |
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The distinction between "astronomy" and "astrology" is an anachronism before about 1700 |
Recursion |
May-31-11 07:48 AM |
#31 |
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Yes and no. |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-31-11 11:41 AM |
#38 |
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Thinking back, I agree with you, Group Captain |
Recursion |
May-31-11 12:26 PM |
#40 |
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The notation we now use in differential calculus |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-31-11 03:41 PM |
#42 |
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I have, however, read the Principia |
Recursion |
May-31-11 04:15 PM |
#44 |
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"I also just like Leibniz's notation better." |
laconicsax |
May-31-11 04:13 PM |
#43 |
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specifically, the fact that it lets you treat dx as something is important |
Recursion |
May-31-11 04:16 PM |
#45 |
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The naive concept of a differential is indispensable. |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-31-11 08:07 PM |
#50 |
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It don't work |
izquierdista |
May-30-11 04:47 PM |
#11 |
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Well shit, |
lillypaddle |
May-30-11 04:52 PM |
#13 |
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"Sexual Astrology" is even better.. |
Viva_La_Revolution |
May-31-11 10:56 AM |
#35 |
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Hey... If by "works", someone means "you can get laid" |
jberryhill |
May-31-11 11:21 AM |
#36 |
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Eh? Newton was an occultist |
Recursion |
May-31-11 07:45 AM |
#30 |
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Newton's theory of gravity involved occult forces, |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-31-11 03:19 PM |
#41 |
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Just guessing but it might have been ... |
GeorgeGist |
May-31-11 07:05 PM |
#47 |
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Nope, because it was "common sense" that started it. |
laconicsax |
May-31-11 07:29 PM |
#48 |
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Some of this "common sense" is still with us. |
Lionel Mandrake |
May-31-11 08:20 PM |
#51 |
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Well, nobody ever really thought the world is flat |
Recursion |
Jun-01-11 08:25 AM |
#53 |
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Some did, and some still do think the Earth is flat. |
Lionel Mandrake |
Jun-01-11 02:11 PM |
#55 |
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Sailing |
Recursion |
Jun-01-11 02:30 PM |
#58 |
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You're right. |
Lionel Mandrake |
Jun-01-11 03:26 PM |
#61 |
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Oops - I forgot about the precession of the equinoxes. |
Lionel Mandrake |
Jun-01-11 05:15 PM |
#62 |
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Yes, I did a paper on that |
Recursion |
Jun-01-11 09:01 PM |
#65 |
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That just makes things exciting. |
laconicsax |
Jun-01-11 09:32 PM |
#66 |
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You're kidding, right? |
laconicsax |
Jun-01-11 02:18 PM |
#56 |
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It's found in poetic language even today |
Recursion |
Jun-01-11 02:28 PM |
#57 |
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Irreproducible results. |
Orsino |
Jun-01-11 02:48 PM |
#59 |
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Here's a reproducible result: |
laconicsax |
Jun-01-11 02:55 PM |
#60 |
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Some suggestions: |
muriel_volestrangler |
Jun-01-11 06:45 PM |
#63 |
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Very interesting. Thank you. |
Lionel Mandrake |
Jun-01-11 08:59 PM |
#64 |
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About that web site |
Lionel Mandrake |
Jun-02-11 12:40 PM |
#68 |
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Where does that site point out that |
Lionel Mandrake |
Jun-02-11 08:49 PM |
#69 |
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Was royal patronage of astrology a 16th century fad? |
Lionel Mandrake |
Jun-05-11 03:33 PM |
#71 |
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There might have been plausible reasons for early people to believe in some crude astrology |
struggle4progress |
Jun-03-11 09:22 PM |
#70 |
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Recursion made a similar point in post #53 |
Lionel Mandrake |
Jun-05-11 03:58 PM |
#72 |