laconicsax
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Sun Feb-13-11 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #20 |
| 22. That's the thing--we do know why, and it has nothing to do with the method. |
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People knew that chewing willow bark or using it in a tea reduced fever and relieved pain. The question of why was investigated and salicylic acid was discovered to be the cause. Now, you can take acetylsalicylic acid (a synthetic form of salicylic acid) in the form of asprin to get the same benefits.
Acupuncture relieves pain because of physiological responses to pain and dermal stimulation, not because of meridians/Qi/etc. The results are real, the method is fraudulent. If you want the same results, you can buy your own needles and stick them wherever you like, whenever you like. You can even get the same results by touch if you don't want to risk self-harm.
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| -Be Wary of Acupuncture, Qigong, and "Traditional Chinese Medicine" |
FLAprogressive |
Feb-13-11 12:46 AM |
#0 |
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Seriously? Acupuncture? I wonder what drug company/ies are behind Quack Watch? |
gateley |
Feb-13-11 12:48 AM |
#1 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Feb-13-11 12:52 AM |
#2 |
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It is still on their list.... |
ingac70 |
Feb-13-11 12:55 AM |
#4 |
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Actual science rejects the idea that chiropractic causes magical healing by correcting subluxations |
Orrex |
Feb-13-11 12:59 AM |
#5 |
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When I was 2, I was dropped on my head..a teenager was |
shraby |
Feb-13-11 01:07 AM |
#8 |
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You know, you might have simply grown out of it |
Orrex |
Feb-13-11 08:00 AM |
#28 |
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The regular doc was pretty sure that it was permanent. |
shraby |
Feb-13-11 07:48 PM |
#56 |
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All right... |
Orrex |
Feb-13-11 09:08 PM |
#61 |
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The doc was a big old burly man..I went long enough to |
shraby |
Feb-13-11 09:17 PM |
#63 |
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Chiropractors are good for a number of conditions. But they are not good for many more |
uppityperson |
Feb-14-11 02:40 PM |
#81 |
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Then why do insurance companies cover it? Why do MD's and DO's refer patients |
gateley |
Feb-13-11 01:10 AM |
#9 |
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They sure as hell don't cover it for its alleged magical healing powers |
Orrex |
Feb-13-11 07:56 AM |
#27 |
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There will never be enough "proof" for them nt |
WolverineDG |
Feb-13-11 10:30 AM |
#30 |
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I know. It must be miserable having such a closed, inflexible mind. |
gateley |
Feb-13-11 10:43 AM |
#32 |
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Open-mindedness... |
HuckleB |
Feb-13-11 10:44 AM |
#34 |
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Contrast that with people for whom no proof is necessary |
Orrex |
Feb-13-11 01:59 PM |
#41 |
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Brilliant post. |
trotsky |
Feb-13-11 02:14 PM |
#42 |
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Well, by continually dismissing posts of those who have benefited from visiting a chiro |
WolverineDG |
Feb-13-11 03:54 PM |
#46 |
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"science worshippers"... |
SDuderstadt |
Feb-13-11 04:41 PM |
#50 |
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No, you are misrepresenting my posts |
Orrex |
Feb-13-11 04:44 PM |
#51 |
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"People for whom no proof is necessary" |
WolverineDG |
Feb-13-11 10:49 PM |
#66 |
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Um, no. I just reviewed my first reply in this thread. And my second. And my third. And so on. |
Orrex |
Feb-14-11 07:03 AM |
#76 |
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Me me! I'm a "science worshipper" indeed. If it can be proven scientifically, it shows proof. |
uppityperson |
Feb-14-11 02:44 PM |
#82 |
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+1...nt |
SidDithers |
Feb-14-11 09:31 AM |
#77 |
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magical healing? No. Serious pain relief? Hell yes. n/t |
ingac70 |
Feb-13-11 01:15 AM |
#11 |
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I am not a fan of quackery |
Confusious |
Feb-13-11 04:04 AM |
#25 |
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There are some |
Dorian Gray |
Feb-13-11 11:37 AM |
#37 |
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Not surprised. Maybe because they can't prescribe drugs? nt |
gateley |
Feb-13-11 01:13 AM |
#10 |
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Chiropractic Vertebral Subluxations: Science vs. Pseudoscience |
HuckleB |
Feb-13-11 10:14 AM |
#29 |
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What's needling you about it. |
Wilms |
Feb-13-11 12:54 AM |
#3 |
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Acupuncture helped my 87 yr. old mother with her back problems. It totally works. |
glinda |
Feb-13-11 01:01 AM |
#6 |
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You could have helped her equally well without paying a magician. n/t |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 01:56 AM |
#14 |
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Recent study in Germany with another Country has proven that acupuncture actually |
glinda |
Feb-13-11 10:33 AM |
#31 |
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All that study shows is that the brain notices when the body is poked. |
HuckleB |
Feb-13-11 10:44 AM |
#33 |
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They tested it without acupuncture for pain response in brain. If it works fine. |
glinda |
Feb-13-11 01:20 PM |
#40 |
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It's not that I think it's bunk. |
HuckleB |
Feb-13-11 04:10 PM |
#47 |
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Acupuncture works wonders. |
madfloridian |
Feb-13-11 01:05 AM |
#7 |
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The results are unrelated to the method used. |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 01:55 AM |
#13 |
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Duke University researchers say acupuncture reduces the pain of surgery. |
pnwmom |
Feb-13-11 02:04 AM |
#16 |
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That doesn't address what I said. |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 02:18 AM |
#18 |
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Many medical procedures -- particularly old ones -- are used on the basis of results. |
pnwmom |
Feb-13-11 02:28 AM |
#20 |
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That's the thing--we do know why, and it has nothing to do with the method. |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 02:48 AM |
#22 |
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That is just not true. |
madfloridian |
Feb-13-11 10:59 AM |
#35 |
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You completely missed the point. |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 03:45 PM |
#44 |
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I agree. |
Rhiannon12866 |
Feb-13-11 02:00 AM |
#15 |
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No, it doesn't. |
HuckleB |
Feb-13-11 11:07 AM |
#36 |
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Just because it's bullshit? |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 01:48 AM |
#12 |
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UCSF doctors say acupuncture with massage reduces pain after cancer surgery. |
pnwmom |
Feb-13-11 02:09 AM |
#17 |
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Results vs. method. |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 02:23 AM |
#19 |
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So sticking needles in has a "pain mitigating effect" even according to you. |
pnwmom |
Feb-13-11 02:37 AM |
#21 |
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No, but it does make it fraudulent. |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 02:55 AM |
#23 |
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I pay for results |
Flo Mingo |
Feb-13-11 06:27 AM |
#26 |
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The results are unrelated to the method used in acupuncture. |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 03:52 PM |
#45 |
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The MD's who are studying it and even using it don't consider it fraudulent. |
pnwmom |
Feb-13-11 12:31 PM |
#38 |
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And some people don't consider waterboarding to be torture. |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 04:12 PM |
#48 |
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So now you're comparing acupuncture to waterboarding. |
pnwmom |
Feb-13-11 05:02 PM |
#52 |
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No, I'm comparing opinion to opinion. |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 05:35 PM |
#54 |
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There have been plenty of scientific studies showing acupuncture works. |
pnwmom |
Feb-13-11 07:02 PM |
#55 |
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You would almost seem to be intentionally missing the point. |
trotsky |
Feb-13-11 08:19 PM |
#57 |
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You are sticking your nose in here without reading all the previous posts. |
pnwmom |
Feb-13-11 09:56 PM |
#65 |
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Nope, I'm just understanding what is being said. |
trotsky |
Feb-14-11 06:20 AM |
#75 |
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Let's try a simple analogy: |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 08:56 PM |
#59 |
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All the analogies in the world won't change the fact |
pnwmom |
Feb-13-11 10:50 PM |
#67 |
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I'm sure the Society for Acupuncture Research is completely impartial. |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 11:28 PM |
#68 |
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The authors of the paper are medical professionals |
pnwmom |
Feb-13-11 11:38 PM |
#69 |
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So obviously the Society for Acupuncture Research has no interest in the outcome of the research. |
laconicsax |
Feb-14-11 12:39 AM |
#70 |
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Since when are serious medical researchers limited to those with no interest |
pnwmom |
Feb-14-11 04:35 AM |
#73 |
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Are you seriously going to argue that conflict of interest is no big deal? |
laconicsax |
Feb-14-11 04:43 AM |
#74 |
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Those are medical researchers at well-respected institutions. |
pnwmom |
Feb-14-11 03:50 PM |
#84 |
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Society for Acupuncture Research. |
laconicsax |
Feb-14-11 04:17 PM |
#86 |
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You're quibbling with the journal that published the research. |
pnwmom |
Feb-14-11 04:41 PM |
#87 |
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Well, let's see...they're selling something based on lies, so yeah. It's fraud. |
laconicsax |
Feb-14-11 06:56 PM |
#88 |
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Now you're comparing accupuncture proponents to Birthers?... |
SidDithers |
Feb-14-11 09:36 AM |
#78 |
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We should construct some sort of continuum of... |
SDuderstadt |
Feb-14-11 09:41 AM |
#79 |
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Pshaw. They're tame compared to the 'lizard people' people. |
laconicsax |
Feb-14-11 02:07 PM |
#80 |
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recommend |
xchrom |
Feb-13-11 03:39 AM |
#24 |
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Be wary of Stephen Barrett |
BuddhaGirl |
Feb-13-11 01:20 PM |
#39 |
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"Barrett could NOT pass the examinations necessary to become "Board Certified."" |
ingac70 |
Feb-13-11 02:34 PM |
#43 |
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Traditional Chinese Medicine = You Support Poachers. |
Odin2005 |
Feb-13-11 04:40 PM |
#49 |
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Pharmaceutical drugs - you support animal testing. |
BuddhaGirl |
Feb-13-11 05:22 PM |
#53 |
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Animal testing isn't driving species extinct. |
Odin2005 |
Feb-13-11 08:41 PM |
#58 |
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*psst* |
laconicsax |
Feb-13-11 09:16 PM |
#62 |
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LULZ! |
Odin2005 |
Feb-13-11 09:17 PM |
#64 |
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If you can come up with an eco-friendly way for me to sell powdered rhino horn, I'm all ears |
Orrex |
Feb-13-11 09:03 PM |
#60 |
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Exactly. Black bears get slaughtered so assholes can treat their hemorrhoids |
snagglepuss |
Feb-14-11 02:51 AM |
#71 |
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Better question: |
laconicsax |
Feb-14-11 04:32 AM |
#72 |
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Be wary of ANY medicine |
uppityperson |
Feb-14-11 02:51 PM |
#83 |
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Personally... |
CanSocDem |
Feb-14-11 04:14 PM |
#85 |
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Aren't those the things that you insert in... |
Orrex |
Feb-14-11 10:54 PM |
#89 |
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