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Reply #5: Skinner, LGBT people are telling you there's a problem at DU. [View All]

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Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » GLBT Donate to DU
Duncan Grant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-20-08 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. Skinner, LGBT people are telling you there's a problem at DU.
I'm surprised you started your message defending DU and the mods while offering little or no empathy to the LGBT community members here. I can't speak for others but I'm trying to create a safer and more supportive environment at DU. I was hoping you would ally with me to address homophobia but after reading your post, it seems you're more interested in the rules (and defending the mods). I doubt you'll give our feedback the serious attention it deserves.

My complaint is that those locked threads are emblematic of a larger issue at DU. In your rules there seems to be no room for context. Regarding the locked threads, have you or the mods asked yourselves:

"What's the real problem?"
"In our role as mods and administrators, is it possible we're not seeing the big picture?"
"Do the DU members who are posting in the "Best of..." threads have a legitimate argument?"
"What do I need to do to understand this? Could I hold a belief system that is uninformed? entitled? privileged?"

As a former mod, I'm familiar with the mod forum and how it works. I made an agreement with you that I wouldn't talk about that responsibility publicly. But as a former mod, I will tell you that the moderation on LGBT bigotry is seriously flawed. There are other gay former mods who may be bold enough to tell you that's their experience, too.

I'll have more to say about this later. Right now, I'm angry. So, while I'm grateful you're here in the LGBT forum -- you haven't started off on the right foot, if you ask me. Your message is insulting and patronizing. The tone is condescending; bordering on mockery.

You close with the suggestion that it's time to move on. I couldn't disagree more. It's time for you and the mods to understand the LGBT experience here at DU. Until you're ready to do more than admonish me and insult my intelligence, I'm not sure we'll have much more to say to each other.
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  -I understand that we've had a few issues come up here in the GLBT forum. A couple things... Skinner  May-20-08 08:53 PM   #0 
  - Skinner, from one member of DU and there opinion.. You guys do an awesome...  LakeSamish706   May-20-08 09:00 PM   #1 
  - Not sure what happened with Lithos  panader0   May-20-08 09:01 PM   #2 
  - That would be 'zero'. n/t  Dr_eldritch   May-20-08 11:35 PM   #19 
     - Let's double their pay! nt  tbyg52   May-21-08 05:47 PM   #100 
  - Oh, I doubt you've been called worse than this!  WillBowden   May-20-08 09:02 PM   #3 
  - Thanks,  mitchtv   May-20-08 09:27 PM   #4 
  - Skinner, LGBT people are telling you there's a problem at DU.  94114_San_Francisco   May-20-08 10:06 PM   #5 
  - It's been obvious for a very long time that there's a very serious problem  ThomCat   May-20-08 11:45 PM   #20 
  - Thank you  TechBear_Seattle   May-21-08 08:22 AM   #37 
  - Very well said, 94114. Not to pile on Skinner, except that he asked for it here...  PelosiFan   May-21-08 08:48 AM   #39 
  - I hope you ask yourself why there is this level of anger among DU's GLBT community  LeftCoast   May-20-08 10:11 PM   #6 
  - I want to associate myself with posts 5 and 6  dsc   May-20-08 10:17 PM   #7 
  - Thank you for this  Horse with no Name   May-21-08 12:49 AM   #29 
  - Unfortunately Skinner my experience here is not what you allude to either  FreeState   May-20-08 10:20 PM   #8 
  - Did you even read Lithos' thread? Or even better, his responses?  Solon   May-20-08 10:27 PM   #9 
  - Maybe It Depends On How The Word Is Used?  queerart   May-20-08 10:44 PM   #12 
     - Even worse, most of the posts in the original 2 threads and the 3rd started by dsc...  Solon   May-20-08 10:49 PM   #13 
        - I Can't Help But Smile......  queerart   May-20-08 10:55 PM   #14 
           - Oh, Lithos violated the rules of DU!  Solon   May-20-08 11:21 PM   #15 
  - i'm with posts 5 and 6 as well --  xchrom   May-20-08 10:34 PM   #10 
  - There are a lot of good people on this thread and the other begging to be heard.  LeftyMom   May-20-08 10:41 PM   #11 
  - hmmmm  indigo32   May-20-08 11:31 PM   #17 
  - Allow me to explain why you are wrong.  Toasterlad   May-20-08 11:30 PM   #16 
  - A little empathy would go a long way, Skinner.  Chovexani   May-20-08 11:33 PM   #18 
  - "I'm not fighting anymore, Skinner. You win."  ThomCat   May-20-08 11:51 PM   #22 
  - This is my gurl. K&R if I could this post!!  goldcanyonaz   May-21-08 01:06 AM   #30 
  - You are awesome.  AspieGrrl   May-21-08 06:14 AM   #33 
  - This post deserves a standing ovation  Der Blaue Engel   May-21-08 10:18 AM   #52 
  - This post absolutely breaks my heart.  racaulk   May-22-08 09:13 AM   #130 
  - That's a lot of words to say "Shut up and stop raising a stink."  ThomCat   May-20-08 11:48 PM   #21 
  - Ditto the posts on here #5, #6, and others  dbackjon   May-20-08 11:57 PM   #23 
  - Skinner's mom goes to college...  crimsonblue   May-20-08 11:59 PM   #24 
  - skinner  undergroundpanther   May-21-08 12:17 AM   #26 
     - I agree.  ccharles000   May-21-08 06:16 AM   #34 
     - Fat phobic?  John Kerry VonErich   May-22-08 10:11 AM   #132 
  - No Skinner, we really can't move on.  MuseRider   May-21-08 12:11 AM   #25 
  - equality is a CORE  undergroundpanther   May-21-08 12:22 AM   #27 
     - I would say that it  MuseRider   May-21-08 12:29 AM   #28 
        - It is still a core democratic principle  Bluenorthwest   May-21-08 09:29 AM   #47 
  - Fine. If you say we can pretty much speak our minds in this thread  Jamastiene   May-21-08 02:04 AM   #31 
  - We have felt attacked  jumptheshadow   May-21-08 05:46 AM   #32 
  - I'm with 5 and 6 too ...  meegbear   May-21-08 06:44 AM   #35 
  - I'm logging in briefly, because this is an important thread. The treatment of the GLBT posters here  BleedingHeartPatriot   May-21-08 07:38 AM   #36 
  - Your last 3 paragraphs are the  MuseRider   May-21-08 08:51 AM   #40 
     - Thank you, MuseRider. You are one of my all time favorite posters,  BleedingHeartPatriot   May-21-08 08:23 PM   #107 
  - This is starting to look like a purge of GLBT members  TechBear_Seattle   May-21-08 08:40 AM   #38 
  - Oh, you big drama queen, you.  baby_mouse   May-21-08 02:51 PM   #85 
  - Obscure hetero checking in to add his two cents (i.e a show of solidarity, FWIW):  RandomKoolzip   May-21-08 08:58 AM   #41 
  - me too  AZDemDist6   May-21-08 01:44 PM   #76 
  - Move On or Move Out  foxeyes2   May-21-08 09:02 AM   #42 
  - Where is the corresponding post to be pinned at the top of GD  Book Lover   May-21-08 09:02 AM   #43 
  - A pinned thread stating that homophobia is not allowed in any form, would be nice.  PelosiFan   May-21-08 09:19 AM   #46 
     - There was one in 2004, but no follow-through.  LeftyMom   May-21-08 12:37 PM   #67 
        - Yes. That thread is exactly what I was thinking of  Book Lover   May-21-08 12:40 PM   #68 
        - WOW! Thanks for posting that. I wish they still stood by those rules.  PelosiFan   May-21-08 12:58 PM   #70 
        - You should post that as its own thread.  PelosiFan   May-21-08 01:00 PM   #71 
  - I've just read this whole thread, and I'm curious why you have not responded once.  PelosiFan   May-21-08 09:07 AM   #44 
  - He probably isn't going to respond.  oktoberain   May-21-08 09:57 AM   #50 
  - That lack of response says volumes, doesn't it? n/t  racaulk   May-21-08 02:24 PM   #82 
  - What I want to know is why post it in GLBT and not where the problem is stemming from  FreeState   May-21-08 04:35 PM   #90 
     - ***Ding ding ding! We have a winner!***  racaulk   May-22-08 12:14 PM   #139 
  - Thanks for talking down to me.  xmas74   May-21-08 09:18 AM   #45 
  - Since now I don't have to send this back channel in an alert  Dinkeldog   May-21-08 09:38 AM   #48 
  - Question from the outskirts of the trans community...  LeftHander   May-21-08 09:51 AM   #49 
  - Wedges, obviously. We are NOTHING BUT wedges, it seems. NT  baby_mouse   May-21-08 02:46 PM   #84 
  - If alerting was enough, there would have been no need for those threads.  DarkTirade   May-21-08 10:08 AM   #51 
  - "If you want to complain about someone, complain about me."  Der Blaue Engel   May-21-08 10:37 AM   #53 
  - Talking down your nose  Bluenorthwest   May-21-08 10:51 AM   #54 
  - "Jews are going to cost us the election." Yep you're right. That wouldn't be tolerated here.  PelosiFan   May-21-08 11:04 AM   #55 
     - Or "I'm personally against interracial marriage"  ronnykmarshall   May-21-08 11:20 AM   #56 
        - Or "I don't care what black people do as long as they don't do it in public"  PelosiFan   May-21-08 11:26 AM   #57 
           - I think Bush is BLACK!  ronnykmarshall   May-21-08 11:34 AM   #58 
           - Thanks you two  Bluenorthwest   May-21-08 11:43 AM   #59 
           - And one more thing  Bluenorthwest   May-21-08 12:00 PM   #63 
           - "Why is it that only black people end up in the hospital with gerbils up their..."  PelosiFan   May-21-08 11:45 AM   #60 
              - Desegregating the Armed forces was foolish! n/t  Solon   May-21-08 11:50 AM   #61 
                 - It was a social experiment!  Dinkeldog   May-21-08 11:56 AM   #62 
                    - I just changed a couple of words, from this thread...  Solon   May-21-08 12:01 PM   #64 
                       - See! This is EXACTLY what the BEST-OF threads are for, to point this sort of thing out.  PelosiFan   May-21-08 01:45 PM   #77 
                          - Good lord  MuseRider   May-21-08 01:49 PM   #78 
                          - Yep, It was never locked. Just allowed to stink up the place and finally get archived.  PelosiFan   May-21-08 02:03 PM   #79 
                             - So now it sits  MuseRider   May-21-08 02:05 PM   #80 
                          - Fucking CHRIST.  baby_mouse   May-21-08 03:26 PM   #88 
           - Now Blacks and whites can marry Watermelon and corn sales will go up...  FreeState   May-21-08 01:17 PM   #72 
  - I loved that you think our concerns are less than the concerns of vegetarians  lionesspriyanka   May-21-08 12:23 PM   #65 
  - OK, couple of things... some have already been said, but you need to hear them again  Book Lover   May-21-08 12:31 PM   #66 
  - Isn't being condescended to by straights  Tyo   May-21-08 12:51 PM   #69 
  - May I?  MuseRider   May-21-08 01:37 PM   #75 
     - Hi MuseRider  Tyo   May-21-08 05:00 PM   #91 
        - Thank you for letting me stand with you.  MuseRider   May-21-08 06:09 PM   #102 
  - Well, I haven't been paying too much attention  mitchtv   May-21-08 01:20 PM   #73 
  - My only issue is uneven enforcement of the rules  MonkeyFunk   May-21-08 01:35 PM   #74 
  - Skinner...  baby_mouse   May-21-08 02:23 PM   #81 
  - Oh, yeah, and, uh...... (whispers...) T. O. N. E. D. E. A. F.  baby_mouse   May-21-08 02:30 PM   #83 
  - Remember when you yourself used the word "faggy" inappropriately?  PelosiFan   May-21-08 02:55 PM   #86 
  - It Only Gets More Bizarre.........  queerart   May-21-08 05:38 PM   #97 
  - OMG  LeftCoast   May-21-08 06:52 PM   #105 
  - Um.  Fran Kubelik   May-21-08 02:57 PM   # 
  - it's like this in the feminist forum too  undergroundpanther   May-21-08 05:27 PM   #93 
  - Translation of your last paragraph: "We've given you a little time to vent. Now get over it."  racaulk   May-21-08 02:57 PM   #87 
  - Out of a sense of fairness  jumptheshadow   May-21-08 03:28 PM   #89 
  - It'd be helpful if a mod or admin would even TRY to communicate with the members  RandomKoolzip   May-21-08 05:08 PM   #92 
  - Skinner?...*crickets*  undergroundpanther   May-21-08 05:34 PM   #95 
  - more like a "let them throw tantrums like children" while i ignore them like the adult i am.  lionesspriyanka   May-21-08 05:34 PM   #96 
     - Oh really?  undergroundpanther   May-21-08 05:43 PM   #99 
  - Please tell me you're not going to ignore this thread. We need dialog not a proclamation.  94114_San_Francisco   May-21-08 05:27 PM   #94 
  - I'll add a fifth option  Dinkeldog   May-21-08 05:42 PM   #98 
  - As a matter of fact, we are reviewing every single post....  Skinner   May-21-08 05:59 PM   #101 
     - Thank you  MNBrewer   May-21-08 06:12 PM   #103 
     - I hope you'll review this thread, too.  94114_San_Francisco   May-21-08 06:16 PM   #104 
  - whining, faux outrage, thin skinned.  IndianaJones   May-21-08 07:04 PM   #106 
  - i live for faux outrage!  lionesspriyanka   May-22-08 11:14 AM   #133 
  - What caused the boil-over?  Mimosa   May-21-08 08:43 PM   #108 
  - The Best of DU Glbt.... Larry Craig, McClurkin and more...  bliss_eternal   May-21-08 09:53 PM   #109 
  - Here's another of the "everyone we hate is gay" variety  LeftCoast   May-21-08 10:22 PM   #110 
  - Thank you, Skinner.  damkira   May-21-08 10:42 PM   #111 
  - And you speak for the "gay community" how?  BleedingHeartPatriot   May-21-08 11:06 PM   #112 
  - By trolling trans threads with bigoted garbage.  Chovexani   May-21-08 11:43 PM   #120 
  - "couple of loud-mouth malcontents"  ThomCat   May-21-08 11:14 PM   #113 
  - It's been way more than a "couple"  MNBrewer   May-21-08 11:22 PM   #114 
  - There appear to be at least forty "malcontents" in this thread alone  hulklogan   May-21-08 11:30 PM   #116 
  - Stop giving the Democratic Party a "wedgie"!!! hehe  MNBrewer   May-21-08 11:34 PM   #117 
     - LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!!1111eleventy  Chovexani   May-21-08 11:41 PM   #118 
  - Pardon me, but if it weren't for "malcontents"  Book Lover   May-21-08 11:50 PM   #121 
  - Well, if the rules start getting enforced, then her posts would get deleted  LostinVA   May-22-08 06:51 AM   #125 
  - Isn't she the one  gaspee   May-22-08 12:02 PM   #134 
     - Yep, that's the one.  racaulk   May-22-08 12:09 PM   #137 
  - Exactly!  racaulk   May-22-08 12:10 PM   #138 
  - Malcontents...?  bliss_eternal   May-21-08 11:59 PM   #122 
  - ...  baby_mouse   May-22-08 02:01 AM   #123 
  - I see that your apologies for your anti-trans comments were hollow.  PelosiFan   May-22-08 06:33 AM   #124 
  - Another "non-contributor" speaks.  Tyler Durden   May-22-08 08:02 AM   #126 
  - Don't you have some transgendered people to insult?  racaulk   May-22-08 08:31 AM   #128 
  - actually i think its you who doesnt represent us.  lionesspriyanka   May-22-08 10:06 AM   #131 
  - A "few issues"? Good god. You can't possibly be this clueless, Skinner.  Beausoir   May-21-08 11:26 PM   #115 
  - kick  xchrom   May-21-08 11:42 PM   #119 
  - The time is FAR past for the board to stand up for EQUALITY.  Tyler Durden   May-22-08 08:11 AM   #127 
  - Yes!  Bluenorthwest   May-22-08 08:53 AM   #129 
  - Seems like to me  gaspee   May-22-08 12:05 PM   #135 
     - DU makes me uncomfortable these days  gaspee   May-22-08 12:08 PM   #136 
        - In the words of another DUer  Bluenorthwest   May-22-08 12:21 PM   #140 
           - historically that's not exactly accurate -- homosexuality as we now  xchrom   May-22-08 02:19 PM   #141 
  - I have posted a follow-up OP here:  Skinner   May-22-08 03:43 PM   #142 

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