Donate to DU!
Democratic Underground Latest Threads
Latest
Greatest Threads
Greatest
Lobby
Lobby
Journals
Journals
Search
Search
Options
Options
Help
Help
Login
Login
Google

Reply #31: Well, no. It's not a "grand conspiracy". [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
First thread | Last thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Education Donate to DU
Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Apr-13-09 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
31. Well, no. It's not a "grand conspiracy".
Edited on Mon Apr-13-09 10:59 AM by Smarmie Doofus
>>>>>Do you honestly believe this is part of a grand, bipartisan conspiracy to demonize teachers? Frankly, it would not and could not happen - they are one of the few professions that are mostly beyond reproach politically. If you're anywhere near smart, you don't attack teachers.>>>>

But "beyond reproach politically"? Wha? Whenever these issues are discussed in MSM the phrase "has the courage to defy the teachers' unions" ( or it's equivalent) is so commonplace it's already passed "cliche status".

The *mythical* teacher is beyond reproach. Bette Davis in the "Corn is Green", is beyond reproach. Mr. Chips, the White Shadow, Gabe Kaplan and Leave it to Beaver's Miss Landers: they're all "beyond reproach." Real-life teachers who organize for fair compensation, reasonable job security and in order to practice their profession without undue (*undue*) interference from non - pedagogues are an entirely different matter. 1. They cost money. 2. No living human can match the self sacrifice and saintly dedication of the Mr. Chips and the other above-mentioned FICTIONAL characters.


>>>My problem with the teachers unions on these issues is that instead of pushing for those changes and pushing for better leadership, they too wind up taking the path of least resistance and just argue against the very measures we need to improve education. In this regard, they are no better than the principals and administrators. Everyone involved is playing the "cover your own ass" game and passing blame for the problems on someone else - ultimately, they're all passing the buck to parents, which is easy because there's no unified voice of parents to fight back.>>>>

To the extent that the above is true, I agree. I'm just not sure it's true. There is, I'll grant, a kind of paranoia in the profession that may be reflected in what you are describing. "Paranoia" may be the wrong word; perhaps a "very heightened degree of vigilance" is what it really is. There's a sense among many that EVERY educational reform is part of a larger plan to weaken and essentially *break* the teachers' unions and professional organizations. The fact that the educational "reform" movement is led , in part, by RW ideological fanatics who HATE unions and HATE the very idea of public education on general principal may account for the "heightened state of vigilance". But they "are what they are".

The "reformers" that bug me the most are nominally progressive types like Obama, Bloommerg, ( actually I might just as easily put him in the *first* camp) Duncan , Rhee, Caroline Kennedy, et al, whose life experience and current circumstances are so laughably removed from the reality of public education.

The machinations and posturings of NEITHER wing of this reform movement is likely to result in a better public school system. The first faction is too emotional and the second faction is too indiffernet... since nothing that happens to the public school system ( it exists for the "little people" , you realize) is going to gore, or NOT gore their particular ox.

In a sense , the political dynamic that has taken over the debate is a lot like the abortion wars. A lot of folks are pro-choice because they don't trust the motives of the anti-choicers. Not because they regard the complex ethical issues associated with legalized abortion as a slam dunk.

Something similar seems to be happening in this debate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
  Bush profiteers collect billions from No Child Left Behind Reader Rabbit  Apr-09-09 01:59 PM   #0 
   I won't dispute the problems with SES, but the testing is needed, and then some.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-09-09 02:12 PM   #1 
   We went from "teaching the kids" to "teaching the tests"...  DCKit   Apr-09-09 02:30 PM   #2 
   That's utter BS.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-09-09 04:02 PM   #5 
      There are areas of education where a child can be excelling that  rateyes   Apr-09-09 04:06 PM   #7 
      I'd sooner test for those things than stop testing reading and math proficiency.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-09-09 04:27 PM   #8 
         No one I know in education wants to 'not test'. That's a 'straw man'...  YvonneCa   Apr-10-09 10:48 PM   #18 
      You might have to be familiar with public school culture....  Smarmie Doofus   Apr-10-09 09:40 AM   #12 
      For what purpose would this data be politicized?  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-10-09 01:27 PM   #15 
         For political advantage.  Smarmie Doofus   Apr-10-09 07:20 PM   #17 
         Well, no. It's not a "grand conspiracy".  Smarmie Doofus   Apr-13-09 10:57 AM   #31 
      You seem to think many here are against testing. That is not...  YvonneCa   Apr-11-09 02:14 PM   #24 
   Your claim "every single civil rights organization hails NCLB" is a bit misleading.  Reader Rabbit   Apr-09-09 05:54 PM   #9 
   The testing is as corrupt as the politicians who mandate it.  LWolf   Apr-12-09 06:10 PM   #29 
   Another thought about those 'vast inequities' exposed by...  YvonneCa   Apr-14-09 03:37 PM   #33 
   Making tests matter, and looking at teachers differently...  faeryfaye59   May-17-09 11:19 PM   #34 
   K & R...  dixiegrrrrl   Apr-09-09 02:45 PM   #3 
   money was the whole point  mopinko   Apr-09-09 02:55 PM   #4 
      And yet Duncan supports nearly all other aspects of NCLB.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-09-09 04:04 PM   #6 
         where do you get that?  mopinko   Apr-10-09 12:07 AM   #10 
            From him, directly. (nt)  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-10-09 07:11 AM   #11 
               in your phone calls?  mopinko   Apr-10-09 11:55 AM   #13 
                  Group meeting.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-10-09 01:04 PM   #14 
                     Ok sure  mopinko   Apr-10-09 05:43 PM   #16 
                     I don't require you to believe me. (nt)  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-11-09 10:48 AM   #20 
                     Well I hope he includes teachers,..not just unions...TEACHERS...  YvonneCa   Apr-10-09 10:59 PM   #19 
                        He has a long track record of including teachers.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-11-09 10:49 AM   #21 
                        And when he includes them does he...  YvonneCa   Apr-11-09 01:47 PM   #23 
                           AFT seemed to think so. (nt)  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-11-09 05:59 PM   #25 
                              Now I'm unsure if you are ...  YvonneCa   Apr-11-09 06:24 PM   #26 
                                 How you would measure such a thing, I wouldn't know.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-12-09 03:11 AM   #27 
                                    Start by reading this ...  YvonneCa   Apr-12-09 04:51 PM   #28 
                                       Okay but listening to you does not mean rubber stamp everything you say.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-13-09 07:10 AM   #30 
                                          I'd never want anything I say to be rubber-stamped...  YvonneCa   Apr-14-09 03:16 PM   #32 
                        in chicago, the unions and the teachers are not exactly the same things.  mopinko   Apr-11-09 11:13 AM   #22 
 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Education Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals  |  Links  |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2009 Democratic Underground, LLC