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Reply #12: You might have to be familiar with public school culture.... [View All]

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Smarmie Doofus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. You might have to be familiar with public school culture....
>>>>>And as far as "teaching to the test" goes, it's only a problem where you have a horrible, bubble-sheet only test, which the vast majority of people that back NCLB would argue is the next frontier for reform.>>>>>>

.... to understand this but it is, in fact, a HUGE problem, bubble sheets, or no bubble sheets. I'm in NY. Part MC, part extended response. Don't know anything about any of the other states, but the teachers here are under enormous pressure to teach to the test. 'Cause principals are under enormous pressure to produce statistical improvement. 'Cause principals are essentially no longer unionized professionals ( they are *nominally* but they really are not.) but rather mini CEO's hired from year to year. The panic over testing and "data" that their level trickles down in a most predicatably Republican way.

Additional consequences of testing mania: the "data" is unreliable. You cannot collect relaibale data in the highly politically charged system that exists here. The reason is simple: with so much at stake, people *cheat*.

Also, to the very best of my knowledge, no teacher union is against intelligent assessment; I certainly am not. ( Why in the world would we be?) We are against the POLITICIZATION of assessment. We are aginst tainted testing. We are against ersatz data. We are against LOST TEACHING TIME ( as in *real* teaching time.)

>>>>>States like Massachusetts or Minnesota that have extended response tests perform far better than states like North Carolina, which only pays $.05 per student for the tests and has only multiple choice.>>>>>>>

How nice for those states.
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  -Bush profiteers collect billions from No Child Left Behind Reader Rabbit  Apr-09-09 12:59 PM   #0 
  - I won't dispute the problems with SES, but the testing is needed, and then some.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-09-09 01:12 PM   #1 
  - We went from "teaching the kids" to "teaching the tests"...  DCKit   Apr-09-09 01:30 PM   #2 
  - That's utter BS.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-09-09 03:02 PM   #5 
     - There are areas of education where a child can be excelling that  rateyes   Apr-09-09 03:06 PM   #7 
     - I'd sooner test for those things than stop testing reading and math proficiency.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-09-09 03:27 PM   #8 
        - No one I know in education wants to 'not test'. That's a 'straw man'...  YvonneCa   Apr-10-09 09:48 PM   #18 
     - You might have to be familiar with public school culture....  Smarmie Doofus   Apr-10-09 08:40 AM   #12 
     - For what purpose would this data be politicized?  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-10-09 12:27 PM   #15 
        - For political advantage.  Smarmie Doofus   Apr-10-09 06:20 PM   #17 
        - Well, no. It's not a "grand conspiracy".  Smarmie Doofus   Apr-13-09 09:57 AM   #31 
     - You seem to think many here are against testing. That is not...  YvonneCa   Apr-11-09 01:14 PM   #24 
  - Your claim "every single civil rights organization hails NCLB" is a bit misleading.  Reader Rabbit   Apr-09-09 04:54 PM   #9 
  - The testing is as corrupt as the politicians who mandate it.  LWolf   Apr-12-09 05:10 PM   #29 
  - Another thought about those 'vast inequities' exposed by...  YvonneCa   Apr-14-09 02:37 PM   #33 
  - Making tests matter, and looking at teachers differently...  faeryfaye59   May-17-09 10:19 PM   #34 
  - K & R...  dixiegrrrrl   Apr-09-09 01:45 PM   #3 
  - money was the whole point  mopinko   Apr-09-09 01:55 PM   #4 
     - And yet Duncan supports nearly all other aspects of NCLB.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-09-09 03:04 PM   #6 
        - where do you get that?  mopinko   Apr-09-09 11:07 PM   #10 
           - From him, directly. (nt)  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-10-09 06:11 AM   #11 
              - in your phone calls?  mopinko   Apr-10-09 10:55 AM   #13 
                 - Group meeting.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-10-09 12:04 PM   #14 
                    - Ok sure  mopinko   Apr-10-09 04:43 PM   #16 
                    - I don't require you to believe me. (nt)  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-11-09 09:48 AM   #20 
                    - Well I hope he includes teachers,..not just unions...TEACHERS...  YvonneCa   Apr-10-09 09:59 PM   #19 
                       - He has a long track record of including teachers.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-11-09 09:49 AM   #21 
                       - And when he includes them does he...  YvonneCa   Apr-11-09 12:47 PM   #23 
                          - AFT seemed to think so. (nt)  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-11-09 04:59 PM   #25 
                             - Now I'm unsure if you are ...  YvonneCa   Apr-11-09 05:24 PM   #26 
                                - How you would measure such a thing, I wouldn't know.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-12-09 02:11 AM   #27 
                                   - Start by reading this ...  YvonneCa   Apr-12-09 03:51 PM   #28 
                                      - Okay but listening to you does not mean rubber stamp everything you say.  Nicholas D Wolfwood   Apr-13-09 06:10 AM   #30 
                                         - I'd never want anything I say to be rubber-stamped...  YvonneCa   Apr-14-09 02:16 PM   #32 
                       - in chicago, the unions and the teachers are not exactly the same things.  mopinko   Apr-11-09 10:13 AM   #22 

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