| 118. So I Take It That There Is Some Crucible In Which You Boil It Down |
|
I say I'm a Christian
You say, hmmmph, we'll see
You watch my actions to see if they conform with your ideas of what a Christian is or isn't.
If I don't measure up, then I must not be a Christian.
I'm sorry Kwassa, if this is the process you go through, then I don't see how it is anything but a judgmental process (not just using judgment) because all of us will fall short of being perfect.
Now, I think the Hitler thing has been beat to death.
There is no doubt that Christians (at least this one) don't want to claim him as their own.
Atheists (I assume, and I realize I can't speak for atheists) would probably not want to claim him.
Theists of all kinds would doubtfully want to claim him.
Now there are some "Christians" (they profess Christ to be their savior and believe they are following the bible) who do think at least the principles of Hitler, white, Aryan supremacy, is right. I don't know if they claim Hitler as one of them or not. If you don't believe me, check out Elohim City, on the border of Arkansas and Oklahoma. Tim McVeigh even stopped off there briefly on his way to blow people up. (or shortly before that trip)
I don't like the kind of Christian Hitler was, (if he claimed to be a Christian and I don't honestly know if he did or not) and denounce him as a terrible human being, and a piss poor example of what a Christian is.
But Hitler may have called himself a Christian, and may or may not have believed he was a Christian.
|
| -Why do some atheists care so much as to who is Christian or isn't? |
kwassa |
Jun-08-06 08:17 AM |
#0 |
-
To prove a point. |
HypnoToad |
Jun-08-06 08:18 AM |
#1 |
-
Same reason Christians relentlessly define atheists |
cosmik debris |
Jun-08-06 08:22 AM |
#2 |
 -
Interesting that you define Christians and atheists |
ayeshahaqqiqa |
Jun-08-06 09:03 AM |
#23 |
  -
Just my observation |
cosmik debris |
Jun-08-06 09:20 AM |
#31 |
  -
I would think so, too |
Goblinmonger |
Jun-08-06 09:25 AM |
#34 |
  -
That's what I hoped, as well. nt |
JerseygirlCT |
Jun-08-06 12:27 PM |
#46 |
 -
Why do they have to be adversaries? |
musical_soul |
Jun-12-06 02:11 PM |
#176 |
-
Religion is evil and needs to be stopped |
afrosia |
Jun-08-06 08:23 AM |
#3 |
 -
But I know many people with no religion who are miserable |
johnnie |
Jun-08-06 08:25 AM |
#7 |
  -
Vice versa |
afrosia |
Jun-08-06 08:28 AM |
#8 |
 -
Exactly n/t |
johnnie |
Jun-08-06 08:31 AM |
#10 |
 -
Hey, welcome to DU! |
Orrex |
Jun-08-06 08:48 AM |
#18 |
 -
Welcome to DU |
TallahasseeGrannie |
Jun-08-06 08:58 AM |
#20 |
  -
Apologies |
afrosia |
Jun-08-06 09:08 AM |
#24 |
 -
Welcome to DU! |
ayeshahaqqiqa |
Jun-08-06 09:08 AM |
#25 |
  -
Yes |
afrosia |
Jun-08-06 09:22 AM |
#33 |
 -
Yeah, my church has an environmental action group, lots of out GLBT |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-09-06 12:30 PM |
#61 |
 -
That brush must be heavy - it's so wide. |
JerseygirlCT |
Jun-08-06 12:28 PM |
#47 |
 -
SOME religions, I think, to be fair. |
Zhade |
Jun-09-06 03:20 PM |
#64 |
-
Why are some Christians so obsessed with what atheists think of them? |
smoogatz |
Jun-08-06 08:23 AM |
#4 |
 -
Well, suppose someone were to say, "Smoogatz is a creep because s/he |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-09-06 12:33 PM |
#62 |
-
Uh huh, except that analagy does not stand, as name is not related to |
Random_Australian |
Jun-10-06 08:22 AM |
#83 |
-
For the same reason most people do this sort of thing |
johnnie |
Jun-08-06 08:24 AM |
#5 |
 -
And those beliefs would be...? |
Zhade |
Jun-09-06 03:21 PM |
#65 |
-
I guess it would be whatever beliefs they have |
johnnie |
Jun-10-06 10:20 AM |
#84 |
-
I'M an atheist, and your words don't describe me. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 03:02 PM |
#89 |
-
You don't have any beliefs at all? |
johnnie |
Jun-10-06 03:55 PM |
#98 |
-
Of course I have beliefs, just not what you described. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 04:03 PM |
#99 |
-
Well, everything is a process, even religion |
johnnie |
Jun-10-06 04:21 PM |
#100 |
-
Sigh. You're not getting my meaning. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 04:54 PM |
#101 |
-
But see, to me science and atheism *is* a belief system |
johnnie |
Jun-10-06 05:10 PM |
#102 |
-
Some dictionaries also define atheist as "immoral". |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 06:01 PM |
#103 |
-
*sigh* |
johnnie |
Jun-10-06 06:20 PM |
#104 |
-
I don't think you need to apologize, I'm not offended. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 07:20 PM |
#105 |
-
Try googling Hitler and Atheist some time |
Caution |
Jun-08-06 08:24 AM |
#6 |
-
I don't really care who is Christian or not. |
jojo54 |
Jun-08-06 08:31 AM |
#9 |
-
That's a big question |
Orrex |
Jun-08-06 08:38 AM |
#11 |
 -
Thinking Hitler is an atheist is simply a lack of historical knowledge |
kwassa |
Jun-08-06 09:29 AM |
#35 |
-
But consider |
Orrex |
Jun-08-06 09:57 AM |
#41 |
-
It's the HYPOCRISY, Grasshopper |
Warpy |
Jun-08-06 08:43 AM |
#12 |
-
It's the hypocrisy |
Canuckistanian |
Jun-08-06 08:46 AM |
#13 |
 -
Couldn't agree more |
afrosia |
Jun-08-06 09:18 AM |
#29 |
-
The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus |
Canuckistanian |
Jun-08-06 09:53 AM |
#39 |
-
Because when we discussion religion with people |
Goblinmonger |
Jun-08-06 08:46 AM |
#14 |
 -
Good answer |
TallahasseeGrannie |
Jun-08-06 09:09 AM |
#26 |
-
Because many of you can't admit there are bad christians |
jonnyblitz |
Jun-08-06 08:46 AM |
#15 |
-
To underline the hypocricy of some people |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jun-08-06 08:47 AM |
#16 |
 -
I've known some real people in my time |
ayeshahaqqiqa |
Jun-08-06 09:12 AM |
#28 |
-
Raise above what divides us, yes. But... |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jun-08-06 09:52 AM |
#38 |
-
Christians are the one who are |
moobu2 |
Jun-08-06 08:47 AM |
#17 |
 -
Of course. |
afrosia |
Jun-08-06 08:57 AM |
#19 |
-
Most atheists would welcome all Xians coming around to the atheist view, |
John1956PA |
Jun-08-06 09:02 AM |
#21 |
-
Here's the thing |
TallahasseeGrannie |
Jun-08-06 09:02 AM |
#22 |
-
Actually it's the complete opposite. |
trotsky |
Jun-08-06 09:10 AM |
#27 |
 -
Not exactly |
kwassa |
Jun-08-06 09:22 AM |
#32 |
-
As an atheist, I don't give a crap who is a Christian. |
Goblinmonger |
Jun-08-06 09:29 AM |
#36 |
-
So that you can't keep moving the goalposts. |
trotsky |
Jun-08-06 09:55 AM |
#40 |
-
"anyone who says they are a Christian is one" |
GreenArrow |
Jun-09-06 08:04 AM |
#53 |
-
Oh, no, don't take that standpoint |
Goblinmonger |
Jun-09-06 08:13 AM |
#55 |
 -
not sure where you're getting the slippery slope from |
GreenArrow |
Jun-09-06 09:45 AM |
#56 |
-
Name a famous "bad-apple christian" |
Goblinmonger |
Jun-09-06 10:04 AM |
#57 |
 -
there are 2 billion Christians in the world today |
GreenArrow |
Jun-09-06 10:51 AM |
#58 |
  -
Hmmm |
trotsky |
Jun-09-06 11:07 AM |
#59 |
 -
in practical terms, |
GreenArrow |
Jun-09-06 09:36 PM |
#74 |
 -
Wish I had a nickel for every time I've been through this. |
trotsky |
Jun-10-06 08:02 AM |
#82 |
 -
I wish you did too! |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 03:09 PM |
#90 |
 -
The godhatesfags guy is |
Proud_Democratt |
Jun-09-06 05:03 PM |
#69 |
-
"Some people who claim to be Christian are lying about it." |
Zhade |
Jun-09-06 03:40 PM |
#66 |
-
Which is more reasonable to expect? |
GreenArrow |
Jun-09-06 08:21 PM |
#71 |
-
He never, EVER implied that none did, just that you do not now which |
Random_Australian |
Jun-09-06 08:28 PM |
#72 |
 -
"he never implied..." it certainly seemed that way to me |
GreenArrow |
Jun-09-06 09:48 PM |
#75 |
  -
He is saying, you do not know who is lying, and who is not. |
Random_Australian |
Jun-09-06 09:49 PM |
#76 |
   -
and I say I can |
GreenArrow |
Jun-09-06 10:30 PM |
#78 |
  -
Alright then, go ahead, tell us how you can without reading minds..... |
Random_Australian |
Jun-09-06 10:33 PM |
#80 |
  -
Please show me how you - and I - can do so. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 03:13 PM |
#93 |
  -
Did this word from his post not show up on your monitor ?: |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-09-06 10:02 PM |
#77 |
 -
yes, I saw it |
GreenArrow |
Jun-09-06 10:32 PM |
#79 |
 -
Basic logic - if something is possible, it CAN'T also be impossible. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 03:11 PM |
#92 |
 -
Thank you, RA. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 03:10 PM |
#91 |
-
Don't put words in my mouth. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 02:59 PM |
#88 |
-
Well, Other Than Mind Reading, How Else Can You Tell |
Southpawkicker |
Jun-09-06 10:49 PM |
#81 |
-
SPK, I'm glad to see you responding to this. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 03:14 PM |
#94 |
-
Because Hypocrisy sucks |
iconoclastNYC |
Jun-08-06 09:18 AM |
#30 |
-
We win! |
afrosia |
Jun-08-06 09:44 AM |
#37 |
 -
Again, please realize you are talking about only one concept of God |
ayeshahaqqiqa |
Jun-08-06 10:24 AM |
#43 |
-
maybe because those who espouse their |
ellenfl |
Jun-08-06 10:15 AM |
#42 |
 -
The Taliban and the Talibornagains |
ayeshahaqqiqa |
Jun-08-06 10:25 AM |
#44 |
  -
Heh! |
Brentos |
Jun-09-06 12:21 PM |
#60 |
 -
They keep doling out...death to |
Proud_Democratt |
Jun-09-06 05:07 PM |
#70 |
-
I think the negative effects of religion |
ozone_man |
Jun-08-06 11:39 AM |
#45 |
-
The Hitler-Christian issue is about... |
Proud_Democratt |
Jun-08-06 05:00 PM |
#48 |
 -
It's Also, Who Would Want To Claim Him! n/t |
Southpawkicker |
Jun-08-06 08:45 PM |
#50 |
 -
more fundamentally, Hitler was a Human Being. |
GreenArrow |
Jun-09-06 08:12 AM |
#54 |
 -
Who says he's an atheist? |
Dorian Gray |
Jun-11-06 02:06 PM |
#111 |
-
I Think It's Just In The Air Or Something? |
Southpawkicker |
Jun-08-06 08:44 PM |
#49 |
-
We're worried about our christian brothers and sisters! |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-08-06 11:04 PM |
#51 |
-
We aren't the ones with the obsession |
BuffyTheFundieSlayer |
Jun-08-06 11:44 PM |
#52 |
-
So people like you can't get away with the NTS fallacy. |
Zhade |
Jun-09-06 02:28 PM |
#63 |
 -
GAH, typo. |
Zhade |
Jun-09-06 03:51 PM |
#67 |
-
LOL!!! (scene from my play) |
Evoman |
Jun-09-06 04:38 PM |
#68 |
 -
I sense lunch in your future. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 03:17 PM |
#95 |
-
I like to know who's going to try to kill me. |
CarbonDate |
Jun-09-06 09:31 PM |
#73 |
-
You're the one who cares, kwassa. |
catbert836 |
Jun-10-06 11:27 AM |
#85 |
 -
Sorry, but the only ones insisting they know the definition are atheists |
kwassa |
Jun-10-06 01:12 PM |
#86 |
-
Bwahahahaha! |
catbert836 |
Jun-10-06 02:46 PM |
#87 |
 -
It IS pretty funny to watch him flail. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 03:26 PM |
#97 |
  -
logic error |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 12:23 PM |
#108 |
 -
Keep telling yourself that. |
Zhade |
Jun-13-06 02:22 PM |
#193 |
 -
The errors in application of the No True Scotsman fallacy |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 12:09 PM |
#106 |
-
ROFLMAO! Christians are used as examples in the DEFINITION of the fallacy! |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 01:46 PM |
#109 |
-
You need to read the Wikipedia definition carefully, which you haven't |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 04:26 PM |
#113 |
 -
Fascinating. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 04:37 PM |
#114 |
  -
You must spend much time looking in the mirror, I would think |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 06:16 PM |
#116 |
 -
That's it? |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 07:43 PM |
#125 |
 -
You should be. |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:11 PM |
#141 |
 -
Hitler was a christian and babies are atheists. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 09:29 PM |
#146 |
 -
This seems like a catechism for some atheists |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:36 PM |
#149 |
 -
Atheists don't have beliefs. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 09:43 PM |
#156 |
 -
Yeah, whatever, just a lot of IDEAS that seem identical. |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:53 PM |
#160 |
 -
"Yeah, whatever" ??? |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 09:55 PM |
#161 |
 -
Hey! Still waiting for your rebuttal on my analysis of No True Scotsman! |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:58 PM |
#163 |
 -
"No true christian would be a Nazi" = No True Scotsman fallacy. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 10:03 PM |
#166 |
 -
I counter your NTS Fallacy Fallacy with the NTS Fallacy Fallacy Fallacy! |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-12-06 12:45 AM |
#169 |
 -
Best write up of NTS ever! |
salvorhardin |
Jun-12-06 12:11 PM |
#172 |
  -
Isn't it though? |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-12-06 08:32 PM |
#179 |
  -
I think you might be on to something |
salvorhardin |
Jun-12-06 09:06 PM |
#184 |
  -
I'll bring the Not True Hossenpfeffer ! |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-12-06 09:15 PM |
#185 |
  -
Aiiee! You better not let spotted elephant hear you say that. |
salvorhardin |
Jun-12-06 09:34 PM |
#186 |
  -
But I was thinking of her! |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-12-06 09:37 PM |
#187 |
 -
Cute, but he doesn't rebut my argument either. Nor have you. |
kwassa |
Jun-12-06 02:43 PM |
#177 |
 -
You really believe in your no "true Christian" fallacy, don't you kwassa? |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-12-06 08:36 PM |
#180 |
 -
I disagree, my belief is quite logical. |
kwassa |
Jun-13-06 08:04 AM |
#190 |
 -
If your beliefs are so logical, why won't you answer trotsky? |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-13-06 07:50 PM |
#194 |
 -
Here's where your defense of the fallacy fails, kwassa. |
trotsky |
Jun-12-06 12:53 PM |
#173 |
-
Thank you, trotsky. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-12-06 08:41 PM |
#181 |
-
Does the "No Scotsman" fallacy apply here? |
WoodrowFan |
Jun-13-06 07:08 AM |
#188 |
-
You're not a Christian, because you judge, and that's un-Christ-like. |
Zhade |
Jun-10-06 03:19 PM |
#96 |
-
Define "Christian" to your heart's content |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 12:19 PM |
#107 |
-
"It seems that some atheists seek an absolutist definition" |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 01:56 PM |
#110 |
-
Some Christians use the same definition you do, many don't. |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 04:15 PM |
#112 |
-
Many do. And you have no way of knowing who is lying about their beliefs. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 04:43 PM |
#115 |
 -
Not true. |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 06:24 PM |
#117 |
-
So I Take It That There Is Some Crucible In Which You Boil It Down |
Southpawkicker |
Jun-11-06 06:34 PM |
#118 |
 -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jun-11-06 06:56 PM |
#119 |
-
So Now I'm Not A Christian In Your Opinion? |
Southpawkicker |
Jun-11-06 07:09 PM |
#120 |
-
Why would you think so? |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 07:15 PM |
#121 |
-
That's Not What You Just Said |
Southpawkicker |
Jun-11-06 07:19 PM |
#122 |
-
That is what I just said. |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 07:37 PM |
#123 |
-
Your Response Didn't Seem Like a "Hypothetical" |
Southpawkicker |
Jun-11-06 07:41 PM |
#124 |
-
Sorry, my manner is cut-and-dried sometimes |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 07:47 PM |
#126 |
-
A diehard proponent of the No True Scotsman fallacy lecturing about logic? |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 07:52 PM |
#127 |
 -
Still waiting for your rebuttal on my analysis of No True Scotsman |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 08:15 PM |
#128 |
-
What analysis? You are the posterboy for the NTS fallacy, kwassa. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 08:21 PM |
#129 |
-
Let's see if you can post a reasoned rebuttal |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 08:26 PM |
#130 |
-
There's nothing to refute. You said you don't believe in the NTS fallacy. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 08:34 PM |
#131 |
-
I've specifically refuted it, and you can't rebut, apparently. |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 08:37 PM |
#133 |
-
Look into the mirror: |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 08:45 PM |
#135 |
-
I'll post it for the third time, since you didn't get it the last two |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 08:48 PM |
#136 |
-
I got it the first two times-It's just as ridiculous the third time around |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 08:59 PM |
#137 |
-
I knew you couldn't refute it. You are defeated once again. |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:08 PM |
#139 |
-
Why that's just as brilliant as your statement about Nazis and christians. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 09:27 PM |
#143 |
-
Still waiting ........ no rebuttal from BMUS, of course |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:29 PM |
#145 |
-
As before, give me something to rebut and I'll comply. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 09:39 PM |
#151 |
-
Still waiting .... no rebuttal from BMUS |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:41 PM |
#154 |
-
How does one rebut a personal belief? |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 09:51 PM |
#159 |
-
Still haven't rebutted the argument. |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:55 PM |
#162 |
-
There is no argument. There is the No True Scotsman fallacy and |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 10:01 PM |
#165 |
-
Good night, I've had enough of your avoidance. |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 10:00 PM |
#164 |
-
Babies are atheists. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-11-06 10:04 PM |
#168 |
-
Repeating falsehoods hundreds of times doesn't make them true |
kwassa |
Jun-12-06 02:46 PM |
#178 |
-
You mean like the No True Christian fallacy? |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-12-06 08:43 PM |
#182 |
-
I disagree |
kwassa |
Jun-13-06 08:14 AM |
#191 |
-
kwassa, please see post #173. |
trotsky |
Jun-13-06 08:40 AM |
#192 |
-
Answer trotsky. |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-13-06 07:52 PM |
#195 |
-
Your position seems innately hypocritical |
salvorhardin |
Jun-11-06 08:35 PM |
#132 |
-
"Innately hypocritical"? |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 08:43 PM |
#134 |
-
So you just have no objective standards whatsoever? |
salvorhardin |
Jun-11-06 09:07 PM |
#138 |
-
What in the world are you talking about? |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:10 PM |
#140 |
-
Well then, can you enumerate your standards? |
salvorhardin |
Jun-11-06 09:23 PM |
#142 |
-
I apologize, because I DID NOT judge Southpawkicker not ... |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:27 PM |
#144 |
-
Behavior implies action |
salvorhardin |
Jun-11-06 09:30 PM |
#147 |
-
You are following the wrong tack |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:32 PM |
#148 |
-
If no behavior is exclusive to Christians |
salvorhardin |
Jun-11-06 09:36 PM |
#150 |
-
I already said it. |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:39 PM |
#152 |
-
So your standard for judging whether a person is a Christian or not |
salvorhardin |
Jun-11-06 09:41 PM |
#153 |
-
Yes |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:43 PM |
#155 |
-
You agree with both those statements? n/t |
salvorhardin |
Jun-11-06 09:44 PM |
#157 |
-
You added the second after I responded to the first |
kwassa |
Jun-11-06 09:49 PM |
#158 |
-
How do you gage their honesty? n/t |
salvorhardin |
Jun-11-06 10:03 PM |
#167 |
-
The Bible says: |
CarbonDate |
Jun-12-06 04:34 AM |
#170 |
-
Militant atheism is closely akin to fundamentalism. |
Vidar |
Jun-12-06 09:02 AM |
#171 |
-
What's "Militant Atheism"? |
catbert836 |
Jun-12-06 01:09 PM |
#174 |
-
Onward Atheist Soldiers, Marching off to War ..... |
kwassa |
Jun-12-06 01:20 PM |
#175 |
-
The belief that no evidence for gods exists, god-dammit!!! |
beam me up scottie |
Jun-12-06 08:45 PM |
#183 |
-
Since no one has ever offered up a definition when I've asked... |
trotsky |
Jun-13-06 07:32 AM |
#189 |