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Major Nikon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-30-11 10:47 AM
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Was Jesus a scam artist?
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Around the time of Jesus, the Jews were desperately looking for a Messiah to relieve them from Roman oppression, and most Christians seem to agree that Jesus was indeed that Messiah. However, Jesus wasn't the only person vying for that title. There were plenty of them during that time (as there still is today). So what made Jesus different, and why did he collect such a following? Well for one thing, at that time in order to establish street cred as the Messiah, you had to do miracles. Who was going to follow someone as the Messiah if they couldn't demonstrate power over heaven and earth? So in the gospel of John, it's written that there were so many miracles they didn't have enough paper and time to write them all down. ;&version=ESV

There is no other historical account of the miracles of Jesus. The Jews and the Romans were pretty good at writing stuff down, and particularly historically significant events. So here you have a guy that is wandering around parts of Israel (which isn't a big area to begin with), performing miracle after miracle, and nobody but the followers of Jesus seems to be writing it down. Some theologians have dealt with this discrepancy by saying the miracles never happened and they were simply poetic or legendary in nature. In other words, they were metaphors. This too doesn't pass the smell test. If they were a metaphor, why claim there were so many of them you couldn't write them all down? Sounds more like they are trying to say Jesus was doing little else besides performing miracles. Even if you believe the metaphor explanation, you still have to ask yourself why they were included in the bible in the first place and were clearly written in non-metaphorical terms as if they really did happen. You still have people today that genuinely believe the miracles of Christ genuinely happened, and it's not that big of a stretch to imagine early Christians did also. It's pretty hard to believe that they were included for any reason other than to establish the credibility of Jesus. So really the only conclusion you can reasonably draw from is was either Jesus and his followers engaged in duplicitous acts in order to gain credibility (which seems likely during that time) or those men who actually wrote the bible included them in order to gain credibility. Either way that makes someone a scam artist or the miracles did actually happen and somehow (miraculously?) there were no other written accounts.
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  -Was Jesus a scam artist? Major Nikon  Nov-30-11 10:47 AM   #0 
  - I don't know, but I'm kind of wondering about the folks who wrote books about...  MarkCharles   Nov-30-11 10:53 AM   #1 
  - "WHY WASN'T THERE ONE PERSON ALIVE WHO COULD WRITE ABOUT HIM while he was alive"  MilesColtrane   Nov-30-11 10:59 AM   #3 
     - They weren't afraid of cultivating their own followings  Major Nikon   Nov-30-11 11:07 AM   #6 
     - The Romans were meticulous record keepers.  trotsky   Nov-30-11 11:08 AM   #7 
        - Yes, Literacy in the Roman provinces and within the Jewish leadership was  MarkCharles   Nov-30-11 11:14 AM   #8 
        - From my readings,  ewagner   Nov-30-11 11:18 AM   #9 
        - Could you cite some of those records, please?  okasha   Dec-03-11 03:43 PM   #47 
           - LMAO  trotsky   Dec-05-11 10:08 AM   #49 
              - In other words,  okasha   Dec-05-11 03:28 PM   #53 
                 - In other words, I meet like with like.  trotsky   Dec-05-11 06:14 PM   #54 
                    - All anyone has to do to document this talking point  okasha   Dec-08-11 02:32 PM   #61 
  - question....  ewagner   Nov-30-11 10:57 AM   #2 
  - That's my understanding  Major Nikon   Nov-30-11 11:03 AM   #5 
  - Jesus was real. The miracles were real.  rrneck   Nov-30-11 11:01 AM   #4 
  - bible = true. bible = book. therefore anything in a book must true. hmmm nt  msongs   Nov-30-11 11:34 AM   #10 
  - When Jesus comes back  rrneck   Nov-30-11 11:38 AM   #11 
  - Wait, what????? BLASPHEMER!!!!!!!!!!!  Marrah_G   Dec-06-11 06:55 AM   #57 
  - It's always struck me as odd as well...that a person creating this many miracles  Old and In the Way   Nov-30-11 12:53 PM   #12 
  - yes, but further along that point  deacon_sephiroth   Nov-30-11 01:11 PM   #13 
  - Yes. he actually retired to a comfortable life in Nigeria.  rug   Nov-30-11 01:13 PM   #14 
  - So HE is the one that keep sending me those emails about my lottery winnings?  cleanhippie   Nov-30-11 01:14 PM   #15 
  - Please  edhopper   Nov-30-11 01:52 PM   #16 
     - If you consider the OP to be "a very legitimate question" you may reconsider your objectivity.  rug   Nov-30-11 01:54 PM   #17 
        - Is not religion strong enough to withstand each and every question raised?  MarkCharles   Nov-30-11 02:03 PM   #18 
        - Sure it is.  rug   Nov-30-11 02:09 PM   #19 
           - So YOU are the one we need to consult to determine if a question is  MarkCharles   Nov-30-11 02:46 PM   #21 
              - But he was the son of God  edhopper   Nov-30-11 03:42 PM   #22 
              - Sarcasm appreciated. I really have more questions about those who  MarkCharles   Nov-30-11 04:17 PM   #23 
                 - A parallel would be  edhopper   Nov-30-11 04:43 PM   #24 
                    - Good parallels! Thanks! n/t  MarkCharles   Nov-30-11 04:49 PM   #25 
              - How astute. That's exactly what I said.  rug   Nov-30-11 05:21 PM   #27 
        - It's been a question that has been asked for at least the last 200 years  Major Nikon   Nov-30-11 02:17 PM   #20 
           - Really? Point me to the person in the 19th century who asked if he was a scam artist.  rug   Nov-30-11 05:24 PM   #28 
              - Albert Schweitzer  Major Nikon   Nov-30-11 05:55 PM   #30 
              - That's questioning his existence, not asking if he was a scam artist.  rug   Nov-30-11 05:57 PM   #31 
              - Sigh  Major Nikon   Nov-30-11 06:31 PM   #33 
                 - No need to sigh. I got the point a long time ago.  rug   Nov-30-11 06:43 PM   #34 
                    - Sigh  Major Nikon   Nov-30-11 07:30 PM   #36 
                       - Have you actually read Schweitzer? First, his book was written 100 years ago, not 200.  struggle4progress   Dec-05-11 10:50 PM   #55 
              - XX: Results  struggle4progress   Nov-30-11 06:17 PM   #32 
                 - Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!  deacon_sephiroth   Dec-05-11 09:52 AM   #48 
                    - JS Bach's Liebster Jesu, wir sind hier (Albert Schweitzer )  struggle4progress   Dec-05-11 02:18 PM   #51 
                    - Nobel Peace Prize 1952  struggle4progress   Dec-05-11 02:30 PM   #52 
                       - yes..........  deacon_sephiroth   Dec-06-11 09:03 AM   #60 
              - Thomas Paine seems to have come close  edhopper   Dec-01-11 12:46 PM   #42 
  - Maybe some people who weren't followers and who witnessed the miracles quickly became followers.  Boojatta   Nov-30-11 05:10 PM   #26 
  - People of that time were predisposed to believe in the hocus pocus  Major Nikon   Nov-30-11 05:50 PM   #29 
     - How about the possibility of the deliberate destruction of records between their time and ours?  Boojatta   Nov-30-11 07:03 PM   #35 
        - If that were the case, it should be reasonably obvious that the records were censored  Major Nikon   Nov-30-11 07:39 PM   #37 
           - I'm talking about records having been destroyed, not censored.  Boojatta   Nov-30-11 07:58 PM   #38 
              - You gave a motivation for their destruction  Major Nikon   Nov-30-11 08:15 PM   #40 
  - I used to think Jesus could have been conman until I had a psychopath in my life  applegrove   Nov-30-11 07:59 PM   #39 
  - The same was said of  edhopper   Dec-01-11 12:51 PM   #43 
  - I think that would sort of depend on who you were  Marrah_G   Dec-06-11 06:58 AM   #58 
  - He was a Schizophrenic.  Odin2005   Dec-01-11 12:00 PM   #41 
  - Interesting observation about schizophrenics, and perhaps that Jesus guy! n't  MarkCharles   Dec-01-11 12:57 PM   #44 
  - Hmmmmm. I've seen a few schizophrenics  Nye Bevan   Dec-05-11 02:04 PM   #50 
  - It makes perfect sense that that the crucifiction of Jesus was not recorded  humblebum   Dec-01-11 01:59 PM   #45 
  - You're telling us that a government that takes a census doesn't record  MarkCharles   Dec-06-11 08:32 AM   #59 
  - I think so.  Antifa919   Dec-03-11 11:35 AM   #46 
  - Even if he did do miracles...  sakabatou   Dec-06-11 01:58 AM   #56 
  - Religion is the biggest scam ever...  Amaya   Dec-09-11 11:58 AM   #62 

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