geckosfeet
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Sat Nov-26-11 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #56 |
| 61. Because individual knowledge is completely dependent upon perception. |
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Edited on Sat Nov-26-11 08:05 AM by geckosfeet
They are intimately bound. Cultural or academic knowledge is a more static body, changing slowly over time, but still dependent upon collective perception.
I am not blurring the nature of knowledge, the blurring is part of it's own nature. My view is that knowledge exists on a spectrum, from lets say, absolute scientific objectivity (which IMO is still subject to perceptual influences) through completely psychological perception based only on ones brain activity unrelated to external stimuli - as in dreaming or hallucination.
Genetic vs environmental nature of knowledge points at the meaning of knowledge in the sense that it provides a fundamental source of knowledge. Is our knowledge a collection of our perceptions and experiences - beginning from within the womb, or are we born with some form of knowing, some way of acknowledging and reacting to/with our experience, being and environment. Or both.
IMO - "zeroing on a specific clear meaning of knowledge" is the timeless question for all philosophers. Can you do it? Yes. Is it the final word? No.
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| -What does it mean to "know" something? To have knowledge? |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 02:12 PM |
#0 |
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Whuuut? |
geckosfeet |
Nov-25-11 02:30 PM |
#1 |
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It is certainly one function of myth |
skepticscott |
Nov-25-11 03:09 PM |
#7 |
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There's a difference between a path to knowledge and knowledge itself |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 04:00 PM |
#22 |
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Debating the correctness of other ways of knowing, comes down to, in the end, |
geckosfeet |
Nov-25-11 04:10 PM |
#27 |
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Why "(knowledge)" parenthetically after the word "beliefs"? |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 04:33 PM |
#29 |
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You are right. At the root, contradiction is the only truth. |
geckosfeet |
Nov-25-11 08:26 PM |
#48 |
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That's different perception, not different knowledge. |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 11:07 PM |
#56 |
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Because individual knowledge is completely dependent upon perception. |
geckosfeet |
Nov-26-11 08:04 AM |
#61 |
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I hardly expect to reach "the final word" |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 10:34 AM |
#66 |
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How does one obtain |
rrneck |
Nov-26-11 11:46 AM |
#70 |
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It's a social process |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 02:57 PM |
#81 |
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Can that experience be measured empirically? nt |
rrneck |
Nov-26-11 03:06 PM |
#83 |
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What do you mean by "measuring" an experience? |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 03:28 PM |
#84 |
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The term "knowledge" seems quite simple to me. |
rrneck |
Nov-26-11 04:03 PM |
#85 |
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"If you know something, it's knowledge" is uselessly circular. |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 04:23 PM |
#86 |
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Why did you post the OP? nt |
rrneck |
Nov-26-11 06:55 PM |
#89 |
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In response to much talk over time in R/T... |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 07:33 PM |
#90 |
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Why did you decide it would be interesting? nt |
rrneck |
Nov-26-11 07:42 PM |
#91 |
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Am I going to get billed for this? |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 08:42 PM |
#92 |
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Good. This is walking the fine between sohphism and nonsense. |
geckosfeet |
Nov-27-11 12:48 PM |
#96 |
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You intrepret your feelings correctly. |
rrneck |
Nov-27-11 01:03 PM |
#97 |
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A "bat" can be a flying mammal or a thing you hit a baseball with |
Silent3 |
Nov-27-11 01:23 PM |
#98 |
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So you disregard information |
rrneck |
Nov-27-11 01:57 PM |
#99 |
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Huh? |
Silent3 |
Nov-27-11 02:05 PM |
#100 |
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Whatever you want to do. |
rrneck |
Nov-27-11 02:21 PM |
#101 |
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Somehow, according to a heated PM conversation I've been given leave... |
Silent3 |
Nov-27-11 10:07 PM |
#102 |
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*sigh* |
rrneck |
Nov-28-11 04:14 AM |
#103 |
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Considering that whole books are written on the subject of epistemology... |
Silent3 |
Nov-28-11 06:34 PM |
#104 |
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So how can individual introspection be universally true? nt |
rrneck |
Nov-28-11 07:04 PM |
#105 |
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What part of individual introspection? |
Silent3 |
Nov-28-11 07:31 PM |
#106 |
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Should individual introspection be considered universally true? |
rrneck |
Nov-28-11 07:35 PM |
#107 |
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Again, I have to ask, that it occurs... |
Silent3 |
Nov-28-11 07:44 PM |
#108 |
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Nope. You got out again. |
rrneck |
Nov-28-11 07:51 PM |
#109 |
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I didn't "get out", I honestly can't figure out... |
Silent3 |
Nov-28-11 08:08 PM |
#110 |
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Maybe this will help. |
rrneck |
Nov-28-11 08:11 PM |
#111 |
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I know the meaning of the word. |
Silent3 |
Nov-28-11 08:16 PM |
#112 |
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LOL! |
rrneck |
Nov-28-11 08:23 PM |
#113 |
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If I make up *an* introspection, a particular instance of introspection... |
Silent3 |
Nov-28-11 08:36 PM |
#114 |
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Is your intorspection universally true? nt |
rrneck |
Nov-28-11 08:39 PM |
#115 |
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That I engage in introspection is likely true. |
Silent3 |
Nov-28-11 08:57 PM |
#116 |
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Did your introspection actually occur? |
rrneck |
Nov-28-11 09:02 PM |
#117 |
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As an event in time? |
Silent3 |
Nov-28-11 09:33 PM |
#118 |
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Then what make your candidate true? |
rrneck |
Nov-28-11 10:59 PM |
#119 |
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Nothing absolutely makes it true. |
Silent3 |
Nov-28-11 11:29 PM |
#120 |
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Well, I guess I was wrong. |
rrneck |
Nov-29-11 12:20 AM |
#121 |
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So, what were you digging for? |
Silent3 |
Nov-29-11 09:45 AM |
#123 |
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I'm not digging at all. |
rrneck |
Nov-29-11 11:12 AM |
#124 |
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Can you verify your own self awareness to anyone but yourself? |
Silent3 |
Nov-29-11 12:21 PM |
#125 |
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My thoughts are my own |
rrneck |
Nov-29-11 01:40 PM |
#126 |
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Thoughts that are yours and yours alone don't have much impact |
Silent3 |
Nov-29-11 03:02 PM |
#127 |
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Does a thought have to be communicated to another |
rrneck |
Nov-29-11 03:47 PM |
#128 |
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Answer a few of my questions first... |
Silent3 |
Nov-29-11 03:55 PM |
#129 |
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Feeling cornered again? |
rrneck |
Nov-29-11 04:08 PM |
#130 |
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You're just being lazy now. |
Silent3 |
Nov-29-11 04:20 PM |
#131 |
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Can't do it huh? nt |
rrneck |
Nov-29-11 05:15 PM |
#132 |
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I just had a thought... |
Silent3 |
Nov-29-11 05:52 PM |
#133 |
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Okay. nt |
rrneck |
Nov-29-11 06:22 PM |
#134 |
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Now we all understand |
Silent3 |
Nov-29-11 08:54 PM |
#135 |
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Gah! I love it! And I have knowledge of a funny image. nt |
rrneck |
Nov-29-11 09:09 PM |
#136 |
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Awareness |
postatomic |
Nov-25-11 02:35 PM |
#2 |
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If the word "knowledge" is difficult to apply, then why apply it? |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 03:32 PM |
#15 |
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You were the one applying the word 'knowledge' |
postatomic |
Nov-25-11 10:39 PM |
#54 |
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Yes, I applied the word "knowledge"... |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 11:01 PM |
#55 |
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You make many assumptions |
postatomic |
Nov-26-11 04:35 PM |
#87 |
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"You make many assumptions" |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 05:37 PM |
#88 |
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What an utterly FANTASTIC post! Heads are exploding right now! |
cleanhippie |
Nov-25-11 02:36 PM |
#3 |
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As interesting as all of this is |
skepticscott |
Nov-25-11 02:53 PM |
#4 |
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Very well stated. I was wondering where you had found that, but I |
MarkCharles |
Nov-25-11 02:56 PM |
#5 |
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The major problem here is that graduate courses in "other ways of knowing" are |
humblebum |
Nov-25-11 03:06 PM |
#6 |
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That is a major problem. |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 03:16 PM |
#9 |
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What it proves is that your opinion is definitely not universally accepted. Here's one: |
humblebum |
Nov-25-11 03:22 PM |
#11 |
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Calling something |
skepticscott |
Nov-25-11 03:25 PM |
#13 |
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And listening to someone swear up and down it ain't so, in spite of |
humblebum |
Nov-25-11 03:31 PM |
#14 |
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OPINIONS? I thought the topic was "knowledge", not opinion. |
MarkCharles |
Nov-25-11 03:35 PM |
#17 |
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I am referring to the "opinions" or "convictions" or "understandings" (whatever |
humblebum |
Nov-25-11 03:41 PM |
#18 |
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I am usually quite amenable to respecting "opinions" or "understandings" that can be |
MarkCharles |
Nov-25-11 04:07 PM |
#25 |
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Did you type that post? nt |
rrneck |
Nov-25-11 07:51 PM |
#43 |
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You don't see because you don't want to see. And you are the one who claimed |
humblebum |
Nov-25-11 08:13 PM |
#46 |
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If either you or Jodie Wear-Leiker would like to elaborate... |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 03:48 PM |
#20 |
  -
Who? nt |
humblebum |
Nov-25-11 04:03 PM |
#23 |
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She's the one who apparently teaches that course... |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 04:05 PM |
#24 |
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How much more substance do you need? There are many institutions |
humblebum |
Nov-25-11 04:13 PM |
#28 |
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What do I care about universal acceptance? |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 04:36 PM |
#30 |
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Have fun on your island. nt |
humblebum |
Nov-25-11 08:10 PM |
#45 |
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Once again... |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 11:20 PM |
#57 |
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You have now resorted to using buzz words in an attempt to appear |
humblebum |
Nov-26-11 12:44 AM |
#59 |
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Of course many people don't think like me. |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 10:02 AM |
#65 |
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Over the past few weeks, you and others have been supplied |
humblebum |
Nov-26-11 11:38 AM |
#69 |
  -
Again, you refer elsewhere and don't speak for yourself |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 11:49 AM |
#71 |
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You are showing that you have seen, but rejected the information you |
humblebum |
Nov-26-11 12:01 PM |
#72 |
  -
Then tell me what IN YOUR OPINION, with YOUR OWN analysis... |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 12:07 PM |
#73 |
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That "cozy little paradigm" rejects any method, or epistemology, or any |
humblebum |
Nov-26-11 12:20 PM |
#74 |
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My OP clearly denies your claim about "near 100% objective proof". |
Silent3 |
Nov-26-11 02:48 PM |
#79 |
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An excellent summary of what has, and has NOT been presented as... |
MarkCharles |
Nov-26-11 02:59 PM |
#82 |
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An excellent statement of what is going on here, well done! n/t |
MarkCharles |
Nov-26-11 02:53 PM |
#80 |
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From THIS school? Professors in philosophy of religion? |
cleanhippie |
Nov-25-11 03:53 PM |
#21 |
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If it was only one institution or one person teaching courses like this, |
humblebum |
Nov-25-11 04:07 PM |
#26 |
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Sure there are |
skepticscott |
Nov-25-11 03:23 PM |
#12 |
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There are several threads about this - why start a new one? |
bananas |
Nov-25-11 03:16 PM |
#8 |
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So alert. |
laconicsax |
Nov-25-11 03:16 PM |
#10 |
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There's a double-standard at play. nt |
bananas |
Nov-25-11 03:44 PM |
#19 |
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Then take it to ATA. n/t |
laconicsax |
Nov-25-11 08:05 PM |
#44 |
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You are free not to read or participate, if the topic doesn't interest you, or |
MarkCharles |
Nov-25-11 03:32 PM |
#16 |
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No existing thread on this subject used the particular approach... |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 04:42 PM |
#31 |
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I am so glad you did, and appreciate the incredibly valiant effort. |
MarkCharles |
Nov-25-11 04:50 PM |
#32 |
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There must be quite a few people quietly annoyed by my OP... |
Silent3 |
Nov-25-11 04:59 PM |
#33 |
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Lots of people seem to object to logical analysis when it comes to their |
MarkCharles |
Nov-25-11 05:03 PM |
#34 |
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Did the Ptolemaic system constitute knowledge? |
Jim__ |
Nov-25-11 06:45 PM |
#35 |
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Did it later get confirmed by others working independently of Ptolemy? |
MarkCharles |
Nov-25-11 06:56 PM |
#36 |
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One day in the future people will be amused at our quaint notions of quantum physics. |
rug |
Nov-25-11 07:17 PM |
#37 |
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Are we "amused" by Newton's "quaint" notions of gravity, and momentum? |
MarkCharles |
Nov-25-11 07:26 PM |
#38 |
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I am amused by smug certitude. |
rug |
Nov-25-11 07:32 PM |
#39 |
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If you view the scientific process and discipline as "smug", try reading |
MarkCharles |
Nov-25-11 07:39 PM |
#41 |
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I don't view a scientific process as smug; I view people who cling to it as a sine qua non to be. |
rug |
Nov-25-11 07:51 PM |
#42 |
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I didn't miss a thing, I know the guy who made the video. |
MarkCharles |
Nov-25-11 08:14 PM |
#47 |
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If you indeed know him you should have a talk. |
rug |
Nov-25-11 09:46 PM |
#51 |
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I see you once again avoided answering questions, and instead chose to |
MarkCharles |
Nov-26-11 08:12 AM |
#62 |
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I'm assume you're certain of that. |
rug |
Nov-26-11 08:59 AM |
#63 |
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I think that's probably true. But I'm not sure. |
Jim__ |
Nov-25-11 08:29 PM |
#49 |
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I'm a little more optimistic. |
rrneck |
Nov-25-11 08:56 PM |
#50 |
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To me the difference is that language doesn't break down at mach 2. |
Jim__ |
Nov-26-11 09:00 AM |
#64 |
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I think that |
rrneck |
Nov-26-11 11:28 AM |
#68 |
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The term "mach" is new. But it represents a known concept - a measure of speed. |
Jim__ |
Nov-26-11 12:29 PM |
#75 |
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That makes sense. |
rrneck |
Nov-26-11 12:57 PM |
#77 |
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Sometimes I get the same feeling at the cosmological level. |
Jim__ |
Nov-26-11 01:37 PM |
#78 |
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If you know something, it's knowledge. |
rrneck |
Nov-25-11 07:38 PM |
#40 |
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Can someone "know" |
skepticscott |
Nov-25-11 10:04 PM |
#52 |
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It is of great value |
rrneck |
Nov-25-11 11:52 PM |
#58 |
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Except that under your definition |
skepticscott |
Nov-26-11 07:43 AM |
#60 |
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Well, there is that whole free will thing. |
rrneck |
Nov-26-11 11:19 AM |
#67 |
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Picking up on one point here ... |
Nihil |
Nov-30-11 12:09 PM |
#141 |
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You'll be happy to know |
skepticscott |
Nov-25-11 10:20 PM |
#53 |
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I try to communicate clearly. |
Boojatta |
Nov-26-11 12:41 PM |
#76 |
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I know that posts like this serve no purpose |
Angry Dragon |
Nov-26-11 11:44 PM |
#93 |
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It has at the very least been entertaining |
Silent3 |
Nov-27-11 01:18 AM |
#94 |
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As long as you had fun |
Angry Dragon |
Nov-27-11 10:02 AM |
#95 |
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I thought it was one of the best attempts to grapple with this subject I've seen in R/T. |
trotsky |
Nov-29-11 07:05 AM |
#122 |
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Considering that the most engaged attempt... |
Silent3 |
Nov-29-11 09:58 PM |
#137 |
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Did you qualify your own self awareness yet? |
rrneck |
Nov-30-11 10:16 AM |
#138 |
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Ah, Magritte |
Silent3 |
Nov-30-11 10:36 AM |
#139 |
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Ah Fillmore |
rrneck |
Nov-30-11 10:46 AM |
#140 |