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Reply #5: Very well stated. I was wondering where you had found that, but I [View All]

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MarkCharles Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-25-11 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
5. Very well stated. I was wondering where you had found that, but I
see it is really your own work and your own thoughts.

Quite commendable.

Of course, those who are believers in a god will not agree.



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  -What does it mean to "know" something? To have knowledge? Silent3  Nov-25-11 02:12 PM   #0 
  - Whuuut?  geckosfeet   Nov-25-11 02:30 PM   #1 
  - It is certainly one function of myth  skepticscott   Nov-25-11 03:09 PM   #7 
  - There's a difference between a path to knowledge and knowledge itself  Silent3   Nov-25-11 04:00 PM   #22 
     - Debating the correctness of other ways of knowing, comes down to, in the end,  geckosfeet   Nov-25-11 04:10 PM   #27 
        - Why "(knowledge)" parenthetically after the word "beliefs"?  Silent3   Nov-25-11 04:33 PM   #29 
           - You are right. At the root, contradiction is the only truth.  geckosfeet   Nov-25-11 08:26 PM   #48 
              - That's different perception, not different knowledge.  Silent3   Nov-25-11 11:07 PM   #56 
                 - Because individual knowledge is completely dependent upon perception.  geckosfeet   Nov-26-11 08:04 AM   #61 
                    - I hardly expect to reach "the final word"  Silent3   Nov-26-11 10:34 AM   #66 
                       - How does one obtain  rrneck   Nov-26-11 11:46 AM   #70 
                          - It's a social process  Silent3   Nov-26-11 02:57 PM   #81 
                             - Can that experience be measured empirically? nt  rrneck   Nov-26-11 03:06 PM   #83 
                                - What do you mean by "measuring" an experience?  Silent3   Nov-26-11 03:28 PM   #84 
                                   - The term "knowledge" seems quite simple to me.  rrneck   Nov-26-11 04:03 PM   #85 
                                      - "If you know something, it's knowledge" is uselessly circular.  Silent3   Nov-26-11 04:23 PM   #86 
                                         - Why did you post the OP? nt  rrneck   Nov-26-11 06:55 PM   #89 
                                            - In response to much talk over time in R/T...  Silent3   Nov-26-11 07:33 PM   #90 
                                               - Why did you decide it would be interesting? nt  rrneck   Nov-26-11 07:42 PM   #91 
                                                  - Am I going to get billed for this?  Silent3   Nov-26-11 08:42 PM   #92 
                                                     - Good. This is walking the fine between sohphism and nonsense.  geckosfeet   Nov-27-11 12:48 PM   #96 
                                                     - You intrepret your feelings correctly.  rrneck   Nov-27-11 01:03 PM   #97 
                                                     - A "bat" can be a flying mammal or a thing you hit a baseball with  Silent3   Nov-27-11 01:23 PM   #98 
                                                     - So you disregard information  rrneck   Nov-27-11 01:57 PM   #99 
                                                     - Huh?  Silent3   Nov-27-11 02:05 PM   #100 
                                                     - Whatever you want to do.  rrneck   Nov-27-11 02:21 PM   #101 
                                                     - Somehow, according to a heated PM conversation I've been given leave...  Silent3   Nov-27-11 10:07 PM   #102 
                                                     - *sigh*  rrneck   Nov-28-11 04:14 AM   #103 
                                                     - Considering that whole books are written on the subject of epistemology...  Silent3   Nov-28-11 06:34 PM   #104 
                                                     - So how can individual introspection be universally true? nt  rrneck   Nov-28-11 07:04 PM   #105 
                                                     - What part of individual introspection?  Silent3   Nov-28-11 07:31 PM   #106 
                                                     - Should individual introspection be considered universally true?  rrneck   Nov-28-11 07:35 PM   #107 
                                                     - Again, I have to ask, that it occurs...  Silent3   Nov-28-11 07:44 PM   #108 
                                                     - Nope. You got out again.  rrneck   Nov-28-11 07:51 PM   #109 
                                                     - I didn't "get out", I honestly can't figure out...  Silent3   Nov-28-11 08:08 PM   #110 
                                                     - Maybe this will help.  rrneck   Nov-28-11 08:11 PM   #111 
                                                     - I know the meaning of the word.  Silent3   Nov-28-11 08:16 PM   #112 
                                                     - LOL!  rrneck   Nov-28-11 08:23 PM   #113 
                                                     - If I make up *an* introspection, a particular instance of introspection...  Silent3   Nov-28-11 08:36 PM   #114 
                                                     - Is your intorspection universally true? nt  rrneck   Nov-28-11 08:39 PM   #115 
                                                     - That I engage in introspection is likely true.  Silent3   Nov-28-11 08:57 PM   #116 
                                                     - Did your introspection actually occur?  rrneck   Nov-28-11 09:02 PM   #117 
                                                     - As an event in time?  Silent3   Nov-28-11 09:33 PM   #118 
                                                     - Then what make your candidate true?  rrneck   Nov-28-11 10:59 PM   #119 
                                                     - Nothing absolutely makes it true.  Silent3   Nov-28-11 11:29 PM   #120 
                                                     - Well, I guess I was wrong.  rrneck   Nov-29-11 12:20 AM   #121 
                                                     - So, what were you digging for?  Silent3   Nov-29-11 09:45 AM   #123 
                                                     - I'm not digging at all.  rrneck   Nov-29-11 11:12 AM   #124 
                                                     - Can you verify your own self awareness to anyone but yourself?  Silent3   Nov-29-11 12:21 PM   #125 
                                                     - My thoughts are my own  rrneck   Nov-29-11 01:40 PM   #126 
                                                     - Thoughts that are yours and yours alone don't have much impact  Silent3   Nov-29-11 03:02 PM   #127 
                                                     - Does a thought have to be communicated to another  rrneck   Nov-29-11 03:47 PM   #128 
                                                     - Answer a few of my questions first...  Silent3   Nov-29-11 03:55 PM   #129 
                                                     - Feeling cornered again?  rrneck   Nov-29-11 04:08 PM   #130 
                                                     - You're just being lazy now.  Silent3   Nov-29-11 04:20 PM   #131 
                                                     - Can't do it huh? nt  rrneck   Nov-29-11 05:15 PM   #132 
                                                     - I just had a thought...  Silent3   Nov-29-11 05:52 PM   #133 
                                                     - Okay. nt  rrneck   Nov-29-11 06:22 PM   #134 
                                                     - Now we all understand  Silent3   Nov-29-11 08:54 PM   #135 
                                                     - Gah! I love it! And I have knowledge of a funny image. nt  rrneck   Nov-29-11 09:09 PM   #136 
  - Awareness  postatomic   Nov-25-11 02:35 PM   #2 
  - If the word "knowledge" is difficult to apply, then why apply it?  Silent3   Nov-25-11 03:32 PM   #15 
     - You were the one applying the word 'knowledge'  postatomic   Nov-25-11 10:39 PM   #54 
        - Yes, I applied the word "knowledge"...  Silent3   Nov-25-11 11:01 PM   #55 
           - You make many assumptions  postatomic   Nov-26-11 04:35 PM   #87 
              - "You make many assumptions"  Silent3   Nov-26-11 05:37 PM   #88 
  - What an utterly FANTASTIC post! Heads are exploding right now!  cleanhippie   Nov-25-11 02:36 PM   #3 
  - As interesting as all of this is  skepticscott   Nov-25-11 02:53 PM   #4 
  - Very well stated. I was wondering where you had found that, but I  MarkCharles   Nov-25-11 02:56 PM   #5 
  - The major problem here is that graduate courses in "other ways of knowing" are  humblebum   Nov-25-11 03:06 PM   #6 
  - That is a major problem.  Silent3   Nov-25-11 03:16 PM   #9 
  - What it proves is that your opinion is definitely not universally accepted. Here's one:  humblebum   Nov-25-11 03:22 PM   #11 
     - Calling something  skepticscott   Nov-25-11 03:25 PM   #13 
     - And listening to someone swear up and down it ain't so, in spite of  humblebum   Nov-25-11 03:31 PM   #14 
        - OPINIONS? I thought the topic was "knowledge", not opinion.  MarkCharles   Nov-25-11 03:35 PM   #17 
           - I am referring to the "opinions" or "convictions" or "understandings" (whatever  humblebum   Nov-25-11 03:41 PM   #18 
              - I am usually quite amenable to respecting "opinions" or "understandings" that can be  MarkCharles   Nov-25-11 04:07 PM   #25 
                 - Did you type that post? nt  rrneck   Nov-25-11 07:51 PM   #43 
                 - You don't see because you don't want to see. And you are the one who claimed  humblebum   Nov-25-11 08:13 PM   #46 
     - If either you or Jodie Wear-Leiker would like to elaborate...  Silent3   Nov-25-11 03:48 PM   #20 
     - Who? nt  humblebum   Nov-25-11 04:03 PM   #23 
        - She's the one who apparently teaches that course...  Silent3   Nov-25-11 04:05 PM   #24 
           - How much more substance do you need? There are many institutions  humblebum   Nov-25-11 04:13 PM   #28 
              - What do I care about universal acceptance?  Silent3   Nov-25-11 04:36 PM   #30 
                 - Have fun on your island. nt  humblebum   Nov-25-11 08:10 PM   #45 
                    - Once again...  Silent3   Nov-25-11 11:20 PM   #57 
                       - You have now resorted to using buzz words in an attempt to appear  humblebum   Nov-26-11 12:44 AM   #59 
                          - Of course many people don't think like me.  Silent3   Nov-26-11 10:02 AM   #65 
                             - Over the past few weeks, you and others have been supplied  humblebum   Nov-26-11 11:38 AM   #69 
                             - Again, you refer elsewhere and don't speak for yourself  Silent3   Nov-26-11 11:49 AM   #71 
                                - You are showing that you have seen, but rejected the information you  humblebum   Nov-26-11 12:01 PM   #72 
                                - Then tell me what IN YOUR OPINION, with YOUR OWN analysis...  Silent3   Nov-26-11 12:07 PM   #73 
                                   - That "cozy little paradigm" rejects any method, or epistemology, or any  humblebum   Nov-26-11 12:20 PM   #74 
                                      - My OP clearly denies your claim about "near 100% objective proof".  Silent3   Nov-26-11 02:48 PM   #79 
                                - An excellent summary of what has, and has NOT been presented as...  MarkCharles   Nov-26-11 02:59 PM   #82 
                             - An excellent statement of what is going on here, well done! n/t  MarkCharles   Nov-26-11 02:53 PM   #80 
     - From THIS school? Professors in philosophy of religion?  cleanhippie   Nov-25-11 03:53 PM   #21 
        - If it was only one institution or one person teaching courses like this,  humblebum   Nov-25-11 04:07 PM   #26 
  - Sure there are  skepticscott   Nov-25-11 03:23 PM   #12 
  - There are several threads about this - why start a new one?  bananas   Nov-25-11 03:16 PM   #8 
  - So alert.  laconicsax   Nov-25-11 03:16 PM   #10 
  - There's a double-standard at play. nt  bananas   Nov-25-11 03:44 PM   #19 
     - Then take it to ATA. n/t  laconicsax   Nov-25-11 08:05 PM   #44 
  - You are free not to read or participate, if the topic doesn't interest you, or  MarkCharles   Nov-25-11 03:32 PM   #16 
  - No existing thread on this subject used the particular approach...  Silent3   Nov-25-11 04:42 PM   #31 
     - I am so glad you did, and appreciate the incredibly valiant effort.  MarkCharles   Nov-25-11 04:50 PM   #32 
        - There must be quite a few people quietly annoyed by my OP...  Silent3   Nov-25-11 04:59 PM   #33 
           - Lots of people seem to object to logical analysis when it comes to their  MarkCharles   Nov-25-11 05:03 PM   #34 
  - Did the Ptolemaic system constitute knowledge?  Jim__   Nov-25-11 06:45 PM   #35 
  - Did it later get confirmed by others working independently of Ptolemy?  MarkCharles   Nov-25-11 06:56 PM   #36 
  - One day in the future people will be amused at our quaint notions of quantum physics.  rug   Nov-25-11 07:17 PM   #37 
     - Are we "amused" by Newton's "quaint" notions of gravity, and momentum?  MarkCharles   Nov-25-11 07:26 PM   #38 
     - I am amused by smug certitude.  rug   Nov-25-11 07:32 PM   #39 
        - If you view the scientific process and discipline as "smug", try reading  MarkCharles   Nov-25-11 07:39 PM   #41 
           - I don't view a scientific process as smug; I view people who cling to it as a sine qua non to be.  rug   Nov-25-11 07:51 PM   #42 
              - I didn't miss a thing, I know the guy who made the video.  MarkCharles   Nov-25-11 08:14 PM   #47 
                 - If you indeed know him you should have a talk.  rug   Nov-25-11 09:46 PM   #51 
                    - I see you once again avoided answering questions, and instead chose to  MarkCharles   Nov-26-11 08:12 AM   #62 
                       - I'm assume you're certain of that.  rug   Nov-26-11 08:59 AM   #63 
     - I think that's probably true. But I'm not sure.  Jim__   Nov-25-11 08:29 PM   #49 
        - I'm a little more optimistic.  rrneck   Nov-25-11 08:56 PM   #50 
           - To me the difference is that language doesn't break down at mach 2.  Jim__   Nov-26-11 09:00 AM   #64 
              - I think that  rrneck   Nov-26-11 11:28 AM   #68 
                 - The term "mach" is new. But it represents a known concept - a measure of speed.  Jim__   Nov-26-11 12:29 PM   #75 
                    - That makes sense.  rrneck   Nov-26-11 12:57 PM   #77 
                       - Sometimes I get the same feeling at the cosmological level.  Jim__   Nov-26-11 01:37 PM   #78 
  - If you know something, it's knowledge.  rrneck   Nov-25-11 07:38 PM   #40 
  - Can someone "know"  skepticscott   Nov-25-11 10:04 PM   #52 
     - It is of great value  rrneck   Nov-25-11 11:52 PM   #58 
     - Except that under your definition  skepticscott   Nov-26-11 07:43 AM   #60 
        - Well, there is that whole free will thing.  rrneck   Nov-26-11 11:19 AM   #67 
     - Picking up on one point here ...  Nihil   Nov-30-11 12:09 PM   #141 
  - You'll be happy to know  skepticscott   Nov-25-11 10:20 PM   #53 
  - I try to communicate clearly.  Boojatta   Nov-26-11 12:41 PM   #76 
  - I know that posts like this serve no purpose  Angry Dragon   Nov-26-11 11:44 PM   #93 
     - It has at the very least been entertaining  Silent3   Nov-27-11 01:18 AM   #94 
        - As long as you had fun  Angry Dragon   Nov-27-11 10:02 AM   #95 
        - I thought it was one of the best attempts to grapple with this subject I've seen in R/T.  trotsky   Nov-29-11 07:05 AM   #122 
           - Considering that the most engaged attempt...  Silent3   Nov-29-11 09:58 PM   #137 
              - Did you qualify your own self awareness yet?  rrneck   Nov-30-11 10:16 AM   #138 
                 - Ah, Magritte  Silent3   Nov-30-11 10:36 AM   #139 
                    - Ah Fillmore  rrneck   Nov-30-11 10:46 AM   #140 
 

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