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Reply #65: Well, here's a half dozen "Christian circles" you haven't visited in the last 10 years!!! [View All]

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MarkCharles Donating Member (932 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-19-11 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. Well, here's a half dozen "Christian circles" you haven't visited in the last 10 years!!!
Edited on Sat Nov-19-11 05:44 PM by MarkCharles
"According to a 2004 Gallup Poll, 70% of Americans believe in hell. Belief in hell is highest among regular churchgoers: 92% of those who attend church weekly believe in hell, as do 74% of those who attend nearly weekly.

In Christian theology, hell is the place or state into which unrepentant sinners pass after this life. Hell is generally thought to be eternal, and to include both punishment (poena sensus) and separation from God (poena damni)."

I'd say you live a pretty isolated life, and your "Christian circles" are pretty "liberal" and not noteworthy as the majority of Christians in the USA SAY that they believe in a hell.


"Fundamentalist / Conservative / Evangelical Christian groups can generally be characterized as believing that salvation is a free gift of God. It is received by repenting and asking for forgiveness of sin, and trusting Jesus as Lord and Savior. They define Christianity as a personal and living relationship with Jesus Christ. They believe the Bible is God's inspired Word and is the basis of all truth. Most conservative Christians believe that hell is a real place that awaits anyone who does not repented of their sins and trust Jesus as Lord."

'When preaching hell to people of this mindset, I've found I must make four arguments.

1. Sin is slavery. I do not define sin as just breaking the rules, but also as "making something besides God our ultimate value and worth." These good things, which become gods, will drive us relentlessly, enslaving us mentally and spiritually, even to hell forever if we let them.

I say, "You are actually being religious, though you don't know ityou are trying to find salvation through worshiping things that end up controlling you in a destructive way." Slavery is the choice-worshiper's horror."


"The Orthodox Church holds that both Heaven and Hell are a condition of relationship with God that is either theosis or perdition,"

"The life of Hell is rendered in Holy Scripture in other terms and other expressions, such as "everlasting fire
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  -Delighting in Hell. MarkCharles  Nov-18-11 06:24 PM   #0 
  - Jimmy Swaggart  rpannier   Nov-18-11 06:26 PM   #1 
  - I was in North Carolina at that time.  OffWithTheirHeads   Nov-18-11 06:53 PM   #13 
     - That was Jimmy Baker of "Jimmy and Tammy Fae" fame.  HubertHeaver   Nov-18-11 07:46 PM   #32 
        - and the difference is?  OffWithTheirHeads   Nov-18-11 08:36 PM   #37 
           - One is the religious shyster on your right, the other is the  HubertHeaver   Nov-18-11 10:51 PM   #42 
  - It's your choice to burn in hell  NMMNG   Nov-18-11 06:31 PM   #2 
  - This guy has had a long obsession with hell.  rug   Nov-18-11 06:32 PM   #3 
  - How about the thousands of years of "obsession" that Christians have had?  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 06:36 PM   #4 
     - A theology of hell is much different than an obsession with hell.  rug   Nov-18-11 06:38 PM   #5 
        - Oh? And what, pray tell, is a theology of hell?  LAGC   Nov-18-11 06:41 PM   #7 
        - If you're religious it's a "theology of hell"  NMMNG   Nov-18-11 06:43 PM   #8 
        - Who said that? I must have missed it.  rug   Nov-18-11 06:44 PM   #10 
        - An oft-discussed topic.  rug   Nov-18-11 06:43 PM   #9 
        - A theology of hell? So you admit there is one?  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 06:45 PM   #11 
        - Of course there's a theology of hell.  rug   Nov-18-11 06:52 PM   #12 
           - Does there exist a NON twisted theology of hell? If so, can you point to it?  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 06:59 PM   #15 
              - Us,  rug   Nov-18-11 07:04 PM   #17 
                 - In other words, you cannot. End of pointless discussion of ..  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 07:08 PM   #19 
                 - If you indeed had an interest in religions and theology, you wouldn't have had to ask.  rug   Nov-18-11 07:15 PM   #20 
                    - I AM the OP! All thinking about a hell is twisted, if you had bothered to read the links.  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 07:19 PM   #21 
                       - OP is original post, not poster, and it isn't even original.  rug   Nov-18-11 07:22 PM   #22 
                          - Sorry, there are TWO original LINKS in MY ORIGINAL POST!  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 07:24 PM   #23 
                          - "Poor guy"  NMMNG   Nov-18-11 07:33 PM   #26 
                 - The point is you act like someone who is ashamed to stand up...  Silent3   Nov-19-11 01:41 PM   #45 
                    - The point is it's a rather uniformed question coming from someone who boasts of being informed.  rug   Nov-19-11 03:03 PM   #49 
                       - So you are now going to give a direct answer to the question I asked you  MarkCharles   Nov-19-11 03:07 PM   #50 
                       - See 48.  rug   Nov-19-11 03:17 PM   #51 
                       - You seem to so often have an excuse...  Silent3   Nov-19-11 08:22 PM   #83 
                          - Dazzle? Ok.  rug   Nov-19-11 08:45 PM   #88 
        - This theology of hell you speak of, I feel you should define it in your own words  Angry Dragon   Nov-19-11 02:29 PM   #46 
           - Nor do I! Funny how believers can't be direct and forthcoming about  MarkCharles   Nov-19-11 02:30 PM   #47 
           - Allow me.  rug   Nov-19-11 03:00 PM   #48 
              - In other words, search through the gobledygook of religious fantasy and myth  MarkCharles   Nov-19-11 03:40 PM   #52 
                 - I see your point. It's a lot easier to throw bullshit out about what people believe than to learn.  rug   Nov-19-11 03:45 PM   #53 
                    - So you want me to read what other people believe and not what you believe??  Angry Dragon   Nov-19-11 04:24 PM   #54 
                    - Generally, the more you know about what you're discussing, the more fruitful the discussion.  rug   Nov-19-11 04:58 PM   #56 
                       - I guess you practice the inverse  Angry Dragon   Nov-19-11 05:05 PM   #58 
                          - "That in my mind is a huge cop-out" in MY mind, too.  MarkCharles   Nov-19-11 05:09 PM   #59 
                          - The key phrase is "in my mind".  rug   Nov-19-11 05:14 PM   #60 
                             - but you had no problem bringing it up again  Angry Dragon   Nov-19-11 05:18 PM   #61 
                                - Actually, the OP brought it up.  rug   Nov-19-11 05:22 PM   #62 
                                   - you brought up the 'theology of hell' I asked you to explain it  Angry Dragon   Nov-19-11 05:31 PM   #64 
                                      - The difference is simple.  rug   Nov-19-11 06:58 PM   #72 
                                         - Well, we'd really like to hear your caricature.  LAGC   Nov-19-11 07:43 PM   #75 
                                            - I don't have a caricature. And when I see one I point it out.  rug   Nov-19-11 07:55 PM   #77 
                                               - "We" meaning everyone who has been trying to get you to debate instead of dodge.  LAGC   Nov-19-11 07:58 PM   #78 
                                                  - Oh, are you speaking, then, for everyone?  rug   Nov-19-11 08:02 PM   #79 
                                                  - No, just the kind folks in this thread.  LAGC   Nov-19-11 08:10 PM   #80 
                                                  - I fear my cat more than your (whoever they are) "kind folks".  rug   Nov-19-11 08:17 PM   #81 
                                                  - Whatever.  LAGC   Nov-19-11 08:21 PM   #82 
                                                  - Don't worry. My expectations here are quite low.  rug   Nov-19-11 08:24 PM   #84 
                                                  - Then why do you bother posting here at all?  LAGC   Nov-19-11 08:28 PM   #85 
                                                  - Because I find religion and theology quite interesting in all facets.  rug   Nov-19-11 08:37 PM   #86 
                                                  - Stop baiting people and you'll find far less to lower your expectations.  darkstar3   Nov-19-11 08:40 PM   #87 
                                                  - You are the master baiter. And thanks for confirming I've discussed this subject already ad nauseam.  rug   Nov-19-11 08:46 PM   #89 
                                                  - Oh please. You haven't "discussed" anything.  darkstar3   Nov-19-11 08:51 PM   #90 
                                                  - I'm sorry you consider anything other than agreement and high fives to be less than a discussion.  rug   Nov-19-11 08:53 PM   #91 
                                                  - You know that isn't what I said. Where is your answer on the question of hell?  darkstar3   Nov-19-11 08:56 PM   #92 
                    - My "point", from the first question I asked, up until now, is to ask what YOU...  MarkCharles   Nov-19-11 04:36 PM   #55 
                       - See 56.  rug   Nov-19-11 04:59 PM   #57 
  - It was the constant threat of hell that turned me away from religion before I even turned 7.  Speck Tater   Nov-18-11 06:39 PM   #6 
  - Long history of Universalist.  safeinOhio   Nov-18-11 06:58 PM   #14 
  - Good link. Lots of info there.  rug   Nov-18-11 07:06 PM   #18 
  - No Universalist believes in a hell. Few if any believe in a god.  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 08:48 PM   #39 
     - You are thinking of Universalist Unitarians  safeinOhio   Nov-19-11 05:56 AM   #43 
  - One thing I believe about God is we can't even begin to  libinnyandia   Nov-18-11 07:02 PM   #16 
  - It seems to me that anyone that delights in the idea of people roasting in hell...  Tyrs WolfDaemon   Nov-18-11 07:29 PM   #24 
  - The concept of a hell is the flip side of the religious coin, if you don't...  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 07:33 PM   #25 
  - Tremendous insight.  rug   Nov-18-11 07:37 PM   #28 
     - I;m beginning to think you're more of a Simpson's fan, like  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 07:45 PM   #31 
        - I love The Simpsons.  rug   Nov-18-11 07:54 PM   #33 
           - The Simpsons, like Herman Cain, are entertainment for simple minded  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 07:57 PM   #34 
              - Lol.  rug   Nov-18-11 07:59 PM   #35 
                 - Thanks, you do Simpson-minded very well.  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 08:32 PM   #36 
                    - You are definitely in luck then  WhollyHeretic   Nov-19-11 07:49 PM   #76 
  - Considering some of the people who insist they're going to "heaven",  NMMNG   Nov-18-11 07:37 PM   #27 
     - Yeah, I sort of like a good warm winter, too! Of course, we all know that  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 07:41 PM   #29 
  - Everyone's got to believe in something, I believe I'll have another  HysteryDiagnosis   Nov-18-11 07:45 PM   #30 
  - Heaven and Hell coexist on Planet Earth at this very moment. I don't need prophecies.  freshwest   Nov-18-11 08:38 PM   #38 
  - Giving a blank check to believers, are we?  MarkCharles   Nov-18-11 08:49 PM   #40 
     - We? Who's We? I thought it was clear I'm not in either camp, and don't argue with those in either.  freshwest   Nov-18-11 10:05 PM   #41 
  - Some feel that our concept of hell was invented by invented by Catholic theologians ...  spin   Nov-19-11 10:33 AM   #44 
  - i get around a lot in Christian circles.  Thats my opinion   Nov-19-11 05:27 PM   #63 
     - Well, here's a half dozen "Christian circles" you haven't visited in the last 10 years!!!  MarkCharles   Nov-19-11 05:43 PM   #65 
     - Of course the statistics you cite  Thats my opinion   Nov-19-11 06:53 PM   #70 
        - No, you wouldn't be interested.  darkstar3   Nov-19-11 06:57 PM   #71 
     - I'm interested to know YOUR idea of hell. Will you tell me? nt.  Mariana   Nov-19-11 06:41 PM   #66 
     - Gladly!  MarkCharles   Nov-19-11 06:49 PM   #68 
        - I want to know what TMO thinks about it,  Mariana   Nov-19-11 09:28 PM   #93 
     - Please, don't tell us that your admittedly isolated California experience represents all of Xtianity  darkstar3   Nov-19-11 06:48 PM   #67 
     - California is the center of the nation, which is the center of the world, which is....  MarkCharles   Nov-19-11 06:51 PM   #69 
     - Oh, but he's a preacher man, and a theologian  NMMNG   Nov-19-11 07:40 PM   #74 
        - But just perhaps,  Thats my opinion   Nov-19-11 11:14 PM   #94 
           - Just perhaps  NMMNG   Nov-19-11 11:29 PM   #95 
           - Or perhaps, what you describe is an insulated existence in a homogeneous group.  darkstar3   Nov-19-11 11:43 PM   #96 
     - Maybe you should expand your Christian circle  NMMNG   Nov-19-11 07:38 PM   #73 

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