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Reply #76: No, I've discarded the notion of using "Truth" as a universal metric for acceptability. [View All]

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GliderGuider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-20-11 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. No, I've discarded the notion of using "Truth" as a universal metric for acceptability.
Edited on Sun Nov-20-11 01:05 PM by GliderGuider
IMO the concept of "Truth" is way more asymptotic and context-dependent than people realize. I also think that most people don't really use "truth" as a metric for their beliefs - even those who think they do. What they see as truth is largely the result of post-hoc rationalizations for unconscious decisions.

It's not happiness I'm after in this endeavour, but maximum value. Much of that value seems to be hidden in very uncomfortable places, psychologically speaking.

The reduction of inner turmoil isn't my highest goal. Calming the mind is an intermediate step that enables me to investigate the deeper reaches of myself with less interference and resistance from my protective ego-structures. The reduction in turmoil is in service of my highest goal, which is direct experience of the numinous.

It's the same goal held by most Eastern philosophies and the mystic branches of traditional Western religions. Given your probable background in Western materialism and your antipathy toward religions constructs in general, it's not surprising that you might reject the idea. No problem - I'm not urging you to become a Bodhisattva. I'm just trying to describe why this path has value for me personally.
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  -Art, Math, Science, Engineering, Religion are different fields with different ways of knowing things bananas  Nov-15-11 07:20 AM   #0 
  - The first and last fields you list...  trotsky   Nov-15-11 07:23 AM   #1 
  - Seconded! (NT)  Tesha   Nov-15-11 07:38 AM   #3 
  - Some of those fields have proven more useful than others.  LAGC   Nov-15-11 07:32 AM   #2 
  - 83% for "other" - it isn't as black-and-white as you would like to think.  bananas   Nov-15-11 08:30 AM   #7 
     - FYI, I voted "Other" myself.  LAGC   Nov-15-11 08:53 AM   #8 
        - It's not my false dichotomy  bananas   Nov-15-11 09:12 AM   #11 
           - So THAT'S what this thread is about.  LAGC   Nov-15-11 09:20 AM   #13 
           - Well...  bananas   Nov-15-11 09:36 AM   #15 
              - Fair enough.  LAGC   Nov-15-11 09:39 AM   #17 
              - In other words: Appeal to Popularity ? Do you really think a poll establishes facts?  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 10:27 AM   #21 
                 - I'm just gauging people's perspectives. nt  bananas   Nov-15-11 11:12 AM   #26 
                    - No, you are push-polling, with a biased question and limited options for answers.  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 06:53 PM   #51 
                       - Nope. Limited options? It's a true-false question and I gave four options.  bananas   Nov-21-11 08:33 AM   #82 
                       - 29 votes: 38%-38%-0%-24%  bananas   Nov-22-11 12:03 PM   #88 
           - You could have just produced a single bit of knolwedge that came from some "other way of knowing"  cleanhippie   Nov-15-11 09:39 AM   #16 
              - How did you vote?  bananas   Nov-15-11 10:04 AM   #18 
                 - Oh lookie....more obfuscation.  cleanhippie   Nov-15-11 10:11 AM   #19 
                    - I've been waiting for weeks, it seems, for JUST ONE EXAMPLE!  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 10:29 AM   #22 
                       - Many examples have been given, and the current poll results are 37-37-0-26%  bananas   Nov-22-11 09:33 AM   #84 
                       - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Nov-22-11 07:23 PM   #94 
                       - Denial - it's not just a river in Egypt! nt  bananas   Nov-22-11 09:42 AM   #85 
                          - Are you talking to yourself?  cleanhippie   Nov-22-11 07:24 PM   #95 
  - Art, Math, Science, Engineering are all related.  RC   Nov-15-11 07:54 AM   #4 
  - There it is  Stuckinthebush   Nov-15-11 08:22 AM   #5 
  - Art is not "what you want it to be"?  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 08:27 AM   #6 
     - Good art can be reduced to numbers.  RC   Nov-15-11 09:11 AM   #10 
        - What kind of numbers?  bananas   Nov-15-11 09:15 AM   #12 
        - Start your education here. "math in art"  RC   Nov-15-11 10:15 AM   #20 
        - What are the numbers for Piss Christ or Jackson Pollock? Both of which I consider to be art, BTW.  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 09:25 AM   #14 
        - Platonic realism  tama   Nov-15-11 04:08 PM   #41 
        - Actually, no.  rrneck   Nov-15-11 06:19 PM   #46 
  - How about this view:  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 09:05 AM   #9 
  - Math is actually more the language by which humans communicate  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 10:34 AM   #23 
     - I always thought that was linguistics.  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 10:53 AM   #24 
     - Linguistics is the study of languages. Math is a language describing relationships within the  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 11:02 AM   #25 
     - No, "math" as a field generally refers to pure math, which has nothing to do with the physical world  bananas   Nov-15-11 11:19 AM   #27 
     - Oh god, I'd finally managed to block all my memories of ring and group theory...  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 11:24 AM   #29 
     - heh heh heh ... nt!  bananas   Nov-15-11 11:28 AM   #31 
     - I think one might want to talk to a mathematician before one makes such a  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 11:27 AM   #30 
        - rofl. nt  bananas   Nov-15-11 11:28 AM   #32 
     - Math is "a" language, yes.  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 11:21 AM   #28 
        - Don't leave out half the wording, or half the meaning of what I stated please.  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 11:35 AM   #34 
           - You originally said it weas "the" language. That may have been a simple misstatement on your part.  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 11:42 AM   #36 
              - Yes, THE LANGUAGE by which humans communicate without ambiguity!  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 12:31 PM   #38 
                 - OK, in that case I have to ask  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 12:36 PM   #39 
                    - Hold on, I see where I went off the rails originally.  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 12:40 PM   #40 
                       - You are very gracious, and I sometimes use modifiers in sentences in...  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 06:13 PM   #45 
                          - I think my comment below addresses this as well.  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 07:45 PM   #53 
     - By many ways.  tama   Nov-15-11 04:18 PM   #42 
     - +1 nt  rrneck   Nov-15-11 06:21 PM   #47 
  - Here's something derived from a "different way of knowing" - not sure if it meets your criteria  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 11:33 AM   #33 
  - Thanks, I was getting hungry, and ..  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 11:38 AM   #35 
  - Too bad, we could have had a nice chat. Enjoy your lunch.  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 11:43 AM   #37 
  - What is the meaning of "is"? ;)  tama   Nov-15-11 04:37 PM   #43 
  - I would argue against this universality...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-15-11 06:26 PM   #48 
  - I did say "a *degree* of universality"  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 07:41 PM   #52 
  - quantum mechanics called  qazplm   Nov-17-11 01:22 PM   #61 
     - It's worse than that  GliderGuider   Nov-17-11 01:45 PM   #62 
        - and those concepts also arent as fuzzy  qazplm   Nov-17-11 02:10 PM   #63 
           - Actually, I don't do much sifting any more.  GliderGuider   Nov-17-11 02:56 PM   #64 
              - I have no doubt  qazplm   Nov-17-11 03:21 PM   #65 
                 - You really don't know me very well, do you? nt  GliderGuider   Nov-17-11 03:50 PM   #66 
                    - well if you intend something  qazplm   Nov-17-11 06:51 PM   #68 
                       - No, the plain meaning works fine.  GliderGuider   Nov-17-11 07:01 PM   #69 
                          - the aspect that says  qazplm   Nov-17-11 07:28 PM   #70 
                             - I found that clinging to beliefs was actually hurting me.  GliderGuider   Nov-18-11 06:32 AM   #71 
                                - patronizing and quite frankly silly  qazplm   Nov-18-11 08:20 AM   #72 
                                - You've made personal comfort the metric for truth  Silent3   Nov-20-11 09:50 AM   #75 
                                   - No, I've discarded the notion of using "Truth" as a universal metric for acceptability.  GliderGuider   Nov-20-11 01:03 PM   #76 
                                      - Do you fancy yourself a Bodhisattva? Perhaps a Bodhisattva in training?  Silent3   Nov-20-11 02:15 PM   #77 
                                      - Nothing so exalted. I'm just a guy trying to get through life the best way I can.  GliderGuider   Nov-20-11 02:25 PM   #78 
                                         - lol  qazplm   Nov-20-11 04:20 PM   #79 
                                         - Ain't that the truth!  bananas   Nov-22-11 10:15 AM   #87 
                                      - pretty sure  qazplm   Nov-20-11 04:22 PM   #80 
                                         - Where did I say there was no value in seeking truth?  GliderGuider   Nov-20-11 04:32 PM   #81 
                                            - it feels like  qazplm   Nov-22-11 05:23 PM   #91 
                                               - If that's what you feel, you should trust your feelings.  GliderGuider   Nov-22-11 05:28 PM   #92 
  - Other: push poll.  darkstar3   Nov-15-11 06:00 PM   #44 
  - Be careful. You're assuming boundaries on the word "knowledge" that may not be justified.  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 07:46 PM   #54 
  - Be careful yourself, as you assume a fluidity to language that is unwarranted.  darkstar3   Nov-15-11 07:50 PM   #56 
     - Most people seriously underestimate the fluidity of language, especially in colloquial usage  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 07:51 PM   #57 
        - I disagree.  darkstar3   Nov-15-11 07:55 PM   #58 
           - Cool. That's how I see it too.  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 08:01 PM   #60 
  - No, engineering is not "just applied science"  bananas   Nov-18-11 11:44 AM   #73 
     - I have a BSME. Don't tell me my business.  darkstar3   Nov-18-11 01:00 PM   #74 
        - I guess there's not much room for aesthetics in mechanicle engineering  bananas   Nov-22-11 09:44 AM   #86 
           - Actually, it shoots your point in the foot, since math is in no way "a different way of knowing".  darkstar3   Nov-22-11 06:31 PM   #93 
              - Mathematical proofs are qualitatively different from scientific proofs.  bananas   Nov-25-11 03:30 PM   #96 
  - Mind if I fool around with your subject line?  rrneck   Nov-15-11 06:36 PM   #49 
  - Ah. That's better :-)  GliderGuider   Nov-15-11 07:49 PM   #55 
  - Let's go even further than our friend, Darkstar's push poll  MarkCharles   Nov-15-11 06:48 PM   #50 
  - Please see post #49. nt  rrneck   Nov-15-11 07:58 PM   #59 
  - Only science/maths helps you know things.  Donald Ian Rankin   Nov-17-11 05:46 PM   #67 
  - Science and math often deceive us into believing that we understand something ...  spin   Nov-21-11 12:41 PM   #83 
     - You have no clue  skepticscott   Nov-25-11 03:35 PM   #97 
  - Math, Science, important to Engineering, and usually interrelate... even art and religion to a point  Demstud   Nov-22-11 12:50 PM   #89 
  - Different methodologies, techniques, and disciplines, perhaps, but certainly NOT  MarkCharles   Nov-22-11 02:55 PM   #90 

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