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Reply #16: "I have no way of knowing" that is precisely the point... [View All]

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Humanist_Activist Donating Member (603 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-11 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. "I have no way of knowing" that is precisely the point...
but that doesn't remove your impression as being less real, and even you pointed out it could have been wrong. However, you could have followed up by asking him questions, or in other ways, that could have allowed you to get to know his emotional state, and that would have been empirical and it would have gained you knowledge.
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  -Can anyone provide even a single example of any knowledge gained by some "other way of knowing?" cleanhippie  Nov-08-11 07:00 PM   #0 
  - I know this  chaplainM   Nov-08-11 07:06 PM   #1 
  - You know, you just might win the thread with that one.  cleanhippie   Nov-08-11 09:29 PM   #32 
  - Yes, it's a story I told here before.  Deep13   Nov-08-11 07:08 PM   #2 
  - And what was the "knowledge" that you gained  skepticscott   Nov-08-11 07:21 PM   #5 
  - Well, now you're shifting the standards.  Deep13   Nov-08-11 07:32 PM   #7 
     - Well, do you think that anything  skepticscott   Nov-08-11 09:20 PM   #31 
  - I don't see how that is "another way of knowing"...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:02 PM   #8 
  - Well, then I guess I don't know what the OP means...  Deep13   Nov-08-11 08:10 PM   #10 
     - I think the OP is talking about something outside of empirical evidence...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:15 PM   #11 
        - Well, there was nothing empirical about this.  Deep13   Nov-08-11 08:20 PM   #14 
           - "I have no way of knowing" that is precisely the point...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:23 PM   #16 
           - "I have no way of knowing". I think you just answered your question.  cleanhippie   Nov-08-11 09:32 PM   #34 
  - No you actually didn't KNOW anything, you acted upon clues that registered with..  MarkCharles   Nov-08-11 08:10 PM   #9 
  - I did not think he was there to rob THAT store.  Deep13   Nov-08-11 08:16 PM   #12 
  - "we do not perceive everything sceintifically", of course not...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:27 PM   #19 
  - Logic has to be conscious. It is a rational process. nt  Deep13   Nov-08-11 08:31 PM   #20 
     - Hence my use of "rudimentary"...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:50 PM   #24 
  - Here's a book you might find interesting.  rrneck   Nov-08-11 08:34 PM   #22 
  - I'd call it gut feelings.  Manifestor_of_Light   Nov-15-11 12:15 AM   #171 
  - There was also nothing totally objective about the process,  humblebum   Nov-08-11 08:20 PM   #15 
     - Hence the reason why it wasn't knowledge gained...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:24 PM   #17 
        - We're defining knowledge differently.  Deep13   Nov-08-11 08:34 PM   #21 
        - Ehh, perhaps you should read my OP on this to get my perspective. n/t  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:51 PM   #26 
        - Except that you haven't provided your definition  skepticscott   Nov-10-11 05:39 AM   #54 
        - Totally different than the process of Logical Empiricism/ Scientific Method  humblebum   Nov-08-11 09:04 PM   #29 
           - Get your understanding of science right.  Odin2005   Nov-10-11 07:46 PM   #116 
              - Why would one make a hypothisis? nt  rrneck   Nov-11-11 10:10 AM   #129 
  - So what knowledge did you gain?  cleanhippie   Nov-08-11 09:31 PM   #33 
  - Supposedly, humans react the same way to the presence of a psychopath  ChadwickHenryWard   Nov-09-11 07:43 AM   #43 
  - I've SEEN that guy...  PassingFair   Nov-10-11 10:47 AM   #59 
  - That sounds like instinctive, unconscious reactions we have to body language.  Odin2005   Nov-10-11 07:39 PM   #115 
  - Yes  humblebum   Nov-08-11 07:14 PM   #3 
  - In other words  skepticscott   Nov-08-11 07:17 PM   #4 
     - No  humblebum   Nov-08-11 07:24 PM   #6 
     - Exactly.  cleanhippie   Nov-08-11 09:35 PM   #36 
  - Define "other way of knowing".  kwassa   Nov-08-11 08:17 PM   #13 
  - No one knows.  laconicsax   Nov-08-11 08:25 PM   #18 
     - Intuition was one, and some claimed it not other.  kwassa   Nov-08-11 08:44 PM   #23 
        - There are posters who claim other ways of knowing.  laconicsax   Nov-08-11 08:51 PM   #25 
           - I have other ways of knowing.  kwassa   Nov-08-11 09:00 PM   #27 
              - In other words, you have nothing. n/t  laconicsax   Nov-08-11 09:03 PM   #28 
              - oh no, I have everything.  kwassa   Nov-08-11 09:17 PM   #30 
                 - The prayer without ceasing?  laconicsax   Nov-08-11 09:44 PM   #37 
                    - "where you see contradiction, I see confrmation."  cleanhippie   Nov-09-11 10:30 AM   #47 
                       - Of course.  laconicsax   Nov-09-11 06:27 PM   #51 
              - If you have other ways of knowing, then surely you can provide us with the knowledge you gained?  cleanhippie   Nov-08-11 09:35 PM   #35 
  - yes  Angry Dragon   Nov-08-11 11:00 PM   #38 
  - Sure. I've learned a lot about people and relationships from literature. - n/t  Jim__   Nov-09-11 05:44 AM   #39 
  - Fiction or non-fiction?  LAGC   Nov-09-11 06:50 AM   #40 
     - I'm talking about fiction.  Jim__   Nov-09-11 08:13 AM   #44 
  - When the Moon Hits Your Eye Like a Big Pizza Pie, That's Amore'. nt  bananas   Nov-09-11 07:33 AM   #41 
  - Other than what?  bananas   Nov-09-11 07:34 AM   #42 
  - In the words of Carl Sagan:  MarkCharles   Nov-09-11 08:26 AM   #45 
  - +10000 for the Sagan link  Taverner   Nov-10-11 06:29 PM   #110 
  - Out of interest, what would you accept?  Nihil   Nov-09-11 08:39 AM   #46 
  - Post it and we will let general concensus decide.  cleanhippie   Nov-09-11 10:31 AM   #48 
  - When you say to someone  rrneck   Nov-09-11 10:58 AM   #49 
  - Dolphins, Whales, and Bats KNOW a World...  bvar22   Nov-09-11 03:55 PM   #50 
  - You are just illustrating the imprecise nature of the English language...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-09-11 11:20 PM   #52 
     - And you are attempting to change the meaning of the word "knowledge"  humblebum   Nov-10-11 02:38 AM   #53 
     - So answer the same question I posed above  skepticscott   Nov-10-11 05:52 AM   #55 
     - After everything that has been presented in this thread and  humblebum   Nov-10-11 09:44 AM   #57 
        - No you haven't answered the question from your perspective.  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:31 PM   #83 
        - Yes or no  skepticscott   Nov-10-11 05:39 PM   #105 
        - I think we both know that you will NEVER get an answer to that question.  cleanhippie   Nov-10-11 06:29 PM   #111 
        - Yes or no?  skepticscott   Nov-11-11 05:23 AM   #125 
        - Still pinned on this aren't you?  skepticscott   Nov-11-11 07:13 PM   #134 
     - "Knowledge is a much broader term than you are willing to admit"  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:25 PM   #82 
     - Acquired from where? nt  rrneck   Nov-10-11 10:59 AM   #61 
        - From interacting with the world around us. n/t  Humanist_Activist   Nov-10-11 02:24 PM   #91 
           - Interaction assumes  rrneck   Nov-11-11 10:13 AM   #130 
  - A TED Talk - Daniel Tammet: Different ways of knowing  Jim__   Nov-10-11 07:01 AM   #56 
  - Very interesting, but... According to the description on the web site:...  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 10:22 AM   #58 
  - True  rrneck   Nov-10-11 10:55 AM   #60 
  - So far, not really, but the effects of anyone's imagining CAN be!  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 11:08 AM   #63 
     - Yes you can quantify the results.  rrneck   Nov-10-11 11:14 AM   #64 
     - the results of Thomas Edison's imagination can quantified, etc. nt  humblebum   Nov-10-11 11:40 AM   #71 
     - Yes, the results can be quantified.  rrneck   Nov-10-11 11:56 AM   #74 
     - To my knowledge, no. But that does not negate the existence  humblebum   Nov-10-11 12:14 PM   #75 
        - Absolutely. nt  rrneck   Nov-10-11 12:15 PM   #76 
     - Thomas Edison's imagination didn't have "other ways of knowing", Edison spent  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:20 PM   #81 
        - I never said he did. the existence of other ways of knowing has been  humblebum   Nov-10-11 01:34 PM   #85 
           - "the existence of other ways of knowing has been clearly demonstrated here."  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:58 PM   #88 
     - Can anyone read your mind? Not yet! But don't think too much, it might..  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 02:53 PM   #94 
        - You still haven't answered the question.  rrneck   Nov-10-11 03:36 PM   #97 
           - You seem to equate any facet of the "interior lives of human beings" with the word..  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 03:48 PM   #100 
              - It's knowledge if you know about it.  rrneck   Nov-10-11 05:22 PM   #103 
                 - By that definition of yours, astrology, phrenology, numerology are all  MarkCharles   Nov-11-11 10:25 AM   #131 
                    - Yes. I consider it knowledge.  rrneck   Nov-11-11 02:23 PM   #132 
     - Now that is one of the most illogical statements I have yet to see.  humblebum   Nov-10-11 11:32 AM   #67 
        - I 'claimed that I didn't think that I could be taught anything that I hadn't already learned?  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:14 PM   #80 
           - Your words:  humblebum   Nov-10-11 01:31 PM   #84 
              - I am not talking there about "knowledge" that I am ignorant of, (of which there is a lot!)  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:40 PM   #86 
              - Your words, not mine. And many of the things I have been saying  humblebum   Nov-10-11 01:53 PM   #87 
                 - Very true....I agree with you for once about this:.......  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 02:09 PM   #89 
                    - I use Logical Positivism because it is the basis of the Scientific Method  humblebum   Nov-10-11 02:24 PM   #92 
                       - I'm sorry, but "Logical Positivism" is NOT the "basis", not even close  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 02:43 PM   #93 
                          - Escuse me but I think you are confusing positivism with Logical Positivism  humblebum   Nov-10-11 04:07 PM   #101 
  - clearly your knowledge of knowledge is very incomplete and no, it  humblebum   Nov-10-11 11:02 AM   #62 
  - You know, bum, I have recently come to really appreciate your posts.  cleanhippie   Nov-10-11 11:27 AM   #65 
  - I was wondering why you called him that name, but I guess it's his ..  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 11:32 AM   #68 
  - Well, I see I've awoken a sleeping giant of philosophy of science once again!  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 11:31 AM   #66 
  - I respect your way and have tried your way, but found it to be far  humblebum   Nov-10-11 11:37 AM   #70 
     - "MY" way, I don't own! It's really NOT MINE at all, it's the way in which most  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 11:54 AM   #72 
        - "21st century science, COMMERCE, and healthy interpersonal interactions are conducted."  humblebum   Nov-10-11 12:19 PM   #77 
           - Oh dear, now you're off on the "accusation" for all the ills of our economy because  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 12:48 PM   #78 
  - Just another made-up story by you  skepticscott   Nov-10-11 08:29 PM   #119 
  - Still no answer I see  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 07:21 AM   #137 
  - STILL waiting for you evidence  skepticscott   Nov-13-11 07:12 AM   #161 
  - I gained new knowledge watching the video.  Jim__   Nov-10-11 11:35 AM   #69 
     - I'll grant you ONE POINT, you "learned" something about how..  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:10 PM   #79 
  - I'm autistic, too, and I "see the world" differently than most people...  Odin2005   Nov-10-11 07:49 PM   #117 
     - Tammet is a savant. He has recited pi to over 22,000 digits from memory.  Jim__   Nov-10-11 09:18 PM   #120 
        - Having a particularly good memory isn't a different way of knowing  NMMNG   Nov-10-11 09:21 PM   #121 
           - That's more than a "good" memory.  Jim__   Nov-10-11 09:23 PM   #122 
              - It's still not "another way of knowing"  NMMNG   Nov-10-11 09:25 PM   #123 
                 - Did you watch the video? Did you see how he processes numbers?  Jim__   Nov-11-11 05:42 AM   #126 
  - An interesting thing happened to me once..  AsahinaKimi   Nov-10-11 11:55 AM   #73 
  - It's "Provincetown" not Providence town, but here's the question  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 02:23 PM   #90 
     - Except as I said...  AsahinaKimi   Nov-10-11 02:57 PM   #95 
        - Several logical fallacies in this last post.  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 03:21 PM   #96 
        - It was definately P town ..  AsahinaKimi   Nov-10-11 03:37 PM   #98 
           - Provincetown many times, Tahiti, never! Consider yourself very lucky  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 03:43 PM   #99 
              - Thanks, doumo arigatou  AsahinaKimi   Nov-10-11 05:26 PM   #104 
        - You are so right about this.  kwassa   Nov-10-11 06:42 PM   #114 
  - I have a completely closed mind on a particular subject.  bvar22   Nov-10-11 04:18 PM   #102 
  - The contra-positive, seldom a logical argument,  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 06:21 PM   #107 
  - Can anyone provide even a single example of any evidence by some "other way of knowing?"  Taverner   Nov-10-11 06:07 PM   #106 
  - How do you know the DNA test is not a dream? nt  LARED   Nov-10-11 06:27 PM   #108 
     - Because I cannot wake from the DNA test  Taverner   Nov-10-11 06:28 PM   #109 
        - But you can awake from a dream that you took a DNA test. nt  LARED   Nov-10-11 06:32 PM   #112 
           - You can. So take a moment, when dealing with reality, to ask yourself this question.  Taverner   Nov-10-11 06:33 PM   #113 
  - Here, let DeeHack Chopra explain it...  onager   Nov-10-11 08:21 PM   #118 
  - What in the fuck is he talking about? nt  rrneck   Nov-11-11 12:24 AM   #124 
     - Consciousness and the need for a method to study it.  Jim__   Nov-12-11 10:03 AM   #138 
        - Ah. I'll have amother look first chance I get. nt  rrneck   Nov-12-11 10:17 AM   #139 
        - I'm not sure that was it  Meshuga   Nov-12-11 10:52 AM   #140 
           - You are repeating question, but not the very specific context that she put it in.  Jim__   Nov-12-11 11:29 AM   #141 
              - "Directly onto her question?"  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 01:16 PM   #142 
              - It does NOT! It's a non-answer answer. It also flails around with some unique  MarkCharles   Nov-12-11 01:25 PM   # 
              - It does NOT! It's a non-answer answer. It also flails around with som  MarkCharles   Nov-12-11 01:25 PM   #144 
              - You do an excellent job of describing one way of knowing, but  humblebum   Nov-12-11 02:29 PM   #146 
                 - Still waiting for you to provide evidence  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 02:58 PM   #147 
                 - Still waiting for your answer to the question  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 03:00 PM   #148 
                 - "what do you consider things that are perceived, but do not qualify as knowledge?"  humblebum   Nov-12-11 03:26 PM   #153 
                 - Oh, and STILL waiting  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 03:04 PM   #149 
                    - You don't even have a leg to stand on, Bubba. The answer to  humblebum   Nov-12-11 03:07 PM   #150 
                       - Sorry, your old dodge of  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 04:01 PM   #154 
                       - You don't have a clue of what you are talking about, and the concept  humblebum   Nov-12-11 06:00 PM   #155 
                       - You will notice when humblebum starts to use the condescending terms like "bubba", he has lost...  cleanhippie   Nov-12-11 06:14 PM   #156 
                          - Why would you call "bubba" a condescending term? it's not meant  humblebum   Nov-12-11 07:29 PM   #157 
                             - Yeah, sure it is.  cleanhippie   Nov-12-11 07:41 PM   #158 
              - The answer is...  Meshuga   Nov-12-11 02:15 PM   #145 
                 - And your post #145 has nothing to do with his response to the question.  Jim__   Nov-12-11 03:10 PM   #152 
                    - Oh yes it does  Meshuga   Nov-12-11 08:59 PM   #160 
              - If not rambling then just a bunch of meaningless fluff  Meshuga   Nov-12-11 01:23 PM   #143 
                 - No, it's not meaningless fluff at all.  Jim__   Nov-12-11 03:08 PM   #151 
                    - Fluff galore  Meshuga   Nov-12-11 08:57 PM   #159 
                       - Too late. You already documented your objections in your post #140.  Jim__   Nov-13-11 07:52 AM   #162 
                          - Too late? His answer is still rambling bullshit no matter what you say  Meshuga   Nov-13-11 10:47 AM   #163 
                             - I don't subscribe to Chopra's worldview, yet I find his answer is both coherent and sensible.  Jim__   Nov-13-11 12:35 PM   #164 
                                - Oy vey!  Meshuga   Nov-13-11 04:19 PM   #165 
                                   - I haven't referred to people as idiots nor have I referred to any statements as rambling bullshit.  Jim__   Nov-14-11 06:32 AM   #166 
                                      - Ironically you are the one making this conversation about me  Meshuga   Nov-14-11 10:15 AM   #167 
                                         - Apologists? Do you even have a clue as to what you're talking about?  Jim__   Nov-14-11 10:38 AM   #168 
                                            - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-14-11 09:02 PM   #169 
                                               - Exactly  Meshuga   Nov-14-11 10:20 PM   #170 
  - Knowledge is something you acquire through study  Meshuga   Nov-11-11 10:04 AM   #127 
  - How would one gain knowledge of oneself?  rrneck   Nov-11-11 10:07 AM   #128 
     - Through self-observation and reason n/t  Meshuga   Nov-11-11 07:17 PM   #135 
        - That makes sense  rrneck   Nov-11-11 08:09 PM   #136 
  - Here you go.  westerebus   Nov-11-11 05:07 PM   #133 

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