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skepticscott Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-08-11 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. And what was the "knowledge" that you gained
as distinct from simply a feeling of unease? How did you verify that this "knowledge" was correct?
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  -Can anyone provide even a single example of any knowledge gained by some "other way of knowing?" cleanhippie  Nov-08-11 07:00 PM   #0 
  - I know this  chaplainM   Nov-08-11 07:06 PM   #1 
  - You know, you just might win the thread with that one.  cleanhippie   Nov-08-11 09:29 PM   #32 
  - Yes, it's a story I told here before.  Deep13   Nov-08-11 07:08 PM   #2 
  - And what was the "knowledge" that you gained  skepticscott   Nov-08-11 07:21 PM   #5 
  - Well, now you're shifting the standards.  Deep13   Nov-08-11 07:32 PM   #7 
     - Well, do you think that anything  skepticscott   Nov-08-11 09:20 PM   #31 
  - I don't see how that is "another way of knowing"...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:02 PM   #8 
  - Well, then I guess I don't know what the OP means...  Deep13   Nov-08-11 08:10 PM   #10 
     - I think the OP is talking about something outside of empirical evidence...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:15 PM   #11 
        - Well, there was nothing empirical about this.  Deep13   Nov-08-11 08:20 PM   #14 
           - "I have no way of knowing" that is precisely the point...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:23 PM   #16 
           - "I have no way of knowing". I think you just answered your question.  cleanhippie   Nov-08-11 09:32 PM   #34 
  - No you actually didn't KNOW anything, you acted upon clues that registered with..  MarkCharles   Nov-08-11 08:10 PM   #9 
  - I did not think he was there to rob THAT store.  Deep13   Nov-08-11 08:16 PM   #12 
  - "we do not perceive everything sceintifically", of course not...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:27 PM   #19 
  - Logic has to be conscious. It is a rational process. nt  Deep13   Nov-08-11 08:31 PM   #20 
     - Hence my use of "rudimentary"...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:50 PM   #24 
  - Here's a book you might find interesting.  rrneck   Nov-08-11 08:34 PM   #22 
  - I'd call it gut feelings.  Manifestor_of_Light   Nov-15-11 12:15 AM   #171 
  - There was also nothing totally objective about the process,  humblebum   Nov-08-11 08:20 PM   #15 
     - Hence the reason why it wasn't knowledge gained...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:24 PM   #17 
        - We're defining knowledge differently.  Deep13   Nov-08-11 08:34 PM   #21 
        - Ehh, perhaps you should read my OP on this to get my perspective. n/t  Humanist_Activist   Nov-08-11 08:51 PM   #26 
        - Except that you haven't provided your definition  skepticscott   Nov-10-11 05:39 AM   #54 
        - Totally different than the process of Logical Empiricism/ Scientific Method  humblebum   Nov-08-11 09:04 PM   #29 
           - Get your understanding of science right.  Odin2005   Nov-10-11 07:46 PM   #116 
              - Why would one make a hypothisis? nt  rrneck   Nov-11-11 10:10 AM   #129 
  - So what knowledge did you gain?  cleanhippie   Nov-08-11 09:31 PM   #33 
  - Supposedly, humans react the same way to the presence of a psychopath  ChadwickHenryWard   Nov-09-11 07:43 AM   #43 
  - I've SEEN that guy...  PassingFair   Nov-10-11 10:47 AM   #59 
  - That sounds like instinctive, unconscious reactions we have to body language.  Odin2005   Nov-10-11 07:39 PM   #115 
  - Yes  humblebum   Nov-08-11 07:14 PM   #3 
  - In other words  skepticscott   Nov-08-11 07:17 PM   #4 
     - No  humblebum   Nov-08-11 07:24 PM   #6 
     - Exactly.  cleanhippie   Nov-08-11 09:35 PM   #36 
  - Define "other way of knowing".  kwassa   Nov-08-11 08:17 PM   #13 
  - No one knows.  laconicsax   Nov-08-11 08:25 PM   #18 
     - Intuition was one, and some claimed it not other.  kwassa   Nov-08-11 08:44 PM   #23 
        - There are posters who claim other ways of knowing.  laconicsax   Nov-08-11 08:51 PM   #25 
           - I have other ways of knowing.  kwassa   Nov-08-11 09:00 PM   #27 
              - In other words, you have nothing. n/t  laconicsax   Nov-08-11 09:03 PM   #28 
              - oh no, I have everything.  kwassa   Nov-08-11 09:17 PM   #30 
                 - The prayer without ceasing?  laconicsax   Nov-08-11 09:44 PM   #37 
                    - "where you see contradiction, I see confrmation."  cleanhippie   Nov-09-11 10:30 AM   #47 
                       - Of course.  laconicsax   Nov-09-11 06:27 PM   #51 
              - If you have other ways of knowing, then surely you can provide us with the knowledge you gained?  cleanhippie   Nov-08-11 09:35 PM   #35 
  - yes  Angry Dragon   Nov-08-11 11:00 PM   #38 
  - Sure. I've learned a lot about people and relationships from literature. - n/t  Jim__   Nov-09-11 05:44 AM   #39 
  - Fiction or non-fiction?  LAGC   Nov-09-11 06:50 AM   #40 
     - I'm talking about fiction.  Jim__   Nov-09-11 08:13 AM   #44 
  - When the Moon Hits Your Eye Like a Big Pizza Pie, That's Amore'. nt  bananas   Nov-09-11 07:33 AM   #41 
  - Other than what?  bananas   Nov-09-11 07:34 AM   #42 
  - In the words of Carl Sagan:  MarkCharles   Nov-09-11 08:26 AM   #45 
  - +10000 for the Sagan link  Taverner   Nov-10-11 06:29 PM   #110 
  - Out of interest, what would you accept?  Nihil   Nov-09-11 08:39 AM   #46 
  - Post it and we will let general concensus decide.  cleanhippie   Nov-09-11 10:31 AM   #48 
  - When you say to someone  rrneck   Nov-09-11 10:58 AM   #49 
  - Dolphins, Whales, and Bats KNOW a World...  bvar22   Nov-09-11 03:55 PM   #50 
  - You are just illustrating the imprecise nature of the English language...  Humanist_Activist   Nov-09-11 11:20 PM   #52 
     - And you are attempting to change the meaning of the word "knowledge"  humblebum   Nov-10-11 02:38 AM   #53 
     - So answer the same question I posed above  skepticscott   Nov-10-11 05:52 AM   #55 
     - After everything that has been presented in this thread and  humblebum   Nov-10-11 09:44 AM   #57 
        - No you haven't answered the question from your perspective.  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:31 PM   #83 
        - Yes or no  skepticscott   Nov-10-11 05:39 PM   #105 
        - I think we both know that you will NEVER get an answer to that question.  cleanhippie   Nov-10-11 06:29 PM   #111 
        - Yes or no?  skepticscott   Nov-11-11 05:23 AM   #125 
        - Still pinned on this aren't you?  skepticscott   Nov-11-11 07:13 PM   #134 
     - "Knowledge is a much broader term than you are willing to admit"  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:25 PM   #82 
     - Acquired from where? nt  rrneck   Nov-10-11 10:59 AM   #61 
        - From interacting with the world around us. n/t  Humanist_Activist   Nov-10-11 02:24 PM   #91 
           - Interaction assumes  rrneck   Nov-11-11 10:13 AM   #130 
  - A TED Talk - Daniel Tammet: Different ways of knowing  Jim__   Nov-10-11 07:01 AM   #56 
  - Very interesting, but... According to the description on the web site:...  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 10:22 AM   #58 
  - True  rrneck   Nov-10-11 10:55 AM   #60 
  - So far, not really, but the effects of anyone's imagining CAN be!  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 11:08 AM   #63 
     - Yes you can quantify the results.  rrneck   Nov-10-11 11:14 AM   #64 
     - the results of Thomas Edison's imagination can quantified, etc. nt  humblebum   Nov-10-11 11:40 AM   #71 
     - Yes, the results can be quantified.  rrneck   Nov-10-11 11:56 AM   #74 
     - To my knowledge, no. But that does not negate the existence  humblebum   Nov-10-11 12:14 PM   #75 
        - Absolutely. nt  rrneck   Nov-10-11 12:15 PM   #76 
     - Thomas Edison's imagination didn't have "other ways of knowing", Edison spent  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:20 PM   #81 
        - I never said he did. the existence of other ways of knowing has been  humblebum   Nov-10-11 01:34 PM   #85 
           - "the existence of other ways of knowing has been clearly demonstrated here."  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:58 PM   #88 
     - Can anyone read your mind? Not yet! But don't think too much, it might..  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 02:53 PM   #94 
        - You still haven't answered the question.  rrneck   Nov-10-11 03:36 PM   #97 
           - You seem to equate any facet of the "interior lives of human beings" with the word..  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 03:48 PM   #100 
              - It's knowledge if you know about it.  rrneck   Nov-10-11 05:22 PM   #103 
                 - By that definition of yours, astrology, phrenology, numerology are all  MarkCharles   Nov-11-11 10:25 AM   #131 
                    - Yes. I consider it knowledge.  rrneck   Nov-11-11 02:23 PM   #132 
     - Now that is one of the most illogical statements I have yet to see.  humblebum   Nov-10-11 11:32 AM   #67 
        - I 'claimed that I didn't think that I could be taught anything that I hadn't already learned?  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:14 PM   #80 
           - Your words:  humblebum   Nov-10-11 01:31 PM   #84 
              - I am not talking there about "knowledge" that I am ignorant of, (of which there is a lot!)  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:40 PM   #86 
              - Your words, not mine. And many of the things I have been saying  humblebum   Nov-10-11 01:53 PM   #87 
                 - Very true....I agree with you for once about this:.......  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 02:09 PM   #89 
                    - I use Logical Positivism because it is the basis of the Scientific Method  humblebum   Nov-10-11 02:24 PM   #92 
                       - I'm sorry, but "Logical Positivism" is NOT the "basis", not even close  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 02:43 PM   #93 
                          - Escuse me but I think you are confusing positivism with Logical Positivism  humblebum   Nov-10-11 04:07 PM   #101 
  - clearly your knowledge of knowledge is very incomplete and no, it  humblebum   Nov-10-11 11:02 AM   #62 
  - You know, bum, I have recently come to really appreciate your posts.  cleanhippie   Nov-10-11 11:27 AM   #65 
  - I was wondering why you called him that name, but I guess it's his ..  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 11:32 AM   #68 
  - Well, I see I've awoken a sleeping giant of philosophy of science once again!  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 11:31 AM   #66 
  - I respect your way and have tried your way, but found it to be far  humblebum   Nov-10-11 11:37 AM   #70 
     - "MY" way, I don't own! It's really NOT MINE at all, it's the way in which most  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 11:54 AM   #72 
        - "21st century science, COMMERCE, and healthy interpersonal interactions are conducted."  humblebum   Nov-10-11 12:19 PM   #77 
           - Oh dear, now you're off on the "accusation" for all the ills of our economy because  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 12:48 PM   #78 
  - Just another made-up story by you  skepticscott   Nov-10-11 08:29 PM   #119 
  - Still no answer I see  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 07:21 AM   #137 
  - STILL waiting for you evidence  skepticscott   Nov-13-11 07:12 AM   #161 
  - I gained new knowledge watching the video.  Jim__   Nov-10-11 11:35 AM   #69 
     - I'll grant you ONE POINT, you "learned" something about how..  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 01:10 PM   #79 
  - I'm autistic, too, and I "see the world" differently than most people...  Odin2005   Nov-10-11 07:49 PM   #117 
     - Tammet is a savant. He has recited pi to over 22,000 digits from memory.  Jim__   Nov-10-11 09:18 PM   #120 
        - Having a particularly good memory isn't a different way of knowing  NMMNG   Nov-10-11 09:21 PM   #121 
           - That's more than a "good" memory.  Jim__   Nov-10-11 09:23 PM   #122 
              - It's still not "another way of knowing"  NMMNG   Nov-10-11 09:25 PM   #123 
                 - Did you watch the video? Did you see how he processes numbers?  Jim__   Nov-11-11 05:42 AM   #126 
  - An interesting thing happened to me once..  AsahinaKimi   Nov-10-11 11:55 AM   #73 
  - It's "Provincetown" not Providence town, but here's the question  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 02:23 PM   #90 
     - Except as I said...  AsahinaKimi   Nov-10-11 02:57 PM   #95 
        - Several logical fallacies in this last post.  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 03:21 PM   #96 
        - It was definately P town ..  AsahinaKimi   Nov-10-11 03:37 PM   #98 
           - Provincetown many times, Tahiti, never! Consider yourself very lucky  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 03:43 PM   #99 
              - Thanks, doumo arigatou  AsahinaKimi   Nov-10-11 05:26 PM   #104 
        - You are so right about this.  kwassa   Nov-10-11 06:42 PM   #114 
  - I have a completely closed mind on a particular subject.  bvar22   Nov-10-11 04:18 PM   #102 
  - The contra-positive, seldom a logical argument,  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 06:21 PM   #107 
  - Can anyone provide even a single example of any evidence by some "other way of knowing?"  Taverner   Nov-10-11 06:07 PM   #106 
  - How do you know the DNA test is not a dream? nt  LARED   Nov-10-11 06:27 PM   #108 
     - Because I cannot wake from the DNA test  Taverner   Nov-10-11 06:28 PM   #109 
        - But you can awake from a dream that you took a DNA test. nt  LARED   Nov-10-11 06:32 PM   #112 
           - You can. So take a moment, when dealing with reality, to ask yourself this question.  Taverner   Nov-10-11 06:33 PM   #113 
  - Here, let DeeHack Chopra explain it...  onager   Nov-10-11 08:21 PM   #118 
  - What in the fuck is he talking about? nt  rrneck   Nov-11-11 12:24 AM   #124 
     - Consciousness and the need for a method to study it.  Jim__   Nov-12-11 10:03 AM   #138 
        - Ah. I'll have amother look first chance I get. nt  rrneck   Nov-12-11 10:17 AM   #139 
        - I'm not sure that was it  Meshuga   Nov-12-11 10:52 AM   #140 
           - You are repeating question, but not the very specific context that she put it in.  Jim__   Nov-12-11 11:29 AM   #141 
              - "Directly onto her question?"  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 01:16 PM   #142 
              - It does NOT! It's a non-answer answer. It also flails around with some unique  MarkCharles   Nov-12-11 01:25 PM   # 
              - It does NOT! It's a non-answer answer. It also flails around with som  MarkCharles   Nov-12-11 01:25 PM   #144 
              - You do an excellent job of describing one way of knowing, but  humblebum   Nov-12-11 02:29 PM   #146 
                 - Still waiting for you to provide evidence  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 02:58 PM   #147 
                 - Still waiting for your answer to the question  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 03:00 PM   #148 
                 - "what do you consider things that are perceived, but do not qualify as knowledge?"  humblebum   Nov-12-11 03:26 PM   #153 
                 - Oh, and STILL waiting  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 03:04 PM   #149 
                    - You don't even have a leg to stand on, Bubba. The answer to  humblebum   Nov-12-11 03:07 PM   #150 
                       - Sorry, your old dodge of  skepticscott   Nov-12-11 04:01 PM   #154 
                       - You don't have a clue of what you are talking about, and the concept  humblebum   Nov-12-11 06:00 PM   #155 
                       - You will notice when humblebum starts to use the condescending terms like "bubba", he has lost...  cleanhippie   Nov-12-11 06:14 PM   #156 
                          - Why would you call "bubba" a condescending term? it's not meant  humblebum   Nov-12-11 07:29 PM   #157 
                             - Yeah, sure it is.  cleanhippie   Nov-12-11 07:41 PM   #158 
              - The answer is...  Meshuga   Nov-12-11 02:15 PM   #145 
                 - And your post #145 has nothing to do with his response to the question.  Jim__   Nov-12-11 03:10 PM   #152 
                    - Oh yes it does  Meshuga   Nov-12-11 08:59 PM   #160 
              - If not rambling then just a bunch of meaningless fluff  Meshuga   Nov-12-11 01:23 PM   #143 
                 - No, it's not meaningless fluff at all.  Jim__   Nov-12-11 03:08 PM   #151 
                    - Fluff galore  Meshuga   Nov-12-11 08:57 PM   #159 
                       - Too late. You already documented your objections in your post #140.  Jim__   Nov-13-11 07:52 AM   #162 
                          - Too late? His answer is still rambling bullshit no matter what you say  Meshuga   Nov-13-11 10:47 AM   #163 
                             - I don't subscribe to Chopra's worldview, yet I find his answer is both coherent and sensible.  Jim__   Nov-13-11 12:35 PM   #164 
                                - Oy vey!  Meshuga   Nov-13-11 04:19 PM   #165 
                                   - I haven't referred to people as idiots nor have I referred to any statements as rambling bullshit.  Jim__   Nov-14-11 06:32 AM   #166 
                                      - Ironically you are the one making this conversation about me  Meshuga   Nov-14-11 10:15 AM   #167 
                                         - Apologists? Do you even have a clue as to what you're talking about?  Jim__   Nov-14-11 10:38 AM   #168 
                                            - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-14-11 09:02 PM   #169 
                                               - Exactly  Meshuga   Nov-14-11 10:20 PM   #170 
  - Knowledge is something you acquire through study  Meshuga   Nov-11-11 10:04 AM   #127 
  - How would one gain knowledge of oneself?  rrneck   Nov-11-11 10:07 AM   #128 
     - Through self-observation and reason n/t  Meshuga   Nov-11-11 07:17 PM   #135 
        - That makes sense  rrneck   Nov-11-11 08:09 PM   #136 
  - Here you go.  westerebus   Nov-11-11 05:07 PM   #133 

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