You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #78: No Other-Wayers have trotted out Leo Szilard yet? [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
onager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-06-11 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
78. No Other-Wayers have trotted out Leo Szilard yet?
Szilard credited a "flash of intuition" with his idea of the nuclear chain reaction - which came to him suddenly while standing at a London traffic light in Sept. 1933.

Of course, turning that intuition into reality took years of hard work by hundreds of scientists and about $2 billion. Culminating in another kind of flash over Hiroshima.

Never mind, I think I just answered my own question - what respectable Other-Wayer wants that vaunted, mysterious, sacred attribute of intuition linked with the worse weapon ever imagined?

There's also the incovenient fact that Szilard, culturally a Hungarian Jew, was - WHOOPS! - apparently an atheist. He had a very close friendship with cancer researcher and militant atheist George Klein - author of "The Atheist and the Holy City: Encounters and Reflections."

I am, indeed, an atheist. My attitude is based on faith...the absence of a creator, the nonexistence of God is my childhood faith, my adult belief, unshakable and holy. - George Klein
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
  -Different ways of knowing? cleanhippie  Nov-05-11 11:41 AM   #0 
  - Different ways of knowing.  Jim__   Nov-05-11 12:58 PM   #1 
  - *yawn*  trotsky   Nov-05-11 01:01 PM   #2 
  - C'mon, cleanhippie. We know from discussions right here in R/T that two of them are hearsay....  laconicsax   Nov-05-11 01:27 PM   #3 
  - Imagination and fantasy are powerful personal experiences, but they certainly cannot...  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 01:58 PM   #4 
  - There is no knowledge but science and cleanhippie is its prophet.  rug   Nov-05-11 02:04 PM   #5 
  - Well, call it  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 05:10 PM   #8 
     - Except the claim is science is the only means to knowledge.  rug   Nov-05-11 06:20 PM   #9 
        - Anyone questioning that such is true probably has no concept of what science is...  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 06:37 PM   #10 
        - You have it backwards.  rug   Nov-05-11 06:43 PM   #11 
           - I'm sorry your post makes no sense  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 07:11 PM   #12 
              - " Science and fantasy, do not mix."  NMMNG   Nov-05-11 07:23 PM   #15 
              - OOOPS, Pardon me, N2d2!!!!  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 07:50 PM   #23 
              - I stopped reading after "infinite possibilities of the human mind."  rug   Nov-05-11 07:39 PM   #18 
                 - Well of course you did, you had yourself limited possibilities to only 2!  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 07:52 PM   #24 
                    - You left out another possibilty.  rug   Nov-05-11 07:56 PM   #27 
                    - Another totally insulting post for me to complain about. Meaningless, and  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 08:11 PM   #34 
                       - Lay off?  rug   Nov-05-11 08:15 PM   #36 
                    - Deleted message  Name removed   Nov-06-11 11:15 AM   #77 
        - When stated as I have done  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 07:37 PM   #17 
           - Your qualifier of yet leaves open "other ways of knowing".  rug   Nov-05-11 07:40 PM   #19 
           - And this is a blinding revelation to you?  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 07:47 PM   #22 
              - Not to me.  rug   Nov-05-11 07:52 PM   #25 
                 - And you have been enlightened beyond that  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 07:57 PM   #29 
                    - Sure,  rug   Nov-05-11 08:03 PM   #30 
                       - Revelation is a way  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 08:13 PM   #35 
           - Hope you're not holding your breath waiting, this is the challenge they never..  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 07:55 PM   #26 
  - IMO too many people mistake intuition for knowledge.  Odin2005   Nov-05-11 02:10 PM   #6 
  - Intuition is a type of knowledge  kwassa   Nov-05-11 07:25 PM   #16 
     - In other words  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 07:43 PM   #21 
     - Here is the definition of knowledge.  kwassa   Nov-05-11 08:26 PM   #38 
        - Well, no it doesn't  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 09:10 PM   #41 
           - Yes, it does. Acquistion through experience.  kwassa   Nov-05-11 09:17 PM   #42 
              - Nice try, but fail  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 10:11 PM   #44 
                 - Who declares fail? You?  kwassa   Nov-05-11 10:21 PM   #46 
                    - Meaningless babble  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 10:31 PM   #49 
                       - not to a rational person.  kwassa   Nov-05-11 10:34 PM   #50 
                          - Does Jesus like it when you insult people...  trotsky   Nov-06-11 08:12 AM   #61 
                          - Jesus likes it when I insult you. He told me so.  kwassa   Nov-06-11 09:23 PM   #120 
                             - Aw, kwassa. I can always count on you to show me what a True Christian is like.  trotsky   Nov-07-11 06:11 AM   #121 
                             - Hang in there kwassa, you are only telling the truth. Intuition is  humblebum   Nov-07-11 08:47 AM   #122 
                                - " Intuition is a way of obtaining knowledge, even weak or failed intuition."  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 04:52 PM   #126 
                          - And do you have any documentation  skepticscott   Nov-06-11 03:29 PM   #102 
     - Intuitions themselves have no information content.  Odin2005   Nov-05-11 08:16 PM   #37 
     - You are totally incorrect  kwassa   Nov-05-11 08:39 PM   #39 
        - If you're including  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 10:20 PM   #45 
           - you are grasping at non-existent straws  kwassa   Nov-05-11 10:30 PM   #48 
              - And how often is it not?  skepticscott   Nov-06-11 05:20 AM   #56 
     - Except when it came to how best to treat his cancer...  Silent3   Nov-06-11 07:24 AM   #59 
        - Very low. No one is claiming that intuition or any method other than  humblebum   Nov-06-11 07:43 AM   #60 
        - Give examples of these "other ways of knowing" and what knowledge we have gotten. Can You?  cleanhippie   Nov-06-11 08:47 AM   #65 
        - I never said anything about "objective".  Silent3   Nov-06-11 09:09 AM   #66 
        - I suspect if you looked at all of Jobs'  skepticscott   Nov-06-11 03:34 PM   #103 
  - You're being unfair  NMMNG   Nov-05-11 04:48 PM   #7 
  - MY voices keep saying.. "clean me" .. "clean me"!!! I ignore them!  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 07:15 PM   #13 
     - LOL  NMMNG   Nov-05-11 07:19 PM   #14 
     - Probably both..........actually, it's the spills and drips that have been there for  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 07:57 PM   #28 
     - You should listen to them.  rug   Nov-05-11 07:41 PM   #20 
        - I should listen to voices in my refrigerator? Voices that come from my own..  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 08:03 PM   #31 
           - Whatever it takes to get you to clean it.  rug   Nov-05-11 08:05 PM   #32 
              - I don't need "whatever it takes", nor does my refrigerator.....  MarkCharles   Nov-05-11 08:08 PM   #33 
  - As soon as an atheist admits that other ways of knowing do exist,  humblebum   Nov-05-11 08:39 PM   #40 
  - Agreed.  kwassa   Nov-05-11 09:19 PM   #43 
  - If it is "obvious to many that they do exist  skepticscott   Nov-05-11 10:27 PM   #47 
  - Same old line, and same old accusations. And, you are fine example  humblebum   Nov-05-11 10:53 PM   #51 
  - Fine, then you'll have no trouble repeating them here  skepticscott   Nov-06-11 05:16 AM   #55 
     - Now you are being totally dishonest about anything that I've said.  humblebum   Nov-06-11 06:23 AM   #57 
        - That is SOME squirm you have going there.  cleanhippie   Nov-06-11 12:31 PM   #85 
        - In other words, you can't provide any examples  skepticscott   Nov-06-11 03:39 PM   #106 
  - I hope you are not writing this on your IPad.  kwassa   Nov-05-11 11:01 PM   #52 
     - Great example. nt  humblebum   Nov-05-11 11:27 PM   #53 
     - If you go by the very quote you cite  skepticscott   Nov-06-11 05:01 AM   #54 
     - You are just kinda "out there", aren't you? Not really being  humblebum   Nov-06-11 06:36 AM   #58 
        - OK, I'll ask, (assuming I am as unable to "grasp", as you accuse atheists of being)...  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 08:31 AM   #63 
        - Oh great. Now your infallible method has become circular reasoning.  humblebum   Nov-06-11 09:11 AM   #67 
           - A pretty good attempt to avoid answering the question, but  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 09:19 AM   #68 
              - Actually it answered the question perfectly. nt  humblebum   Nov-06-11 09:23 AM   #69 
              - You have it exactly right. Humblebum will NEVER provide a single example. EVER.  cleanhippie   Nov-06-11 09:26 AM   #70 
                 - Wrong. I just don't provide answers you can understand, like  humblebum   Nov-06-11 09:34 AM   #71 
                 - Just one example is all that being asked for, and you cannot do it.  cleanhippie   Nov-06-11 09:42 AM   #72 
                    - Cleanhippie, you just don't understand, you're not old enough, smart enough, or  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 09:56 AM   #75 
                    - Hippie, this is beginning to go from comical to hilarious. You asked me  humblebum   Nov-06-11 12:01 PM   #79 
                       - You're right. In the example of the historian that you give, he could do archival research.  Jim__   Nov-06-11 12:26 PM   #82 
                       - I asked you for any knowledge gained though some "other way of knowing", and you have provided ZIP!  cleanhippie   Nov-06-11 12:28 PM   #83 
                       - Why is that I expected that answer? From this point on all  humblebum   Nov-06-11 12:33 PM   #86 
                          - Just one, humblebum. Just one. And. You. Can't. Do. It.  cleanhippie   Nov-06-11 12:40 PM   #87 
                             - Don't look now. But I did it and have done. I can't be to blame if  humblebum   Nov-06-11 12:52 PM   #88 
                                - Just one example. And you can't do it.  cleanhippie   Nov-06-11 01:03 PM   #89 
                                - You consider knowledge of the existence of Socrates...  Silent3   Nov-06-11 02:28 PM   #91 
                                   - Facts are what they are. Science or to more precise logical empiricism  humblebum   Nov-06-11 02:40 PM   #92 
                                      - Historical documents are a form of empirical evidence  Silent3   Nov-06-11 03:42 PM   #108 
                       - You seem to be confusing "CONCEPTS" with the request for "EXAMPLES"  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 02:43 PM   #93 
                          - I have given examples of concepts, concepts, examples, and examples of examples.  humblebum   Nov-06-11 02:53 PM   #94 
                             - Not even ONE example?? Just concepts, sorry... I listed my darn microwave oven!...  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 04:14 PM   #112 
                                - You should begin to discern another pattern here  skepticscott   Nov-06-11 04:24 PM   #113 
                                - Ah yes, it's in "heaven" where he puts his great ideas, and we should  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 06:53 PM   #116 
                                - Let's see.You have been here since October 31st and yet you claim  humblebum   Nov-06-11 07:17 PM   #118 
                 - Beginning to see a pattern here, (unable to "grasp" as I am), a pattern of  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 09:50 AM   #73 
                 - He will keep swinging as long as you keep pitching...  cleanhippie   Nov-06-11 09:54 AM   #74 
                 - Thanks! How about a game of catch, between two guys who cannot "grasp"  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 09:59 AM   #76 
                 - Oh great. Tag team atheism again. nt  humblebum   Nov-06-11 12:03 PM   #80 
                    - Just. One. Example.  cleanhippie   Nov-06-11 12:29 PM   #84 
                    - Playing catch? American past-time, not exactly professional wrestling  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 04:46 PM   #114 
                 - Humblebum is highly trained  EvolveOrConvolve   Nov-12-11 01:49 AM   #157 
        - And again, you have no arguments  skepticscott   Nov-06-11 03:26 PM   #101 
     - Why, are you using your Lisa? n/t  trotsky   Nov-06-11 08:21 AM   #62 
        - Great point! Jobs' "intuition" had some amazing strike-outs in his career of  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 08:36 AM   #64 
  - What knowledge has been gained through these other methods? nt  ZombieHorde   Nov-06-11 03:41 PM   #107 
  - No Other-Wayers have trotted out Leo Szilard yet?  onager   Nov-06-11 11:42 AM   #78 
  - And your point is? He was an intelligent man who understood  humblebum   Nov-06-11 12:08 PM   #81 
     - Ideas, imagination, dreams, fantasies, random juxtapositions of thoughts,  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 02:27 PM   #90 
     - Looks like you got a little anti-christian thing goin' on there that  humblebum   Nov-06-11 02:56 PM   #95 
        - More than one, but no concrete examples, just your own statements  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 03:03 PM   #96 
        - I never said you mentioned epistemology, but that is exactly what other ways of knowing involves.  humblebum   Nov-06-11 03:13 PM   #98 
           - But, once again, you never mentioned, "epistemology"..  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 03:22 PM   #100 
              - Now that's a good one.  humblebum   Nov-06-11 08:09 PM   #119 
        - How should a person figure out which epistemologies are viable, and which ones are not viable?  ZombieHorde   Nov-06-11 03:36 PM   #105 
           - Well, the word actually means the STUDY of the concepts of Knowledge, not the  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 03:51 PM   #110 
     - Let me get this straight, Pope so-and-so condemned a scientist, and you claim this as  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 03:05 PM   #97 
     - Yeh, Uh huh. Whatever makes you happy.  humblebum   Nov-06-11 03:20 PM   #99 
        - Nothing you say bothers me. I sometimes laugh out loud when I read what...  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 03:35 PM   #104 
           - Welcome to DU!  skepticscott   Nov-06-11 03:46 PM   #109 
           - Thank you for your welcome. I have been admiring many of your ...  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 03:55 PM   #111 
           - First of all, I commend you for being so logical. You must also  humblebum   Nov-06-11 06:38 PM   #115 
              - So, what you're saying is that YOUR bridge didn't collapse so therefore  MarkCharles   Nov-06-11 07:00 PM   #117 
     - Incredibly bizarre response, even from you.  onager   Nov-10-11 08:15 PM   #134 
  - From the title (and this being the religion and theology forum)...  Meshuga   Nov-07-11 08:17 PM   #123 
  - Nicomachean Ethics  tama   Nov-10-11 04:38 PM   #124 
  - Using the scientific method only, demonstrate how you know you love someone.  rug   Nov-10-11 04:51 PM   #125 
  - A first grader asks Einstein to prove the theory of relativity.  MarkCharles   Nov-10-11 06:44 PM   #127 
     - Love and hate are not knowledge? That's one of the critera for psychopathy.  rug   Nov-10-11 07:11 PM   #128 
        - It's anti-social disorder, not psychopathy.  laconicsax   Nov-10-11 07:15 PM   #129 
        - I prefer the older term. Still, if the shoe fits . . .  rug   Nov-10-11 07:20 PM   #130 
           - Maybe you could show the diagnostic criteria that talk about love and hate as knowledge.  laconicsax   Nov-10-11 07:30 PM   #131 
              - Apparently, hate is more rational...  onager   Nov-10-11 08:08 PM   #133 
              - In this case, it's the absence of that knowledge.  rug   Nov-10-11 08:22 PM   #135 
                 - So, based on your ad-hoc definitions, it's psychopathy.  laconicsax   Nov-10-11 09:06 PM   #141 
                    - No it's not.  rug   Nov-11-11 07:54 AM   #144 
                       - Show me something that supports your thesis and I'll use my eyes. n/t  laconicsax   Nov-11-11 11:12 AM   #145 
                          - I did. And you still haven't answered the question.  rug   Nov-11-11 12:08 PM   #147 
                             - No, you showed me something which made no mention of love or hate as a type of knowledge...  laconicsax   Nov-11-11 04:04 PM   #150 
                                - The lack of empathy as a symptom and criterion for a mental disorder, are not knowledge.  rug   Nov-11-11 06:37 PM   #151 
                                   - Lack of empathy is not the same as not regarding love as knowledge.  laconicsax   Nov-11-11 07:32 PM   #152 
                                      - What do you think pathos means?  rug   Nov-11-11 08:21 PM   #153 
                                         - So, based on your ad hoc definitions, it's psychopathy. n/t  laconicsax   Nov-11-11 09:05 PM   #154 
                                            - Wrong again.  rug   Nov-11-11 09:15 PM   #155 
                                               - You're conflating and changing definitions to fit your argument.  laconicsax   Nov-11-11 09:37 PM   #156 
        - O'rlly?  NMMNG   Nov-10-11 07:39 PM   #132 
           - That is not the only personality disorder.  rug   Nov-10-11 08:23 PM   #136 
              - You're the one who specified "psychopathy"  NMMNG   Nov-10-11 08:30 PM   #137 
                 - Actually, I was talking about proving love and hate through the scientific method.  rug   Nov-10-11 08:35 PM   #138 
                    - Brain scans, biochemical reactions  NMMNG   Nov-10-11 08:51 PM   #139 
                       - Love and hate can be explained through brain scans.  rug   Nov-10-11 08:54 PM   #140 
                          - So can aphasia. Is aphasia knowledge?  laconicsax   Nov-10-11 09:08 PM   #142 
                          - The physical manifestations can be observed, yes  NMMNG   Nov-10-11 09:13 PM   #143 
  - With all the dancing around the barnyard in some of the responses, I still ..  MarkCharles   Nov-11-11 11:28 AM   #146 
     - It's simply a tortured and roundabout way  skepticscott   Nov-11-11 12:53 PM   #148 
        - Familiar patterns we see, like the Creationist meme that keeps saying..  MarkCharles   Nov-11-11 01:13 PM   #149 
 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC