| 5. There is no knowledge but science and cleanhippie is its prophet. |
|
"Here is another fallacious argument skeptics will have heard:
There are ways of knowing other than the scientific one."
That's a bold statement.
|
| -Different ways of knowing? |
cleanhippie |
Nov-05-11 11:41 AM |
#0 |
 -
Different ways of knowing. |
Jim__ |
Nov-05-11 12:58 PM |
#1 |
  -
*yawn* |
trotsky |
Nov-05-11 01:01 PM |
#2 |
| -
C'mon, cleanhippie. We know from discussions right here in R/T that two of them are hearsay.... |
laconicsax |
Nov-05-11 01:27 PM |
#3 |
| -
Imagination and fantasy are powerful personal experiences, but they certainly cannot... |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 01:58 PM |
#4 |
| -
There is no knowledge but science and cleanhippie is its prophet. |
rug |
Nov-05-11 02:04 PM |
#5 |
| -
Well, call it |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 05:10 PM |
#8 |
| -
Except the claim is science is the only means to knowledge. |
rug |
Nov-05-11 06:20 PM |
#9 |
| -
Anyone questioning that such is true probably has no concept of what science is... |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 06:37 PM |
#10 |
| -
You have it backwards. |
rug |
Nov-05-11 06:43 PM |
#11 |
| -
I'm sorry your post makes no sense |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 07:11 PM |
#12 |
| -
" Science and fantasy, do not mix." |
NMMNG |
Nov-05-11 07:23 PM |
#15 |
| -
OOOPS, Pardon me, N2d2!!!! |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 07:50 PM |
#23 |
| -
I stopped reading after "infinite possibilities of the human mind." |
rug |
Nov-05-11 07:39 PM |
#18 |
| -
Well of course you did, you had yourself limited possibilities to only 2! |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 07:52 PM |
#24 |
| -
You left out another possibilty. |
rug |
Nov-05-11 07:56 PM |
#27 |
| -
Another totally insulting post for me to complain about. Meaningless, and |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 08:11 PM |
#34 |
| -
Lay off? |
rug |
Nov-05-11 08:15 PM |
#36 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
Nov-06-11 11:15 AM |
#77 |
| -
When stated as I have done |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 07:37 PM |
#17 |
| -
Your qualifier of yet leaves open "other ways of knowing". |
rug |
Nov-05-11 07:40 PM |
#19 |
| -
And this is a blinding revelation to you? |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 07:47 PM |
#22 |
| -
Not to me. |
rug |
Nov-05-11 07:52 PM |
#25 |
| -
And you have been enlightened beyond that |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 07:57 PM |
#29 |
| -
Sure, |
rug |
Nov-05-11 08:03 PM |
#30 |
| -
Revelation is a way |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 08:13 PM |
#35 |
| -
Hope you're not holding your breath waiting, this is the challenge they never.. |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 07:55 PM |
#26 |
| -
IMO too many people mistake intuition for knowledge. |
Odin2005 |
Nov-05-11 02:10 PM |
#6 |
| -
Intuition is a type of knowledge |
kwassa |
Nov-05-11 07:25 PM |
#16 |
| -
In other words |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 07:43 PM |
#21 |
| -
Here is the definition of knowledge. |
kwassa |
Nov-05-11 08:26 PM |
#38 |
| -
Well, no it doesn't |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 09:10 PM |
#41 |
| -
Yes, it does. Acquistion through experience. |
kwassa |
Nov-05-11 09:17 PM |
#42 |
| -
Nice try, but fail |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 10:11 PM |
#44 |
| -
Who declares fail? You? |
kwassa |
Nov-05-11 10:21 PM |
#46 |
| -
Meaningless babble |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 10:31 PM |
#49 |
| -
not to a rational person. |
kwassa |
Nov-05-11 10:34 PM |
#50 |
| -
Does Jesus like it when you insult people... |
trotsky |
Nov-06-11 08:12 AM |
#61 |
| -
Jesus likes it when I insult you. He told me so. |
kwassa |
Nov-06-11 09:23 PM |
#120 |
| -
Aw, kwassa. I can always count on you to show me what a True Christian is like. |
trotsky |
Nov-07-11 06:11 AM |
#121 |
| -
Hang in there kwassa, you are only telling the truth. Intuition is |
humblebum |
Nov-07-11 08:47 AM |
#122 |
| -
" Intuition is a way of obtaining knowledge, even weak or failed intuition." |
MarkCharles |
Nov-10-11 04:52 PM |
#126 |
| -
And do you have any documentation |
skepticscott |
Nov-06-11 03:29 PM |
#102 |
| -
Intuitions themselves have no information content. |
Odin2005 |
Nov-05-11 08:16 PM |
#37 |
| -
You are totally incorrect |
kwassa |
Nov-05-11 08:39 PM |
#39 |
| -
If you're including |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 10:20 PM |
#45 |
| -
you are grasping at non-existent straws |
kwassa |
Nov-05-11 10:30 PM |
#48 |
| -
And how often is it not? |
skepticscott |
Nov-06-11 05:20 AM |
#56 |
| -
Except when it came to how best to treat his cancer... |
Silent3 |
Nov-06-11 07:24 AM |
#59 |
| -
Very low. No one is claiming that intuition or any method other than |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 07:43 AM |
#60 |
| -
Give examples of these "other ways of knowing" and what knowledge we have gotten. Can You? |
cleanhippie |
Nov-06-11 08:47 AM |
#65 |
| -
I never said anything about "objective". |
Silent3 |
Nov-06-11 09:09 AM |
#66 |
| -
I suspect if you looked at all of Jobs' |
skepticscott |
Nov-06-11 03:34 PM |
#103 |
| -
You're being unfair |
NMMNG |
Nov-05-11 04:48 PM |
#7 |
| -
MY voices keep saying.. "clean me" .. "clean me"!!! I ignore them! |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 07:15 PM |
#13 |
| -
LOL |
NMMNG |
Nov-05-11 07:19 PM |
#14 |
| -
Probably both..........actually, it's the spills and drips that have been there for |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 07:57 PM |
#28 |
| -
You should listen to them. |
rug |
Nov-05-11 07:41 PM |
#20 |
| -
I should listen to voices in my refrigerator? Voices that come from my own.. |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 08:03 PM |
#31 |
| -
Whatever it takes to get you to clean it. |
rug |
Nov-05-11 08:05 PM |
#32 |
| -
I don't need "whatever it takes", nor does my refrigerator..... |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 08:08 PM |
#33 |
| -
As soon as an atheist admits that other ways of knowing do exist, |
humblebum |
Nov-05-11 08:39 PM |
#40 |
| -
Agreed. |
kwassa |
Nov-05-11 09:19 PM |
#43 |
| -
If it is "obvious to many that they do exist |
skepticscott |
Nov-05-11 10:27 PM |
#47 |
| -
Same old line, and same old accusations. And, you are fine example |
humblebum |
Nov-05-11 10:53 PM |
#51 |
| -
Fine, then you'll have no trouble repeating them here |
skepticscott |
Nov-06-11 05:16 AM |
#55 |
| -
Now you are being totally dishonest about anything that I've said. |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 06:23 AM |
#57 |
| -
That is SOME squirm you have going there. |
cleanhippie |
Nov-06-11 12:31 PM |
#85 |
| -
In other words, you can't provide any examples |
skepticscott |
Nov-06-11 03:39 PM |
#106 |
| -
I hope you are not writing this on your IPad. |
kwassa |
Nov-05-11 11:01 PM |
#52 |
| -
Great example. nt |
humblebum |
Nov-05-11 11:27 PM |
#53 |
| -
If you go by the very quote you cite |
skepticscott |
Nov-06-11 05:01 AM |
#54 |
| -
You are just kinda "out there", aren't you? Not really being |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 06:36 AM |
#58 |
| -
OK, I'll ask, (assuming I am as unable to "grasp", as you accuse atheists of being)... |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 08:31 AM |
#63 |
| -
Oh great. Now your infallible method has become circular reasoning. |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 09:11 AM |
#67 |
| -
A pretty good attempt to avoid answering the question, but |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 09:19 AM |
#68 |
| -
Actually it answered the question perfectly. nt |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 09:23 AM |
#69 |
| -
You have it exactly right. Humblebum will NEVER provide a single example. EVER. |
cleanhippie |
Nov-06-11 09:26 AM |
#70 |
| -
Wrong. I just don't provide answers you can understand, like |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 09:34 AM |
#71 |
| -
Just one example is all that being asked for, and you cannot do it. |
cleanhippie |
Nov-06-11 09:42 AM |
#72 |
| -
Cleanhippie, you just don't understand, you're not old enough, smart enough, or |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 09:56 AM |
#75 |
| -
Hippie, this is beginning to go from comical to hilarious. You asked me |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 12:01 PM |
#79 |
| -
You're right. In the example of the historian that you give, he could do archival research. |
Jim__ |
Nov-06-11 12:26 PM |
#82 |
| -
I asked you for any knowledge gained though some "other way of knowing", and you have provided ZIP! |
cleanhippie |
Nov-06-11 12:28 PM |
#83 |
| -
Why is that I expected that answer? From this point on all |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 12:33 PM |
#86 |
| -
Just one, humblebum. Just one. And. You. Can't. Do. It. |
cleanhippie |
Nov-06-11 12:40 PM |
#87 |
| -
Don't look now. But I did it and have done. I can't be to blame if |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 12:52 PM |
#88 |
| -
Just one example. And you can't do it. |
cleanhippie |
Nov-06-11 01:03 PM |
#89 |
| -
You consider knowledge of the existence of Socrates... |
Silent3 |
Nov-06-11 02:28 PM |
#91 |
| -
Facts are what they are. Science or to more precise logical empiricism |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 02:40 PM |
#92 |
| -
Historical documents are a form of empirical evidence |
Silent3 |
Nov-06-11 03:42 PM |
#108 |
| -
You seem to be confusing "CONCEPTS" with the request for "EXAMPLES" |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 02:43 PM |
#93 |
| -
I have given examples of concepts, concepts, examples, and examples of examples. |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 02:53 PM |
#94 |
| -
Not even ONE example?? Just concepts, sorry... I listed my darn microwave oven!... |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 04:14 PM |
#112 |
| -
You should begin to discern another pattern here |
skepticscott |
Nov-06-11 04:24 PM |
#113 |
| -
Ah yes, it's in "heaven" where he puts his great ideas, and we should |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 06:53 PM |
#116 |
| -
Let's see.You have been here since October 31st and yet you claim |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 07:17 PM |
#118 |
| -
Beginning to see a pattern here, (unable to "grasp" as I am), a pattern of |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 09:50 AM |
#73 |
| -
He will keep swinging as long as you keep pitching... |
cleanhippie |
Nov-06-11 09:54 AM |
#74 |
| -
Thanks! How about a game of catch, between two guys who cannot "grasp" |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 09:59 AM |
#76 |
| -
Oh great. Tag team atheism again. nt |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 12:03 PM |
#80 |
| -
Just. One. Example. |
cleanhippie |
Nov-06-11 12:29 PM |
#84 |
| -
Playing catch? American past-time, not exactly professional wrestling |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 04:46 PM |
#114 |
| -
Humblebum is highly trained |
EvolveOrConvolve |
Nov-12-11 01:49 AM |
#157 |
| -
And again, you have no arguments |
skepticscott |
Nov-06-11 03:26 PM |
#101 |
| -
Why, are you using your Lisa? n/t |
trotsky |
Nov-06-11 08:21 AM |
#62 |
| -
Great point! Jobs' "intuition" had some amazing strike-outs in his career of |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 08:36 AM |
#64 |
| -
What knowledge has been gained through these other methods? nt |
ZombieHorde |
Nov-06-11 03:41 PM |
#107 |
| -
No Other-Wayers have trotted out Leo Szilard yet? |
onager |
Nov-06-11 11:42 AM |
#78 |
| -
And your point is? He was an intelligent man who understood |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 12:08 PM |
#81 |
| -
Ideas, imagination, dreams, fantasies, random juxtapositions of thoughts, |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 02:27 PM |
#90 |
| -
Looks like you got a little anti-christian thing goin' on there that |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 02:56 PM |
#95 |
| -
More than one, but no concrete examples, just your own statements |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 03:03 PM |
#96 |
| -
I never said you mentioned epistemology, but that is exactly what other ways of knowing involves. |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 03:13 PM |
#98 |
| -
But, once again, you never mentioned, "epistemology".. |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 03:22 PM |
#100 |
| -
Now that's a good one. |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 08:09 PM |
#119 |
| -
How should a person figure out which epistemologies are viable, and which ones are not viable? |
ZombieHorde |
Nov-06-11 03:36 PM |
#105 |
| -
Well, the word actually means the STUDY of the concepts of Knowledge, not the |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 03:51 PM |
#110 |
| -
Let me get this straight, Pope so-and-so condemned a scientist, and you claim this as |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 03:05 PM |
#97 |
| -
Yeh, Uh huh. Whatever makes you happy. |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 03:20 PM |
#99 |
| -
Nothing you say bothers me. I sometimes laugh out loud when I read what... |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 03:35 PM |
#104 |
| -
Welcome to DU! |
skepticscott |
Nov-06-11 03:46 PM |
#109 |
| -
Thank you for your welcome. I have been admiring many of your ... |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 03:55 PM |
#111 |
| -
First of all, I commend you for being so logical. You must also |
humblebum |
Nov-06-11 06:38 PM |
#115 |
| -
So, what you're saying is that YOUR bridge didn't collapse so therefore |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 07:00 PM |
#117 |
| -
Incredibly bizarre response, even from you. |
onager |
Nov-10-11 08:15 PM |
#134 |
| -
From the title (and this being the religion and theology forum)... |
Meshuga |
Nov-07-11 08:17 PM |
#123 |
| -
Nicomachean Ethics |
tama |
Nov-10-11 04:38 PM |
#124 |
| -
Using the scientific method only, demonstrate how you know you love someone. |
rug |
Nov-10-11 04:51 PM |
#125 |
| -
A first grader asks Einstein to prove the theory of relativity. |
MarkCharles |
Nov-10-11 06:44 PM |
#127 |
| -
Love and hate are not knowledge? That's one of the critera for psychopathy. |
rug |
Nov-10-11 07:11 PM |
#128 |
| -
It's anti-social disorder, not psychopathy. |
laconicsax |
Nov-10-11 07:15 PM |
#129 |
| -
I prefer the older term. Still, if the shoe fits . . . |
rug |
Nov-10-11 07:20 PM |
#130 |
| -
Maybe you could show the diagnostic criteria that talk about love and hate as knowledge. |
laconicsax |
Nov-10-11 07:30 PM |
#131 |
| -
Apparently, hate is more rational... |
onager |
Nov-10-11 08:08 PM |
#133 |
| -
In this case, it's the absence of that knowledge. |
rug |
Nov-10-11 08:22 PM |
#135 |
| -
So, based on your ad-hoc definitions, it's psychopathy. |
laconicsax |
Nov-10-11 09:06 PM |
#141 |
| -
No it's not. |
rug |
Nov-11-11 07:54 AM |
#144 |
| -
Show me something that supports your thesis and I'll use my eyes. n/t |
laconicsax |
Nov-11-11 11:12 AM |
#145 |
| -
I did. And you still haven't answered the question. |
rug |
Nov-11-11 12:08 PM |
#147 |
| -
No, you showed me something which made no mention of love or hate as a type of knowledge... |
laconicsax |
Nov-11-11 04:04 PM |
#150 |
| -
The lack of empathy as a symptom and criterion for a mental disorder, are not knowledge. |
rug |
Nov-11-11 06:37 PM |
#151 |
| -
Lack of empathy is not the same as not regarding love as knowledge. |
laconicsax |
Nov-11-11 07:32 PM |
#152 |
| -
What do you think pathos means? |
rug |
Nov-11-11 08:21 PM |
#153 |
| -
So, based on your ad hoc definitions, it's psychopathy. n/t |
laconicsax |
Nov-11-11 09:05 PM |
#154 |
| -
Wrong again. |
rug |
Nov-11-11 09:15 PM |
#155 |
| -
You're conflating and changing definitions to fit your argument. |
laconicsax |
Nov-11-11 09:37 PM |
#156 |
| -
O'rlly? |
NMMNG |
Nov-10-11 07:39 PM |
#132 |
| -
That is not the only personality disorder. |
rug |
Nov-10-11 08:23 PM |
#136 |
| -
You're the one who specified "psychopathy" |
NMMNG |
Nov-10-11 08:30 PM |
#137 |
| -
Actually, I was talking about proving love and hate through the scientific method. |
rug |
Nov-10-11 08:35 PM |
#138 |
| -
Brain scans, biochemical reactions |
NMMNG |
Nov-10-11 08:51 PM |
#139 |
| -
Love and hate can be explained through brain scans. |
rug |
Nov-10-11 08:54 PM |
#140 |
| -
So can aphasia. Is aphasia knowledge? |
laconicsax |
Nov-10-11 09:08 PM |
#142 |
| -
The physical manifestations can be observed, yes |
NMMNG |
Nov-10-11 09:13 PM |
#143 |
| -
With all the dancing around the barnyard in some of the responses, I still .. |
MarkCharles |
Nov-11-11 11:28 AM |
#146 |
| -
It's simply a tortured and roundabout way |
skepticscott |
Nov-11-11 12:53 PM |
#148 |
| -
Familiar patterns we see, like the Creationist meme that keeps saying.. |
MarkCharles |
Nov-11-11 01:13 PM |
#149 |
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