laconicsax
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Sat Nov-05-11 03:41 AM
Response to Reply #87 |
| 88. You're confusing terms, but that's ok. |
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Briefly, I, and almost every other atheist of my acquaintance, don't believe that there's no god, we simply don't believe that there is. The claim that there is a god has been made and we simply don't believe it to be true while saying nothing of whether it is false. While the counterclaim "there is no god" exists, it only exists in opposition to the positive "there is a god" and isn't held as a belief by (most) atheists. We're not saying, "there's no god," but saying "I don't believe you" to those who say there is. I think this is a source of your confusion. Saying "I don't believe you" requires no belief.
Not believing something is different than believing in the negation of it. For example, were I to ask you if you believe that on May 24, 2127, an alien invasion force from the Alnitak system will begin orbital bombardment of the moon in preparation for an invasion of Earth to commence on May 26th, you would probably say no. If I replied, "Aha! You can't prove that it won't happen," you could rightly point out that you don't need to prove that it won't happen to not believe so. You simply don't believe my proposition about an alien invasion even though you have no knowledge of the event. Would I be correct in asserting that you believe the Alnitakan invasion of 2127 won't happen, or is it merely the case that you don't believe that it will happen.
(A)gnosticism deals with knowledge, (a)theism with belief in a god (or gods). They are answers to different questions--"do you believe" and "do you know for certain" (or think it's possible to know). There are four broad groups based on the answers to these questions:
-gnostic theists, who answer yes to both questions, -agnostic theists, who answer yes to the first and no to the second, -agnostic atheists, who answer no to both questions, and -gnostic theists, who answer no to the first and yes to the second.
Agnosticism isn't a sort of middle ground between theism and atheism, but a 'no' answer to an entirely different question. I'd be willing to bet that you're an a-Quetzacoatlist, an a-Amaterasuist, and an a-Baalist--you don't believe in any of those three gods despite not knowing whether they exist.
(BTW: Do you know why it's ag-nosticism instead of a-gnosticism? I've been wondering that while typing this reply)
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| -Is atheism an inherently bigoted belief system? |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 04:42 PM |
#0 |
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A) It's not a belief system according to any atheist I've ever spoken at length with, and B) |
GreenPartyVoter |
Oct-28-11 04:45 PM |
#1 |
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I've read posts to the effect of a "yes" answer on this board. I'm just curious what people think. |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 04:46 PM |
#3 |
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Well, I know it rubs people the wrong way when others start in with the "sky daddy" thing. I suppose |
GreenPartyVoter |
Oct-28-11 04:55 PM |
#9 |
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You could back that up with a "no" vote. |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 05:00 PM |
#11 |
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D'oh, I forgot to vote. Brb! |
GreenPartyVoter |
Oct-28-11 05:01 PM |
#12 |
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Isn't it possible for a believer to be similarly bigoted against believers? |
Boojatta |
Oct-28-11 07:12 PM |
#34 |
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Of course. We see it all the time when people try to exclude others on the basis of |
GreenPartyVoter |
Oct-28-11 08:04 PM |
#37 |
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I'm talking about bigotry against people who believe the right doctrine, and |
Boojatta |
Oct-28-11 08:10 PM |
#38 |
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Then you don't know many atheists. nt |
bananas |
Oct-29-11 11:29 PM |
#60 |
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What kind of loaded question is that? A-Theism: without belief in a deity. |
qb |
Oct-28-11 04:45 PM |
#2 |
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See #3 |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 04:46 PM |
#4 |
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I think it gets a bit more complex than that. |
Chan790 |
Oct-31-11 07:57 PM |
#82 |
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Just how bored are you today? |
Warpy |
Oct-28-11 04:46 PM |
#5 |
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Not terribly. |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 04:48 PM |
#6 |
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How do you do this poll thingee |
beardown |
Oct-28-11 04:53 PM |
#7 |
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Yes and no. |
cleanhippie |
Oct-28-11 05:19 PM |
#16 |
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Bigotry, predjudice, bias is human nature |
notadmblnd |
Oct-28-11 04:54 PM |
#8 |
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What she said! |
GreenPartyVoter |
Oct-28-11 04:55 PM |
#10 |
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g*d d*mn...i coulda swore i saw boojata around here somewhere! |
ret5hd |
Oct-28-11 05:04 PM |
#13 |
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The options were "yes" and "no," not "up" and "kittens." n/t |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 05:07 PM |
#14 |
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well, yeah, there is that. But the question itself...classic boojata. |
ret5hd |
Oct-28-11 05:10 PM |
#15 |
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! |
cleanhippie |
Oct-28-11 05:20 PM |
#17 |
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No, atheism is not a belief system, it is non-belief. |
cleanhippie |
Oct-28-11 05:20 PM |
#18 |
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What a stupid question. |
ChadwickHenryWard |
Oct-28-11 05:43 PM |
#19 |
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You might be... |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 05:46 PM |
#21 |
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Atheism is a belief. |
Eddie Haskell |
Oct-28-11 05:45 PM |
#20 |
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Sorry, wrong. |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 05:48 PM |
#22 |
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Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
Oct-29-11 11:32 PM |
#61 |
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Wait.. didnt you just prove him right? |
quakerboy |
Nov-05-11 01:35 AM |
#85 |
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No. |
laconicsax |
Nov-05-11 02:42 AM |
#86 |
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Walk me through this |
quakerboy |
Nov-05-11 02:56 AM |
#87 |
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You're confusing terms, but that's ok. |
laconicsax |
Nov-05-11 03:41 AM |
#88 |
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Interesting |
quakerboy |
Nov-05-11 04:36 AM |
#89 |
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Yes, it should be gnostic atheists. That was a typo. |
laconicsax |
Nov-05-11 01:17 PM |
#90 |
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You'll probably keep repeating that... |
Silent3 |
Oct-28-11 06:41 PM |
#26 |
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Eddie, pay attention my friend... |
cleanhippie |
Oct-28-11 06:45 PM |
#28 |
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No you listen! |
Eddie Haskell |
Oct-29-11 06:55 AM |
#47 |
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Hahahaha! Well, Eddie, since you are not doing your own reasning to begin with... |
cleanhippie |
Oct-29-11 09:09 AM |
#49 |
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It is definitely a belief system, whether or not that belief is in a diety. |
humblebum |
Oct-30-11 12:20 PM |
#66 |
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From my point of view... |
rexcat |
Oct-31-11 07:37 PM |
#80 |
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I am an atheist |
NMMNG |
Oct-28-11 08:00 PM |
#36 |
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I vote double no. |
darkstar3 |
Oct-28-11 06:26 PM |
#23 |
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It looks like no one who answered "yes - please explain" has come forward to actually explain. |
iris27 |
Oct-28-11 06:29 PM |
#24 |
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I think they're hiding behind the anonymity of poll votes. n/t |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 06:33 PM |
#25 |
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Just like few were in a hurry to explain their "spiritual sense"... |
Silent3 |
Oct-28-11 06:43 PM |
#27 |
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Those who answered "yes" WON'T explain it. |
cleanhippie |
Oct-28-11 06:46 PM |
#29 |
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Oh, I'm sure they have no difficulty explaining anything. |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 07:00 PM |
#30 |
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Blah blah ORGANIZED ATHEISM |
NMMNG |
Oct-28-11 07:09 PM |
#33 |
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Spot on! You are a great understudy! |
cleanhippie |
Oct-28-11 07:14 PM |
#35 |
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You forgot the mysterious "other ways of knowing" |
Rob H. |
Oct-31-11 11:02 PM |
#83 |
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Discussions on this forum have revealed two of the other ways of knowing: |
laconicsax |
Oct-31-11 11:39 PM |
#84 |
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How could it be? |
NMMNG |
Oct-28-11 07:02 PM |
#31 |
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Maybe one of the 6 who voted "yes" could explain their rationale. n/t |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 07:06 PM |
#32 |
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Some think their god is SOOO special that we had to start a new religion to not believe in it. |
beam me up scottie |
Oct-28-11 08:51 PM |
#39 |
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This poll is bigoted nt |
alp227 |
Oct-28-11 11:49 PM |
#40 |
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In what way? |
laconicsax |
Oct-28-11 11:52 PM |
#41 |
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it makes atheism seem like a bad thing |
alp227 |
Oct-28-11 11:54 PM |
#42 |
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You contradicted yourself. |
laconicsax |
Oct-29-11 12:08 AM |
#43 |
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Lemme correct myself, calling atheism bigoted is an excessive broad brush |
alp227 |
Oct-29-11 12:17 AM |
#44 |
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Yes, it is an excessive broad brush. |
laconicsax |
Oct-29-11 12:39 AM |
#45 |
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Babies are atheists, but they are not bigots, so no. nt |
ZombieHorde |
Oct-29-11 12:48 AM |
#46 |
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No |
LeftishBrit |
Oct-29-11 09:05 AM |
#48 |
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No, I think it's just the opposite... |
Rhiannon12866 |
Oct-29-11 03:40 PM |
#50 |
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As do I. This poll isn't about what I think. |
laconicsax |
Oct-29-11 05:43 PM |
#51 |
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Well, that makes sense, doesn't it? |
Rhiannon12866 |
Oct-29-11 05:59 PM |
#52 |
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That's because your seven are shit stirrers and trolls. Thats my opinion |
riderinthestorm |
Oct-29-11 11:21 PM |
#59 |
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Oh they're real, and I'd lay dollars to pesos that they post in this forum regularly. |
darkstar3 |
Oct-30-11 01:26 AM |
#62 |
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They can say no and then change the question, though. |
Iggo |
Oct-30-11 12:42 PM |
#67 |
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ONLY IF it is "bigoted" to favor facts over fantasy, or to follow the |
MarkCharles |
Nov-05-11 03:14 PM |
#91 |
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Atheism is Theism dependent |
Edward Palamar |
Oct-29-11 08:35 PM |
#53 |
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Completely untrue |
NMMNG |
Oct-29-11 08:50 PM |
#54 |
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Sure |
Edward Palamar |
Oct-29-11 09:13 PM |
#55 |
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Reply with links to a few archived threads where you would prefer to post ... |
Boojatta |
Oct-30-11 02:34 PM |
#70 |
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hey! the stupidest, most uniformed response on this thread! congrats! |
piratefish08 |
Oct-31-11 06:27 AM |
#77 |
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Not a belief system. Can't be bigotry if it's true. |
Deep13 |
Oct-29-11 09:38 PM |
#56 |
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"Saying that no evidence of god has ever been produced is likewise a fact." |
Boojatta |
Oct-29-11 10:14 PM |
#57 |
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response |
Deep13 |
Oct-29-11 10:27 PM |
#58 |
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a bag of cocaine and the New Testament |
Boojatta |
Oct-30-11 03:25 PM |
#71 |
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With each exhibit, one proves that said exhibit exists. |
Deep13 |
Oct-30-11 04:02 PM |
#72 |
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"One must decide based on the believability of the cop who found it or the authors who wrote it." |
Boojatta |
Oct-30-11 04:11 PM |
#73 |
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Then how do we verify anything that happened before living memory? |
Deep13 |
Oct-30-11 04:48 PM |
#74 |
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From Wikipedia. |
LARED |
Oct-30-11 08:49 AM |
#63 |
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It's not a belief system. |
Iggo |
Oct-30-11 10:43 AM |
#64 |
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To say that atheism is an inherently bigoted belief system would be false. |
humblebum |
Oct-30-11 11:11 AM |
#65 |
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Not a belief system, as previously noted. nt |
amyrose2712 |
Oct-30-11 01:47 PM |
#68 |
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The only ones who believe that are atheists. Obvious to everyone else. nt |
humblebum |
Oct-31-11 02:28 AM |
#75 |
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No, from my understanding... |
Meshuga |
Oct-30-11 02:08 PM |
#69 |
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atheism is the polar opposite of a belief system, but you knew that..... |
piratefish08 |
Oct-31-11 06:26 AM |
#76 |
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laconicsax is an outspoken atheist n/t |
NMMNG |
Oct-31-11 04:24 PM |
#78 |
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Tell that to the 9 who answered "yes" |
laconicsax |
Oct-31-11 05:38 PM |
#79 |
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Nothing bigoted about atheism... |
rexcat |
Oct-31-11 07:42 PM |
#81 |
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At the top of this thread is an advert, asking if I want a Divinity degree!! ... |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 06:37 AM |
#92 |
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Google AdSense works with keywords |
NMMNG |
Nov-06-11 06:55 AM |
#93 |
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And, of course, I was thinking it was God at work, speaking to me |
MarkCharles |
Nov-06-11 07:29 AM |
#94 |