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Reply #67: While we may honestly disagree [View All]

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Thats my opinion Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-23-11 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #66
67. While we may honestly disagree
I respect the way you handle these disagreements. You have never really attacked my rationality while your critique has often been fierce. I can handle that. But there are a half dozen old hands here with a very different agenda. They do not want religion discussed at all, except to condemn it. Their vocation is to bash religion. When a poster reported that a religion man showed up to protest an execution, the response was that this sort of thing had no place on r/t and the poster should go elsewhere,.

This is why r/t is held in such low regard by most DUers who won't even bother to post or respond here. I decided to do what I could to alter that approach, and I have the scars to prove it.

To your answer. I listen to it realizing that it is a rational response. Of course I come at things very differently as my answers to your questions suggest.

The main critique is that I employ the NTS fallacy. The implication is that I speak for all religious thought and that those who do not agree with my thesis are therefor not real Christians--only those who believe as I do. Carried to this conclusion would mean that here can be no internal debate in anything where anybody held that their view was authentic, assuming others were not. Thus the end of any dialogic process of firmly held propositions. I am in no position to judge whether someone else is or is not not a Christian, or a historian, or a scientist or an politician. I hold what I do about the heart of Christianity as compassion for all. This is common proposition of liberal scholars and religious historians throughout the world. I am a member of the Jesus Seminar, and that is what Marcus Borg proposed in his book, "The Heart of Christianity." You NTS comment strikes me as a debater's rhetorical ploy that is intended to sidetrack what I really have to say.

I just flatly disagree that my 3 is epistemological mush. It is a deeply thought out perspective on Biblical literature that has been solid for a long long time.
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  -Are the details of your religion important to you? Silent3  Sep-19-11 03:00 PM   #0 
  - There will never be a honest discussion in this forum about Religion. NT  William769   Sep-19-11 03:05 PM   #1 
  - +1  1620rock   Sep-19-11 03:10 PM   #2 
  - I don't care about the details of my religion because they came  roguevalley   Sep-20-11 02:33 PM   #43 
  - +100  demosincebirth   Sep-19-11 03:27 PM   #6 
  - Why not honest?  FiveGoodMen   Sep-19-11 03:38 PM   #7 
  - All one has to do is read through the threads in this forum to know the answer.  William769   Sep-19-11 03:57 PM   #11 
     - There's nothing dishonest about atheism  FiveGoodMen   Sep-19-11 04:44 PM   #19 
     - There is nothing dishonest about atheism.  William769   Sep-19-11 06:05 PM   #20 
        - And there are some atheists who spend their time here responding to broad-brushes like that one.  darkstar3   Sep-19-11 07:51 PM   #24 
        - How does "only knocking religion" equate to not having an honest discussion?  Silent3   Sep-19-11 08:07 PM   #25 
           - each side has people who hate and smear it all over the topic  roguevalley   Sep-20-11 02:35 PM   #44 
              - That still sounds like a comment addressing tone...  Silent3   Sep-21-11 12:19 AM   #48 
     - But there is a noticeable change here  Thats my opinion   Sep-22-11 02:12 PM   #60 
  - At least not from many of the religious posters.  cleanhippie   Sep-19-11 04:06 PM   #12 
  - Thanks for proving my point.  William769   Sep-19-11 04:08 PM   #13 
     - Oh, I think you are doing just fine on your own.  cleanhippie   Sep-19-11 04:17 PM   #17 
  - I'm really curious to know why you think the discussions are not honest  EvolveOrConvolve   Sep-19-11 06:55 PM   #22 
  - I can't answer any of your questions, but I think it works like this:  PassingFair   Sep-19-11 03:11 PM   #3 
  - Excellent response  Dogtown   Sep-19-11 03:55 PM   #10 
  - When the shoe fits!  PassingFair   Sep-19-11 04:24 PM   #18 
  - It does  NMMNG   Sep-19-11 07:11 PM   #23 
  - I don't know anyone who does that--  Thats my opinion   Sep-19-11 08:41 PM   #27 
     - You think a third of the country is unlikely to be known to any of us  dmallind   Sep-20-11 04:24 AM   #36 
     - Of course I do  NMMNG   Sep-20-11 09:47 AM   #40 
     - TMO, please don't assume your personal experience must be universally shared.  iris27   Sep-22-11 12:24 AM   #57 
  - Yup. As long as your religion doesn't interfere with my life, or the lives of others.  HERVEPA   Sep-20-11 01:28 PM   #42 
  - Rec'd to zero. n/t  laconicsax   Sep-19-11 03:14 PM   #4 
  - Yes, details like a lack of dogma.  dtexdem   Sep-19-11 03:20 PM   #5 
  - Do those commitments actually fit well...  Silent3   Sep-19-11 03:50 PM   #9 
  - What most people would understand as a "religion"?  tama   Sep-20-11 05:49 AM   #37 
     - "anthropological comparative study of religions" are a bit removed...  Silent3   Sep-21-11 12:41 AM   #49 
     - thanks for that  Thats my opinion   Sep-22-11 02:27 PM   #61 
        - Who are these antagonists who "hate all religion"?  laconicsax   Sep-22-11 03:12 PM   #63 
           - There is allways the possibility  tama   Sep-25-11 12:48 PM   #78 
  - And that is why I belong to a UU Fellowship.  cleanhippie   Sep-19-11 04:08 PM   #14 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-22-11 02:28 PM   #62 
  - I agree with you. I feel at home with the UUs.  Manifestor_of_Light   Sep-21-11 04:48 PM   #53 
  - Here's how it works in America: The details are very important  Bluenorthwest   Sep-19-11 03:46 PM   #8 
  - Wow, man. That was beautiful!  cleanhippie   Sep-19-11 04:10 PM   #15 
  - I recently read a message-board comment by a British Conservative ...  LeftishBrit   Sep-20-11 02:50 AM   #35 
  - I'm a Christian and couldn't agree more.  jeepnstein   Sep-20-11 07:49 AM   #39 
  - When I was a practicing Christian, the details were the ONLY part that mattered...  Scuba   Sep-19-11 04:17 PM   #16 
  - You can't have an honest discussion about religion here  NMMNG   Sep-19-11 06:39 PM   #21 
  - I am a Reform Jew so...  Meshuga   Sep-19-11 08:17 PM   #26 
  - Doesn't that almost become more of a cultural tradition then...  Silent3   Sep-19-11 09:23 PM   #28 
     - Yes,  Meshuga   Sep-20-11 05:56 AM   #38 
  - The answers!  Pterodactyl   Sep-19-11 09:39 PM   #29 
  - Thank you for your answers.  Silent3   Sep-19-11 10:13 PM   #30 
     - My respect for the sincerity of others is based on my respect for them as human beings.  Pterodactyl   Sep-19-11 10:30 PM   #31 
        - How do you deal with people who sincerely believe bad things?  Silent3   Sep-19-11 11:14 PM   #32 
        - Yes, there are...  tortoise1956   Sep-19-11 11:44 PM   #33 
        - believing that someone is "going to hell" is identical to hating them.  yodermon   Sep-20-11 04:50 PM   #45 
           - Not necessarily. Someone on the highway to hell is in need of rescue!  Pterodactyl   Sep-20-11 11:19 PM   #47 
        - I didn't answer your question  tortoise1956   Sep-19-11 11:48 PM   #34 
        - We send the military to Afghanistan to work on those folks!  Pterodactyl   Sep-20-11 09:45 PM   #46 
        - "motivated to do good and serve God"  trotsky   Sep-21-11 07:07 AM   #50 
           - Fred Phelps is full of it. I'm not trying to excuse bad behavior here.  Pterodactyl   Sep-21-11 09:42 PM   #54 
              - What if an atheist does good?  laconicsax   Sep-21-11 10:48 PM   #56 
              - God is pleased when they do good.  Pterodactyl   Sep-22-11 10:11 PM   #64 
              - But you're missing the point.  trotsky   Sep-22-11 06:09 AM   #59 
                 - Just because Phelps THINKS he is doing good, does not make it so.  Pterodactyl   Sep-22-11 10:15 PM   #65 
                    - You bet your booties I know.  Thats my opinion   Sep-24-11 07:50 PM   #73 
                       - And if Fred Phelps  skepticscott   Sep-25-11 06:56 AM   #75 
                          - ...  cleanhippie   Sep-25-11 05:47 PM   #85 
                             - If so, I will probably be told  skepticscott   Sep-25-11 06:42 PM   #88 
  - When I was trying to be a Christian...  Deep13   Sep-20-11 09:54 AM   #41 
  - It is taking a long time, but Christianity is spreading in China.  Pterodactyl   Sep-21-11 09:46 PM   #55 
     - So how many Chinese people have gone to hell in the meantime.  Deep13   Sep-26-11 08:06 PM   #103 
  - I take something like the approach Meshuga describes  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-21-11 01:28 PM   #51 
  - I appreciate your response. I hope you can understand...  Silent3   Sep-21-11 02:53 PM   #52 
  - If you are really interested in a rational discussion of these questions  Thats my opinion   Sep-22-11 12:47 AM   #58 
  - How is "looking for a crack in the armor", as you put it...  Silent3   Sep-22-11 11:31 PM   #66 
     - While we may honestly disagree  Thats my opinion   Sep-23-11 10:43 AM   #67 
     - You might be trying to steer clear of judging other Christians...  Silent3   Sep-24-11 02:17 PM   #68 
        - In any culture  Thats my opinion   Sep-24-11 03:52 PM   #69 
        - Ask most Christian Americans about the historicity of Jesus...  Silent3   Sep-24-11 04:43 PM   #70 
        - Good discussion.  Thats my opinion   Sep-24-11 07:46 PM   #72 
           - I can't, and have no desire to, take away anyone's "right to find...  Silent3   Sep-24-11 11:42 PM   #74 
           - Deleted message  Name removed   Sep-25-11 07:01 AM   #76 
           - "Epistemological abyss"  tama   Sep-25-11 01:44 PM   #81 
           - I find it incredibly interesting...  trotsky   Sep-25-11 09:46 AM   #77 
        - And which of those things  skepticscott   Sep-24-11 06:00 PM   #71 
           - If  tama   Sep-25-11 01:56 PM   #82 
              - Not remotely an answer to what I asked  skepticscott   Sep-25-11 04:47 PM   #83 
                 - OK  tama   Sep-25-11 05:35 PM   #84 
                    - CAN religion provide "spiritual" experiences?  skepticscott   Sep-25-11 06:35 PM   #87 
                       - OK  tama   Sep-25-11 08:21 PM   #93 
                          - Another non-answer  skepticscott   Sep-25-11 08:51 PM   #94 
                             - Do you remember the scene in Mel Brooks' History of the World part I where...  cleanhippie   Sep-26-11 01:44 PM   #99 
                                - I'm just waiting  skepticscott   Sep-26-11 07:59 PM   #102 
        - Church hierarchies  tama   Sep-25-11 01:32 PM   #80 
     - Is debate  tama   Sep-25-11 01:07 PM   #79 
  - The rules of behavior and the reasons for them are very important to me  Yo_Mama   Sep-25-11 06:28 PM   #86 
     - solid post  Thats my opinion   Sep-25-11 07:03 PM   #89 
     - Got a mouse in your pocket?  darkstar3   Sep-25-11 07:25 PM   #90 
     - What about internet-generated examples  skepticscott   Sep-25-11 07:28 PM   #92 
     - The reason you should care  skepticscott   Sep-25-11 07:26 PM   #91 
     - I thought it was clear  Yo_Mama   Sep-26-11 06:47 AM   #95 
        - As an aside...  trotsky   Sep-26-11 07:02 AM   #96 
        - Creationism is not "a competing theory"  Silent3   Sep-26-11 09:55 AM   #98 
        - So you've answered your own question about  skepticscott   Sep-26-11 07:58 PM   #101 
     - Many of the rules of behavior for many religions...  Silent3   Sep-26-11 09:43 AM   #97 
        - Your point betrays a lack of knowledge of at least my religion  Yo_Mama   Sep-26-11 01:55 PM   #100 

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