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Reply #83: Breivik's own answer to the question: [View All]

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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-11 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
83. Breivik's own answer to the question:
Edited on Sat Jul-30-11 09:55 AM by okasha
At the Washington Posts On Faith blog, Mathew N. Schmalz, Professor of Religious Studies at College of the Holy Cross, argues that Breivik sees himself as a cultural rather than religious Christian.

Breivik calls himself a cultural Christian. Religious Christians, he observes, have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, which he himself does not have. For Breivik, Christendom is a vehicle for preserving European self-identity and is not necessarily opposed to elements of paganism such as Breiviks own Odnistic/Norse heritage.

The Christian history that Breivik seeks to reenact is not the passion of Jesus Christ, but the narrative of the Crusades. Although he wishes that Benedict XVI would call Christendom to crusade, Breivik argues that the Roman Pontiff has been too accommodating to Islam and has thus betrayed the Church and Europe as a whole. The new Crusade will thus have to be initiated outside the authority of decadent institutional churches.
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  -OK - if Anders Breivik WAS NOT a "Real Christian," then what was he? Taverner  Jul-29-11 01:25 PM   #0 
  - And keep in mind, if the answer is 'fake Christian' you have do define it then...  Taverner   Jul-29-11 01:25 PM   #1 
  - I don't want to give away my vote  Kalidurga   Jul-29-11 01:28 PM   #2 
  - He followed Republican Jeezus....hallelujah!  rfranklin   Jul-29-11 01:29 PM   #3 
  - a "self-identified" Christian, of course...  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 01:30 PM   #4 
  - What makes you a Martian is being from Mars.  trotsky   Jul-29-11 01:33 PM   #5 
  - Well said. nt  rrneck   Jul-29-11 01:38 PM   #6 
  - No.. that makes you a "self-identified Christian"  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 02:07 PM   #9 
  - Can you read minds?  trotsky   Jul-29-11 02:30 PM   #13 
     - I identify him as a self-identified Christian which respectfully  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 02:41 PM   #15 
        - I do not appreciate your unfounded accusations.  trotsky   Jul-29-11 03:02 PM   #19 
           - I understand..  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 03:07 PM   #20 
              - I feel no need to justify that which I am not guilty of.  trotsky   Jul-29-11 03:09 PM   #21 
                 - I won't engage...  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 03:16 PM   #22 
                    - These are interesting new definitions for common words.  trotsky   Jul-29-11 03:27 PM   #23 
                    - Is in intolerance and disdain when you claim such evil  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 03:48 PM   #25 
                       - "those acts are not consistent with the beliefs and teachings of that religion or philosophy"  trotsky   Jul-29-11 04:06 PM   #26 
                          - The basic tenets and beliefs are not a mystery despite your  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 04:46 PM   #31 
                             - I am disappointed that ultimately you chose to renew your attack on me  trotsky   Jul-29-11 05:16 PM   #36 
                                - I did not say that Gandhi was a Christian. I said he was influenced  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 05:26 PM   #38 
                                   - ...  trotsky   Jul-30-11 09:31 AM   #80 
                    - Yet you show disdain and intolerance  Goblinmonger   Jul-29-11 04:40 PM   #30 
                       - I show disdain for the intolerance that would seek to paint all  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 04:59 PM   #32 
                          - So you are admittinghat  Goblinmonger   Jul-29-11 05:10 PM   #33 
                             - I said nothing of the kind...  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 05:17 PM   #37 
                                - Welcome to the bizarre world of " I don't care what you say  Leontius   Jul-29-11 05:59 PM   #41 
                                - Yup...  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 06:18 PM   #46 
                                - Get over yourself.  Goblinmonger   Jul-30-11 10:06 PM   #101 
                                - But that's exactly what you imply.  trotsky   Jul-30-11 09:35 AM   #81 
                                - Of course you did.  Goblinmonger   Jul-30-11 10:05 PM   #100 
  - and if you self-identify as bald, you are bald?  provis99   Jul-30-11 10:11 PM   #103 
     - Bald has a clear definition.  darkstar3   Jul-30-11 10:15 PM   #104 
        - I disagree that bald is clear.  provis99   Jul-30-11 10:19 PM   #105 
           - Balding vs. bald. I am not responsible, and neither are you, for the misuse of language.  darkstar3   Jul-30-11 10:31 PM   #107 
  - This is the same argument used by those who  dgibby   Jul-29-11 02:20 PM   #11 
     - I don't follow...  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 02:23 PM   #12 
        - Obama self-identifies as a Christian,  dgibby   Jul-29-11 02:36 PM   #14 
           - My argument is that someone who self-identifies...  hlthe2b   Jul-29-11 02:47 PM   #17 
              - What actions by the terrorist are the antithesis of Christian tenets?  Humanist_Activist   Jul-31-11 10:19 AM   #116 
  - I voted fake christian...  tortoise1956   Jul-29-11 01:51 PM   #7 
  - I can only think of one who killed for Atheism  Taverner   Jul-29-11 01:59 PM   #8 
     - Interesting.  Deep13   Jul-29-11 02:53 PM   #18 
        - LOL he gives all of us non-believers a bad name  Taverner   Jul-29-11 04:35 PM   #28 
  - Christianist. nt  CJCRANE   Jul-29-11 02:13 PM   #10 
  - He professed a belief in Jesus Christ, ergo, he was a Christian.  Deep13   Jul-29-11 02:46 PM   #16 
  - Yup nt  Taverner   Jul-29-11 04:36 PM   #29 
  - The question remains, did he agree?  Leontius   Jul-29-11 06:02 PM   #42 
     - Well, I did not actually read his book.  Deep13   Jul-29-11 06:05 PM   #44 
        - Me either so both our " best guess" can only be " probably some  Leontius   Jul-29-11 07:16 PM   #54 
           - Yeah, it's partly guesswork, or mostly guesswork if we consider how reliable media reports are. nt  Deep13   Jul-30-11 09:45 PM   #98 
              - It's also a problem with the definitions of 'Christian'  Leontius   Jul-30-11 10:24 PM   #106 
                 - That makes claims that so-and-so is not a real one susceptible...  Deep13   Jul-31-11 08:00 AM   #114 
  - It depends...did he put sugar on his porridge?  laconicsax   Jul-29-11 03:44 PM   #24 
  - If he actually was a Christian he wasn't familiar with the main lessons of ...  spin   Jul-29-11 04:21 PM   #27 
  - I think the proper technical description of him is "whackadoodle"  struggle4progress   Jul-29-11 05:12 PM   #34 
  - Why is he not a 'real Christian' what bedrock tenets of Christianity  Leontius   Jul-29-11 05:13 PM   #35 
  - It seems that some people think that pointing that out is an attack on all Christians.  laconicsax   Jul-29-11 05:46 PM   #39 
     - Well given the infantile refrain from some that ALL Christians are  Leontius   Jul-29-11 08:11 PM   #75 
        - Link?  darkstar3   Jul-29-11 10:48 PM   #79 
  - I doubt he believes in any kind of god other than white superiority.  rug   Jul-29-11 05:57 PM   #40 
  - Why is that?  laconicsax   Jul-29-11 06:04 PM   #43 
     - Pretty much.  rug   Jul-29-11 06:09 PM   #45 
        - So most Europeans of the past 250 or more years were a type of atheist?  Humanist_Activist   Jul-29-11 06:53 PM   #47 
        - Closer to that than Christianity.  rug   Jul-29-11 07:10 PM   #51 
           - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jul-29-11 07:18 PM   #55 
           - You are making a distinction where none exists, all religion is political...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-29-11 07:25 PM   #58 
              - You are making an assertion broader than the evidence.  rug   Jul-29-11 07:31 PM   #60 
                 - Doesn't that statement pretty much sum up all religion?  cleanhippie   Jul-29-11 07:33 PM   #62 
                 - No. Feel free to pm her about your shared belief.  rug   Jul-29-11 07:37 PM   #63 
                    - Sure it does. Thats why one needs faith - there is no supporting evidence.  cleanhippie   Jul-29-11 07:41 PM   #64 
                       - "all religion is political".  rug   Jul-29-11 07:43 PM   #66 
                          - Maybe I missed where I made that claim. Can you point it out?  cleanhippie   Jul-29-11 07:44 PM   #67 
                             - "Doesn't that statement pretty much sum up all religion?"  rug   Jul-29-11 07:47 PM   #69 
                             - Ahhh, sorry. I was referring to YOUR statement.  cleanhippie   Jul-29-11 09:18 PM   #78 
                             - I did, but then again, I treat religion no differently than any other social system of humanity...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-29-11 07:47 PM   #70 
                 - Really? All human social constructs are political in various different ways...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-29-11 07:44 PM   #68 
                    - you define religion as a human social contruct. Religion does not.  rug   Jul-29-11 07:49 PM   #71 
                       - ...taking place at the same time as, and often in support of, political ones.  darkstar3   Jul-29-11 07:53 PM   #72 
                       - Really? Name one. n/t  Humanist_Activist   Jul-29-11 07:59 PM   #74 
                          - I'll name fourteen.  rug   Jul-30-11 09:52 AM   #84 
                             - Except for the last one, none of those are religious in nature...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-30-11 04:36 PM   #88 
                             - Given the seven corporal and spiritual acts of mercy have been examined for centuries, I think  rug   Jul-31-11 06:44 AM   #108 
                                - What puzzlement? n/t  Humanist_Activist   Jul-31-11 07:20 AM   #112 
                                - They must not have been examined very deeply, while some of them are good(and obvious)...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-31-11 07:50 AM   #113 
                             - Those are all religious constructs?  cleanhippie   Jul-30-11 04:40 PM   #89 
                                - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-30-11 05:02 PM   #92 
                                - Well, I hope that rug would have the integrity to answer that.  cleanhippie   Jul-30-11 08:40 PM   #95 
                                - Nice, you're calling me a bigot. That didn't take long.  rug   Jul-31-11 06:46 AM   #110 
                                - The last seven are,  rug   Jul-31-11 06:44 AM   #109 
                                   - No they are not. They are found in ideologies, both religious and non, worldwide.  darkstar3   Jul-31-11 03:46 PM   #119 
        - That'll be news to the KKK, which considers itself a Christian organization.  darkstar3   Jul-29-11 06:54 PM   #48 
        - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jul-29-11 07:12 PM   #52 
        - The OT is pretty much littered with race or ethnic-based genocide.  Deep13   Jul-29-11 07:02 PM   #49 
        - And this guy seems enamored with Norse mythology. I wouldn't call him a pagan.  rug   Jul-29-11 07:13 PM   #53 
           - If he's so enamoured, maybe he is a pagan.  Deep13   Jul-29-11 07:19 PM   #56 
              - I think a pagan would disagree with you.  rug   Jul-29-11 07:22 PM   #57 
                 - Actually most wouldn't, Asatru(Norse God believers) openly acknowledge...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-29-11 07:30 PM   #59 
                 - And they would be correct, notwithstanding the clumsy invocation of NTS.  rug   Jul-29-11 07:33 PM   #61 
                    - But that's the point, they wouldn't be using the fallacy in the first place...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-29-11 07:42 PM   #65 
                       - Much as I hate to leave this, I'm off to see Cowboys and Aliens with my kids.  rug   Jul-29-11 07:56 PM   #73 
                       - Will you post a review? I want to see that.  cleanhippie   Jul-30-11 04:41 PM   #90 
                          - A great cowboy movie, not so great aliens movie.  rug   Jul-31-11 06:51 AM   #111 
                             - I guess I will see it.  cleanhippie   Jul-31-11 11:19 AM   #117 
                       - "automatic moral superiority due solely to their religion like most Christians do"  trotsky   Jul-30-11 09:47 AM   #82 
                 - LOL, well yeah.  Deep13   Jul-30-11 09:43 PM   #97 
        - No True Scotsman logical fallacy nt  _ed_   Aug-08-11 12:01 PM   #120 
  - Your poll accepts the premise. I don't.  darkstar3   Jul-29-11 07:07 PM   #50 
  - Any christian can be hateful or kind.  Manifestor_of_Light   Jul-29-11 08:18 PM   #76 
     - Can you tell where you bought that comic book  Leontius   Jul-29-11 08:58 PM   #77 
        - Isn't this in your bible?  Manifestor_of_Light   Jul-30-11 02:57 PM   #85 
           - Very nice. Now let's see what our friend here has to say in it's defense.  cleanhippie   Jul-30-11 04:45 PM   #91 
           - Mt 7:6  Leontius   Jul-30-11 05:51 PM   #93 
              - Wait, what? Did you just ignore ALL of those bible quotes and instead reply with a bible quote?  cleanhippie   Jul-30-11 08:44 PM   #96 
              - Objection, irrelevant and immaterial.  Manifestor_of_Light   Jul-30-11 09:56 PM   #99 
              - oh, game, set, and match. Take that, atheists!  provis99   Jul-30-11 10:08 PM   #102 
              - Hilarious  _ed_   Aug-08-11 12:05 PM   #121 
  - Breivik's own answer to the question:  okasha   Jul-30-11 09:50 AM   #83 
  - And I'm positive that Mathew N. Schmalz, Professor of Religious Studies  trotsky   Jul-30-11 03:34 PM   #86 
     - Irrelevant  okasha   Jul-30-11 06:01 PM   #94 
        - Relevant.  trotsky   Jul-31-11 09:44 AM   #115 
  - He's written 1500+ pages of dreck, explaining his anti-Islamic views, describing the paramilitary  struggle4progress   Jul-30-11 03:45 PM   #87 
  - So, IOW, are you saying that he is NOT a real christian?  cleanhippie   Aug-12-11 06:53 PM   #126 
  - He wasn't a True Scotsman! n/t  backscatter712   Jul-31-11 12:50 PM   #118 
  - I could see the No True Scotsman a mile away  sakabatou   Aug-08-11 12:20 PM   #122 
  - I haven't voted ...  Nihil   Aug-12-11 11:50 AM   #123 
  - He wasn't a true Norwegian  Meshuga   Aug-12-11 12:51 PM   #124 
  - He said he wasn't a Nazi. But he sure spent a lot of time on the Swesish Nazis' website  struggle4progress   Aug-12-11 03:32 PM   #125 
     - But he DOES say he is a christian. Do you agree with him?  cleanhippie   Aug-12-11 06:54 PM   #127 

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