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Thats my opinion Donating Member (804 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-11 11:06 AM
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38. What about a positive new theism?
Modern and post-modern religionists believe profoundly in evolution, not only in nature but also in thought. Any religion or irreligion that is stuck in history is already out of date. Many of us have also little use for the kind of religion these new atheists reject. Religious thought is not static. This means that the best of irreligion (which you define so well) and contemporary religious thought need to dialogue, not to cast rocks at each other.
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  -Atheism versus New Atheism hyphenate  Jul-21-11 12:22 AM   #0 
  - why should I have to respect someone's delusions?  Doctor Hurt   Jul-21-11 12:25 AM   #1 
  - +100  Taverner   Jul-21-11 12:28 AM   #2 
  - For the same reason they need to respect your delusions  Angry Dragon   Jul-21-11 12:55 AM   #4 
  - I don't want my delusions respected.  trotsky   Jul-21-11 07:03 AM   #12 
  - You can respect them at the same time they are challenged  Angry Dragon   Jul-21-11 01:52 PM   #61 
     - Again, I do not demand respect for my delusions,  trotsky   Jul-21-11 02:37 PM   #65 
  - I don't care if they respect me.  Doctor Hurt   Jul-21-11 09:32 AM   #30 
  - So someone will respect your delusions enough to leave you alone.  Kurmudgeon   Jul-21-11 08:25 AM   #15 
  - I enjoy critical thinking and want my thoughts challenged.  Goblinmonger   Jul-21-11 08:29 AM   #17 
     - Nice cartoon downthread.  rug   Jul-21-11 08:46 AM   #20 
     - You have nailed it. nt  Thats my opinion   Jul-21-11 11:10 AM   #40 
  - that is what they said about Galileo nt  Thats my opinion   Jul-21-11 11:08 AM   #39 
     - Who said that about Galileo?  skepticscott   Jul-21-11 05:22 PM   #84 
  - i'm an atheist and i agree.  DesertFlower   Jul-21-11 12:49 AM   #3 
  - Thank you! Glad my opinion was not for naught! eom  hyphenate   Jul-21-11 05:39 PM   #90 
  - You're an accommodationist.  stopbush   Jul-21-11 01:48 AM   #5 
  - So you refuse to accomodate the religious because they refuse to accomodate you?  Speck Tater   Jul-21-11 03:18 AM   #7 
  - That's one reason I kind of like the "New Atheists."  LAGC   Jul-21-11 08:58 AM   #23 
  - I refuse to accomodate religion because it is wrong.  Deep13   Jul-21-11 09:13 AM   #26 
  - So what does the God of Atheism look like? Is he White? Portly?  A Simple Game   Jul-21-11 10:00 AM   #32 
  - You are completely, 100% dead wrong.  Deep13   Jul-21-11 10:34 AM   #34 
  - I'm sorry, I may have made this more complicated than it needs to be.  A Simple Game   Jul-21-11 10:48 AM   #36 
     - And this is where you are in error, atheism isn't a belief system, its the lack of belief in a...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-21-11 12:28 PM   #47 
     - Please read the posts that I was responding to.  A Simple Game   Jul-21-11 10:20 PM   #107 
        - I don't believe in anything with 100% certainty, therein lies foolishness...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-22-11 07:06 PM   #123 
     - Oh that crap again  dmallind   Jul-21-11 12:32 PM   #48 
     - You know, I'd have far less of a problem with people criticizing my beliefs if they were actually...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-21-11 12:44 PM   #51 
     - Congratulations on being rich, please pay more taxes.  A Simple Game   Jul-21-11 10:27 PM   #108 
        - Wow what? Wow you finally understand what atheism means?  dmallind   Jul-22-11 08:29 AM   #114 
           - Let's just leave it at Wow. n/t  A Simple Game   Jul-22-11 04:32 PM   #120 
     - The default logical position is that there is no God.  Manifestor_of_Light   Jul-21-11 03:10 PM   #67 
        - There is no God! You know you are in the minority, don't you?  A Simple Game   Jul-21-11 11:00 PM   #110 
           - Just because millions believe something does not make it true.  Manifestor_of_Light   Jul-22-11 12:57 AM   #111 
              - First of all let me thank you for an informative and thoughtful post.  A Simple Game   Jul-22-11 09:12 AM   #116 
  - How can you claim to be tolerant while saying that most of the religious people...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-21-11 10:34 AM   #35 
  - I judge no ones sincerity.  A Simple Game   Jul-21-11 11:23 AM   #43 
     - In 1200(B.C E. or C.E.?, assuming C.E.) I would have staked on the world being round...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-21-11 12:25 PM   #46 
        - So the world was round in 1200. Good for you.  A Simple Game   Jul-21-11 10:04 PM   #105 
        - Science and religion are completely different.  Manifestor_of_Light   Jul-22-11 01:08 AM   #112 
           - I am not a scientist. If I gave that impression, I am sorry.  A Simple Game   Jul-22-11 09:34 AM   #117 
              - Now this post shows you really don't know what science is at all...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-22-11 05:49 PM   #121 
                 - You seem to have a comprehension problem.  A Simple Game   Jul-22-11 08:45 PM   #126 
                    - No, you have a writing comprehension problem...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-23-11 12:17 PM   #131 
                       - Maybe this will help.  A Simple Game   Jul-23-11 04:17 PM   #133 
        - Has anyone ever proven, "you can't prove a negative?"  immoderate   Jul-21-11 10:47 PM   #109 
           - Yes, its impossible to do so without playing useless semantic games...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-22-11 05:54 PM   #122 
  - No one to speak of 'worships Atheism'  LeftishBrit   Jul-23-11 04:47 PM   #137 
     - It was a struggle, but I found one. Pete's friend on myspace:  dimbear   Jul-23-11 05:19 PM   #138 
  - And as Americans we all have the right to be obnoxious and overbearing.  Speck Tater   Jul-21-11 12:07 PM   #45 
     - Speak for yourself.  Deep13   Jul-21-11 01:08 PM   #56 
     - You sure have a lot of faith in your ideas.  Speck Tater   Jul-21-11 04:13 PM   #72 
     - Hogwash and intellectual cowardice  skepticscott   Jul-22-11 03:32 PM   #118 
     - Well said, Speck Tater  tortoise1956   Jul-23-11 11:19 PM   #142 
  - I agree--that's my point  hyphenate   Jul-22-11 08:53 PM   #127 
  - +1  Deep13   Jul-21-11 09:06 AM   #24 
  - too bad that you seem stuck in a view of religion that is dying a slow deserved death.  Thats my opinion   Jul-21-11 11:15 AM   #41 
     - You keep claiming this when all surveys show US believers are overwhelmingly stuck in that same view  dmallind   Jul-21-11 12:43 PM   #50 
     - And almost half believe we live in the "end times". n/t  Humanist_Activist   Jul-21-11 12:50 PM   #53 
     - Because that's what they have to tell themselves.  trotsky   Jul-21-11 04:21 PM   #76 
     - I never said it was the norm  Thats my opinion   Jul-21-11 07:51 PM   #100 
        - Good - and trust me its success will be inversely proportional to "atheist fundamentalism". nt  dmallind   Jul-21-11 10:14 PM   #106 
     - A strange thing to hear coming from someone  skepticscott   Jul-21-11 05:32 PM   #86 
        - sorry,but you are just inaccurate.  Thats my opinion   Jul-21-11 07:54 PM   #101 
           - Oh, indeed? Here are some of your characterizations  skepticscott   Jul-21-11 08:37 PM   #103 
           - No response, eh?  skepticscott   Jul-23-11 04:40 PM   #135 
  - Exactly who is trying "to disarm people of their inherent right to believe...  Silent3   Jul-21-11 02:14 AM   #6 
  - Right-- that is true of any point of view, including yours nt  Thats my opinion   Jul-21-11 11:17 AM   #42 
     - Yes, so?  Silent3   Jul-21-11 02:49 PM   #66 
  - Let's get Hitchens to stop going door to door leaving tracts.  dimbear   Jul-21-11 03:45 AM   #8 
  - Yeah, and he should stop extorting people every week for tithes and...  Deep13   Jul-21-11 09:14 AM   #27 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jul-21-11 04:49 AM   #9 
  - Relgiousity is pervasive.  Warren Stupidity   Jul-21-11 06:22 AM   #10 
  - Have you actually read any of the "New Atheists"?  trotsky   Jul-21-11 07:01 AM   #11 
  - I've never read them either, not really interested to be honest...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-21-11 01:11 PM   #57 
     - Yep, I've only read The God Delusion.  trotsky   Jul-21-11 01:25 PM   #58 
        - That is the funny thing, except for perhaps Christopher Hitchens, all of the rest...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-21-11 01:30 PM   #59 
  - Accurate and well said.  rug   Jul-21-11 07:29 AM   #13 
  - Yeah and they are so dangerous!  TZ   Jul-21-11 08:12 AM   #14 
  - Athiest fundies, every bit as dangerous as any other kind of fundie.  Kurmudgeon   Jul-21-11 08:26 AM   #16 
     - Nice RW talking point.  Goblinmonger   Jul-21-11 08:31 AM   #18 
     - Do you prefer the term "fanattic atheist?"  okasha   Jul-21-11 08:47 AM   #21 
        - I don't think that's a word.  Goblinmonger   Jul-21-11 08:54 AM   #22 
           - LOL--well, there are a few Mrs. Rochesters in the mix., blowing hot air.  okasha   Jul-21-11 09:24 AM   #29 
              - There you go confusing  skepticscott   Jul-21-11 05:39 PM   #89 
     - Oh, and it's time for this again:  Goblinmonger   Jul-21-11 08:33 AM   #19 
     - Get back to me when atheists try to slit the throats of their children because the rapture isn't...  Humanist_Activist   Jul-21-11 11:59 AM   #44 
     - Yes! Just as dangerous.  Evoman   Jul-21-11 03:43 PM   #71 
     - Yep, just look at these atheists fundies  skepticscott   Jul-24-11 08:28 PM   #148 
  - Did it ever occur to you that more aggressive atheism is just...necessary?  dmallind   Jul-21-11 09:10 AM   #25 
  - It's probably not much of an exaggeration to say  skepticscott   Jul-21-11 05:43 PM   #91 
  - I wrote a response to this several years ago...  Deep13   Jul-21-11 09:17 AM   #28 
  - Bingo. n/t  trotsky   Jul-21-11 10:55 AM   #37 
  - Seems like New Atheism is more a civil rights movement than anything else  starroute   Jul-21-11 09:59 AM   #31 
  - Oh for the love of Murphy!  tortoise1956   Jul-23-11 11:31 PM   #143 
  - We're here, we're queer. We don't think the way you do.  PassingFair   Jul-21-11 10:29 AM   #33 
  - Unless you are queer, please don't attempt to co-opt an LGBT slogan.  okasha   Jul-21-11 12:36 PM   #49 
     - Who are you, WordCop?  PassingFair   Jul-21-11 12:45 PM   #52 
        - I'm a queer woman.  okasha   Jul-21-11 01:04 PM   #54 
           - You don't own words, or slogans.  PassingFair   Jul-21-11 01:08 PM   #55 
           - You lack respect for those who've put their lives on the line  okasha   Jul-21-11 02:13 PM   #63 
              - You don't seem to mind using offensive and ridiculous terms like "fundamentalist atheist"....  PassingFair   Jul-21-11 02:16 PM   #64 
              - You have no fucking clue how ironic your choice to take offense at those words is, do you?  darkstar3   Jul-21-11 07:59 PM   #102 
           - Yes - after all gays and queers never co-opted any existing words!  dmallind   Jul-21-11 03:41 PM   #70 
  - What about a positive new theism?  Thats my opinion   Jul-21-11 11:06 AM   #38 
  - "...the kind of religion these new atheists reject." is any religion that  humblebum   Jul-21-11 01:58 PM   #62 
  - Atheism tolerant, New Atheism intolerant. Huge difference.  humblebum   Jul-21-11 01:40 PM   #60 
  - Old Atheism silent; New Atheism not silent.  Goblinmonger   Jul-21-11 03:14 PM   #68 
  - +1  PassingFair   Jul-21-11 03:32 PM   #69 
  - +10000  Taverner   Jul-21-11 04:18 PM   #75 
  - Depends on what you mean by Old atheism. If you are  humblebum   Jul-21-11 04:37 PM   #78 
     - You're kidding, right?  Goblinmonger   Jul-21-11 06:39 PM   #95 
        - Yep, here's humblebum's picture of Dawkins:  LAGC   Jul-23-11 05:18 AM   #130 
  - Utter horseshit  Taverner   Jul-21-11 04:18 PM   #74 
  - deleted  humblebum   Jul-21-11 04:34 PM   #77 
  - I can see getting upset with Hitchens, if you are a believer  Taverner   Jul-21-11 04:17 PM   #73 
  - Dawkins has turned out to be a raving misogynist.  okasha   Jul-21-11 05:36 PM   #88 
     - You have very perverted criteria  skepticscott   Jul-21-11 05:50 PM   #93 
     - I dunno about "raving misogynist," but yes he has said some misogynist things  Taverner   Jul-21-11 06:27 PM   #94 
        - If Dawkins were a "raving misogynist"  skepticscott   Jul-22-11 05:48 AM   #113 
  - "my focus has never been to disarm people of their inherent right to believe"  ZombieHorde   Jul-21-11 04:41 PM   #79 
  - Excuse me, but Dawkins advocated outlawing the teaching  humblebum   Jul-21-11 04:47 PM   #80 
     - Can I see a link for the Dawkins claim?  ZombieHorde   Jul-21-11 04:49 PM   #81 
     - There was nothing comical about hate speech and he did not  humblebum   Jul-21-11 05:06 PM   #83 
        - The link claims  ZombieHorde   Jul-21-11 05:28 PM   #85 
           - My point is that NEW atheism is very much about radical views and actions.  humblebum   Jul-21-11 05:33 PM   #87 
              - OK. What are the radical views and actions of new atheists? nt  ZombieHorde   Jul-21-11 05:48 PM   #92 
                 - what is this, deja vu? Didn't we just discuss this? nt  humblebum   Jul-21-11 06:47 PM   #96 
                    - You may have with someone else, but I don't remember discussing this with anyone  ZombieHorde   Jul-21-11 06:51 PM   #97 
                       - I believe the exhortation by Hitchens to show  humblebum   Jul-21-11 07:01 PM   #98 
                          - Might be considered radical by some; I agree with that. nt  ZombieHorde   Jul-21-11 07:10 PM   #99 
                          - That's one guy  Goblinmonger   Jul-22-11 08:50 AM   #115 
     - deleted. sorry having posting problems.  humblebum   Jul-21-11 04:56 PM   #82 
  - "Cet animal est trs mchant: quand on l'attaque il se dfend."  dimbear   Jul-21-11 09:54 PM   #104 
  - New Atheism is largely War-on-Terror propaganda  CrawlingChaos   Jul-22-11 04:20 PM   #119 
  - So-called "New Atheism" has focused just as closely  skepticscott   Jul-22-11 08:13 PM   #124 
  - They most certainly have not  CrawlingChaos   Jul-22-11 09:21 PM   #128 
     - Yawn  skepticscott   Jul-23-11 04:46 AM   #129 
        - wow, that was quite a rebuttal  CrawlingChaos   Jul-23-11 03:29 PM   #132 
           - Since you gave me nothing much to rebut  skepticscott   Jul-23-11 04:36 PM   #134 
              - hardly cherry-picking  CrawlingChaos   Jul-23-11 07:38 PM   #139 
                 - Uh, yeah you did  skepticscott   Jul-23-11 08:56 PM   #140 
                    - you seem very confused  CrawlingChaos   Jul-23-11 09:55 PM   #141 
                       - Nice try  skepticscott   Jul-24-11 05:00 AM   #145 
                          - This rudeness  CrawlingChaos   Jul-24-11 06:21 AM   #146 
                             - And of course  skepticscott   Jul-24-11 06:35 AM   #147 
  - That might explain Hitchens' interest.  rug   Jul-22-11 08:15 PM   #125 
  - I rather dislike the term 'New Atheism'...  LeftishBrit   Jul-23-11 04:46 PM   #136 
  - I'll get back to you on this  tortoise1956   Jul-23-11 11:52 PM   #144 

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