| 173. But there is nothing to convince one |
|
that their "understanding" was actually getting more accurate over time, as opposed to simply changing with social and political winds, nor in fact that there was anything outside of their own imaginings that they were attempting to understand in the first place.
|
| -This is what happens when a religion is hijacked for political gain |
Peacetrain |
Jun-29-11 03:35 PM |
#0 |
 -
No True Scotsman... |
provis99 |
Jun-29-11 03:39 PM |
#1 |
  -
somebody is going to have to explain the scotman thing to me |
Peacetrain |
Jun-29-11 03:40 PM |
#3 |
| -
A Tired Forensic Wheeze, Ma'am |
The Magistrate |
Jun-29-11 04:05 PM |
#7 |
| -
TY for the explanation |
Peacetrain |
Jun-29-11 04:19 PM |
#10 |
| -
Here's the original source. |
laconicsax |
Jun-29-11 04:21 PM |
#11 |
| -
wow, somebody unrecced this? a little scared of the truth? |
niyad |
Jun-29-11 03:40 PM |
#2 |
| -
What truth? Everything in the OP seems like opinion. nt |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-29-11 03:42 PM |
#4 |
| -
you mean the quote from hitler? are you the unrec? |
niyad |
Jun-29-11 03:43 PM |
#5 |
| -
I mean the post in its entirety, as a whole object. It's an opinion based OP. |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-29-11 04:45 PM |
#19 |
| -
Okay I'll bite.. what in my op is opinion only? |
Peacetrain |
Jun-29-11 03:52 PM |
#6 |
| -
"This is what happens when a religion is hijacked for political gain" |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-29-11 05:02 PM |
#20 |
| -
The point of the Hitler quote |
Peacetrain |
Jun-29-11 07:25 PM |
#37 |
| -
There are a lot of different interpretations of Christianity, but they're all opinion. |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-29-11 07:52 PM |
#38 |
| -
You miss the point.... but I tried. |
Peacetrain |
Jun-29-11 08:51 PM |
#41 |
| -
No, he knows what your point was. |
trotsky |
Jun-29-11 09:16 PM |
#42 |
| -
okay.. read my op and what is my point.. |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 08:53 AM |
#46 |
| -
Your assumption is that a religion was "hijacked." |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 09:02 AM |
#48 |
| -
Hitler killing millions of people is 180% opposite of my religious stance |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 09:15 AM |
#49 |
| -
Hitler believed he was saving Christianity, and working in the name of Jesus. |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 09:46 AM |
#50 |
| -
Nope.. even if he believed it.. he was going 180 degrees away |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 09:53 AM |
#51 |
| -
Again, I am not disagreeing with you on that. |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 09:56 AM |
#52 |
| -
The golden rule.. |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 09:59 AM |
#53 |
| -
Yes, thank you, that was my point. n/t |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 11:03 AM |
#56 |
| -
But again that is the whole premise of the orignal op. |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 10:01 AM |
#54 |
| -
Not your faith, your INTERPRETATION of it. As I've been saying this whole time. |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 11:03 AM |
#55 |
| -
We really are missing each other on this one aren't we |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 11:08 AM |
#57 |
| -
Zoom in on this: "the stated tenet of the belief system" |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 11:16 AM |
#58 |
| -
Yes I did zoom on exactly that.. |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 11:23 AM |
#59 |
| -
No, you're missing it completely. |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 12:30 PM |
#62 |
| -
It is not open to interpretation.. and that is where we are missing one another |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 12:46 PM |
#64 |
| -
"but you cannot kill millions of people and say you are protecting the Christian faith" |
cleanhippie |
Jun-30-11 02:41 PM |
#72 |
| -
You cannot be a Christian and kill millions of people in gas chambers |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 02:54 PM |
#73 |
| -
Oh, so now its gas chambers? Your goalposts seem to have wheels. |
cleanhippie |
Jun-30-11 03:08 PM |
#74 |
| -
Hitler had millions killed in gas chambers.. |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 03:11 PM |
#75 |
| -
Lets review exatcly what you said. |
cleanhippie |
Jun-30-11 03:55 PM |
#79 |
| -
That is right you cannot kill millions of people and claim you are protecting the Christian faith |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 04:01 PM |
#80 |
| -
Still waiting for the biblical claim you said of Christians killing millions in the bible |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 04:03 PM |
#81 |
| -
This clearly is at a dead end. |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 07:29 PM |
#90 |
| -
Well I do not know how to explain it anymore either. |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 08:26 PM |
#93 |
| -
Answer me just one question that you have completely avoided: |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 08:32 PM |
#94 |
| -
Trotsky.. there is no wrong or right interpretations |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 08:37 PM |
#95 |
| -
You're still not answering the question. |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 09:45 PM |
#98 |
| -
No. |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 06:04 AM |
#101 |
| -
Wow. |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 06:16 AM |
#103 |
| -
You really are having a hard time with this |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 06:53 AM |
#104 |
| -
You sound as certain about your beliefs... |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 07:06 AM |
#105 |
| -
I am certain that you cannot kill millions of people and claim |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 07:59 AM |
#108 |
| -
What if an army of 2 million soldiers had their sworn goal as the destruction of Christianity? |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 08:17 AM |
#110 |
| -
I thought you left.. you keep saying goodby and back in :) |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 08:34 AM |
#113 |
| -
You're getting closer! |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 08:50 AM |
#114 |
| -
No you cannot take this and make an argument for Hitler |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 08:53 AM |
#115 |
| -
I'm not making an argument for him. |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 08:55 AM |
#116 |
| -
So a person of faith has no right to have perimeters or values to live by? |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 08:59 AM |
#117 |
| -
I didn't say that. |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 09:02 AM |
#118 |
| -
In this case, it is not what I said.. it is what the text for Christians say |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 09:08 AM |
#119 |
| -
Because you said so. |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 09:14 AM |
#120 |
| -
We are done again? |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 09:19 AM |
#121 |
| -
Well, I kinda thought we had a chance for some progress... |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 09:20 AM |
#122 |
| -
Oh trotsky.. I have enjoyed talking to you |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 09:23 AM |
#123 |
| -
I always find it amazing when someone is in their own circular logic loop and cannot see it. |
cleanhippie |
Jul-01-11 01:57 PM |
#130 |
| -
Still waiting for the biblical claim you said of Christians killing millions in the bible |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 02:16 PM |
#131 |
| -
Since google must not be working for you... |
cleanhippie |
Jul-01-11 04:20 PM |
#136 |
| -
The only person rationalizing.. is you.. |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 04:41 PM |
#139 |
| -
Wait, what? You are the one that believes in the supernatural, and *I* am the one rationalizing? |
cleanhippie |
Jul-01-11 05:10 PM |
#141 |
| -
Just admit it.. You were wrong.. |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 05:18 PM |
#143 |
| -
No he's right. |
edhopper |
Jul-02-11 08:28 AM |
#145 |
| -
You are making the same error that he did |
Peacetrain |
Jul-02-11 08:35 AM |
#146 |
| -
So was the OT God |
edhopper |
Jul-02-11 08:44 AM |
#147 |
| -
Now you are on a totally differenet subject. |
Peacetrain |
Jul-02-11 08:48 AM |
#148 |
| -
No I am going by YOUR assertion that |
edhopper |
Jul-02-11 09:29 AM |
#150 |
| -
You can't |
Peacetrain |
Jul-02-11 09:35 AM |
#151 |
| -
So the |
edhopper |
Jul-02-11 09:51 AM |
#152 |
| -
You want me to defend my belief system? |
Peacetrain |
Jul-02-11 10:12 AM |
#153 |
| -
You can believe what you want |
edhopper |
Jul-02-11 12:17 PM |
#158 |
| -
Ah, so you don't believe that any of the genocides and massacres |
okasha |
Jul-02-11 12:36 PM |
#159 |
| -
There is nothing to defend..Absolutes have a place when you define yourself. |
Peacetrain |
Jul-02-11 01:36 PM |
#160 |
| -
ed.. I have to get going for a while |
Peacetrain |
Jul-02-11 10:31 AM |
#154 |
| -
How about your answering the question I asked in #149? |
okasha |
Jul-02-11 10:34 AM |
#155 |
| -
Let's get something clear. |
okasha |
Jul-02-11 08:59 AM |
#149 |
| -
That's exactly what the claim is. It's always the same, |
Leontius |
Jul-02-11 10:37 AM |
#156 |
| -
He certainly seems to be avoiding the question. |
okasha |
Jul-02-11 10:46 AM |
#157 |
| -
Sure. It's a "gotcha." |
okasha |
Jul-02-11 03:43 PM |
#161 |
| -
Are these questions for |
edhopper |
Jul-03-11 09:36 AM |
#162 |
| -
They're for you, |
okasha |
Jul-03-11 09:54 AM |
#163 |
| -
The point I was making was in to reference to |
edhopper |
Jul-03-11 10:13 AM |
#164 |
| -
So why don't you ask Peacetrain whether she believes |
okasha |
Jul-03-11 11:55 AM |
#168 |
| -
I am not sure where you are coming from |
edhopper |
Jul-03-11 12:02 PM |
#169 |
| -
You're attempting to relate things that aren't related. |
okasha |
Jul-03-11 12:39 PM |
#170 |
| -
But to be straight |
edhopper |
Jul-03-11 12:50 PM |
#171 |
| -
If you're referring to the Bible, |
okasha |
Jul-03-11 12:59 PM |
#172 |
| -
But there is nothing to convince one |
skepticscott |
Jul-03-11 01:16 PM |
#173 |
| -
Excellent explanation of what the Bible is and the diversity of the |
Leontius |
Jul-03-11 02:21 PM |
#174 |
| -
I see several such themes. |
okasha |
Jul-03-11 03:33 PM |
#175 |
| -
Was "love thy neighbor" |
skepticscott |
Jul-03-11 06:24 PM |
#176 |
| -
Well, scott, first you want to prove that the slaughter took place. |
okasha |
Jul-03-11 06:50 PM |
#177 |
| -
Sheesh, could your argument be any lamer? |
skepticscott |
Jul-03-11 08:46 PM |
#178 |
| -
Actually, there are several issues here. |
okasha |
Jul-03-11 09:06 PM |
#179 |
| -
As scott pointed out |
edhopper |
Jul-04-11 08:52 AM |
#180 |
| -
Wrong. |
okasha |
Jul-04-11 09:48 AM |
#181 |
| -
What we don't understand |
edhopper |
Jul-04-11 10:39 AM |
#182 |
| -
For what has got to be the dozenth time: |
okasha |
Jul-04-11 12:07 PM |
#184 |
| -
What do you believe as a pagan? |
edhopper |
Jul-04-11 01:23 PM |
#186 |
| -
I'm a panentheist. |
okasha |
Jul-04-11 03:16 PM |
#191 |
| -
The point, since you seem to need to have it explained to you |
skepticscott |
Jul-04-11 11:43 AM |
#183 |
| -
Are you asserting none of it is true |
edhopper |
Jul-03-11 10:15 AM |
#165 |
| -
No. That was your assertion. |
okasha |
Jul-03-11 10:47 AM |
#166 |
| -
I suggest you actually read the book. |
okasha |
Jul-04-11 12:10 PM |
#185 |
| -
You mean the Bible? |
edhopper |
Jul-04-11 01:45 PM |
#187 |
| -
Or do you mean Crossan |
edhopper |
Jul-04-11 02:55 PM |
#188 |
| -
I do suggest Crossan. |
okasha |
Jul-04-11 03:04 PM |
#190 |
| -
I apologize, edhopper. |
okasha |
Jul-04-11 03:00 PM |
#189 |
| -
Okay |
edhopper |
Jul-04-11 05:05 PM |
#192 |
| -
Simple rule: |
okasha |
Jul-04-11 05:48 PM |
#193 |
| -
delete for thread glitch |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 12:48 PM |
#65 |
| -
delete for thread glitch |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 12:49 PM |
#66 |
| -
Where do you get that Hitler was saving Christianity? |
Leontius |
Jun-30-11 11:37 AM |
#60 |
| -
Mein Kampf. |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 12:32 PM |
#63 |
| -
Then you must also accept this as true, right, Hitler said it. |
Leontius |
Jun-30-11 02:22 PM |
#71 |
| -
"Not an exact quote but I believe quite close..." |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 07:26 PM |
#89 |
| -
It is rather a long speech and I have no time to type the whole thing |
Leontius |
Jun-30-11 09:20 PM |
#96 |
| -
Ah yes, the classic dodge. |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 09:46 PM |
#99 |
| -
Backed up my statement with the name and date of speech |
Leontius |
Jun-30-11 11:02 PM |
#100 |
| -
Are all Christians as pleasant and accommodating as you? |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 06:15 AM |
#102 |
| -
I am quite pleasant when I'm not automatically accused of lying, |
Leontius |
Jul-01-11 07:48 AM |
#106 |
| -
Didn't accuse you of lying. |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 07:50 AM |
#107 |
| -
I will, thanks, but one simple question, why the |
Leontius |
Jul-01-11 08:12 AM |
#109 |
| -
Because it *is* a classic dodge. |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 08:18 AM |
#111 |
| -
Okay got you, bottle fed |
Leontius |
Jul-01-11 08:24 AM |
#112 |
| -
"Hitler killing millions of people is 180% opposite of my religious stance" |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-30-11 12:58 PM |
#68 |
| -
Good read.. |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 01:42 PM |
#70 |
| -
My intrepration of Christian scripture is significantly closer to yours than Hitler's. |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-30-11 03:21 PM |
#76 |
| -
I am following your line of thought |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 03:28 PM |
#78 |
| -
Most interpretations I am aware of believe love thy neighbor refers to humans only. |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-30-11 06:28 PM |
#87 |
| -
We do have some hints. |
okasha |
Jun-30-11 05:13 PM |
#83 |
| -
Clearly your third party undocumented rumors trump everything else. |
trotsky |
Jun-30-11 07:31 PM |
#91 |
| -
President Obama has not gone to church very often since he became our executive. |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-30-11 08:23 PM |
#92 |
| -
Of course, not attending church isn't evidence a person doesn't believe in God. |
okasha |
Jun-30-11 09:21 PM |
#97 |
| -
Anyone who uses birth control wouldn't be considered a "good" or "devout" Catholic either. |
trotsky |
Jul-01-11 09:36 AM |
#124 |
| -
I agree Hitler was not an ideal Catholic. nt |
ZombieHorde |
Jul-01-11 12:26 PM |
#128 |
| -
Will you directly state the point? nt |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-29-11 10:03 PM |
#44 |
| -
See post 46 |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 08:54 AM |
#47 |
| -
I completely understand not wanting to have the same conversation with two different posters, |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-30-11 12:25 PM |
#61 |
| -
Sounds great.. look forward to it |
Peacetrain |
Jun-30-11 12:53 PM |
#67 |
| -
I made the following reply... |
ZombieHorde |
Jun-30-11 01:03 PM |
#69 |
| -
Nowadays, it's flown into the structure of government. |
damntexdem |
Jun-29-11 04:10 PM |
#8 |
| -
“The first requisite for the happiness of the people is the abolition of religion” nt |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 04:18 PM |
#9 |
| -
Ahh...but there you have it.. the state became the tyrant |
Peacetrain |
Jun-29-11 04:24 PM |
#12 |
| -
So are you saying that atheism is not an element of Marxism? NT |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 04:30 PM |
#14 |
| -
Nope not at all..but the origins of the socialistic state should have been |
Peacetrain |
Jun-29-11 04:34 PM |
#15 |
| -
Agree. |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 04:38 PM |
#17 |
| -
Indeed. |
LeftishBrit |
Jul-03-11 11:54 AM |
#167 |
| -
If You Are Going You Quote Marx, Mr. Bum, Quote Marx.... |
The Magistrate |
Jun-29-11 04:28 PM |
#13 |
| -
So am I supposed to be impressed with your ability to copy and paste? |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 04:35 PM |
#16 |
| -
You, Sir, Are Supposed To and Expected To Whine, As You Have Done |
The Magistrate |
Jun-29-11 04:44 PM |
#18 |
| -
It is hardly necessary to recite the "whole body of Marxist thought" |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 05:14 PM |
#22 |
| -
When You say That Quote is Its essence, Sir, It Certainly is Necessary To Show Knowledge Of It All |
The Magistrate |
Jun-29-11 05:19 PM |
#23 |
| -
I never said "That Quote is Its essence", but that particular quote |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 05:23 PM |
#24 |
| -
Not So, Sir: You Maintain Communism Is All About Atheism, and Brandish that As Proof |
The Magistrate |
Jun-29-11 05:25 PM |
#25 |
| -
I also never said nor suggested "Communism Is All About Atheism." |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 05:32 PM |
#26 |
| -
There You Go Again, Sir, Contradicting Your Opener In The Body Of the Comment |
The Magistrate |
Jun-29-11 05:43 PM |
#27 |
| -
I have never even suggested that communism was all about atheism |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 05:53 PM |
#28 |
| -
This Is Too Sad To Continue With, Fella, On Such a Sunny Day With a Grand-Daughter On My Lap |
The Magistrate |
Jun-29-11 05:57 PM |
#29 |
| -
Enjoy your grandchildren. |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 06:10 PM |
#32 |
| -
It is you who have ludicrously attempted to attribute |
skepticscott |
Jun-29-11 06:09 PM |
#31 |
| -
And where did i ever do that? nt |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 06:12 PM |
#33 |
| -
Here, among many other places... |
skepticscott |
Jun-29-11 06:34 PM |
#34 |
| -
A true statement. They were atheists and atheist dictators. |
humblebum |
Jun-29-11 06:58 PM |
#36 |
| -
Not surprised to see you continue your |
skepticscott |
Jun-29-11 08:19 PM |
#39 |
| -
History is what it is. Sorry if that bothers you. nt |
humblebum |
Jun-30-11 02:50 AM |
#45 |
| -
And they weren't all poker players or dictators with brown hair, |
humblebum |
Jun-30-11 03:23 PM |
#77 |
| -
Oh, please, show us the documentation |
skepticscott |
Jun-30-11 04:51 PM |
#82 |
| -
There you go again purposely misquoting me. Where did I |
humblebum |
Jun-30-11 05:32 PM |
#84 |
| -
You said that 130 million people |
skepticscott |
Jun-30-11 06:00 PM |
#85 |
| -
Those sources do indeed enumerate the incidents that I have |
humblebum |
Jun-30-11 06:15 PM |
#86 |
| -
Since You Continue This, Sir, The Fraud You Engage In Should Be Laid Out Clearly For The Audience |
The Magistrate |
Jul-01-11 01:55 PM |
#129 |
| -
Your are making some outrageous assumptions about what you |
humblebum |
Jul-01-11 02:19 PM |
#132 |
| -
You Have Confronted Me With Nothing But Very Poor Efforts At Propaganda, Sir |
The Magistrate |
Jul-01-11 03:35 PM |
#133 |
| -
There is no question that you are in denial. |
humblebum |
Jul-01-11 04:07 PM |
#134 |
| -
You Do Not Even Present A Point With That, Sir, Let Alone Sustain It |
The Magistrate |
Jul-01-11 04:15 PM |
#135 |
| -
You keep trying to tell me what I think and what I am trying to rebutt, |
humblebum |
Jul-01-11 04:34 PM |
#137 |
| -
If You Find Accurate Description Uncomfortable, Sir, There is Always The Option Of Change.... |
The Magistrate |
Jul-01-11 04:38 PM |
#138 |
| -
You seem to be the one to "Find Accurate Description Uncomfortable." |
humblebum |
Jul-01-11 05:05 PM |
#140 |
| -
This, Sir, is Below Even Your Own Accustomed Level, Poor As It Is |
The Magistrate |
Jul-01-11 05:13 PM |
#142 |
| -
Your blizzard of phony accusations, sir, has been nothing more |
humblebum |
Jul-01-11 05:38 PM |
#144 |
| -
! |
laconicsax |
Jun-29-11 06:37 PM |
#35 |
| -
Important warning; thanks! |
LeftishBrit |
Jun-29-11 05:06 PM |
#21 |
| -
Is it the exception or the rule in history |
skepticscott |
Jun-29-11 06:07 PM |
#30 |
| -
How is our current time anything particularly different or special ? |
dimbear |
Jun-29-11 08:24 PM |
#40 |
| -
Now this sounds interesting... |
onager |
Jun-29-11 09:39 PM |
#43 |
| -
Thanks for posting Peacetrain |
edhopper |
Jun-30-11 07:01 PM |
#88 |
| -
.... |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 10:33 AM |
#127 |
| -
I guess I thought religion existed for political gain. |
Deep13 |
Jul-01-11 09:38 AM |
#125 |
| -
Which came first the chicken or the egg? Good question |
Peacetrain |
Jul-01-11 10:31 AM |
#126 |
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