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Reply #201: YES, they do, and it's relevant because you have stated that religion is not encroaching on the [View All]

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iris27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-11 11:48 PM
Response to Reply #179
201. YES, they do, and it's relevant because you have stated that religion is not encroaching on the
rights of women and minorities. These legal restrictions are in place as a direct result of religious lobbying, and they are absolutely infrigements on the human rights of women and gays.

Forty-eight states (or 96%) have at least one of several legal restrictions on abortion. The other 2 states (New Hampshire and Oklahoma) have both tried to pass one or more of these restrictions, but their state courts have stopped them and saw the laws violate the state constitution. These restrictions are:

- parental notice
- parental consent
- mandatory waiting periods
- mandatory "counseling"
- restrictions on state funding for abortions, for those with state-funded healthcare
- "informed consent", which means you have to listen to them recite a state-mandated spiel, some of which may not even be medically accurate. Here in Missouri, they were required to tell me that the fetus could feel pain...I was at 5 weeks so technically it wasn't even a fetus yet...I'll spare everyone the long-winded clinical explanation of just how WRONG the idea that a 5-week embryo can feel pain is...go look at if you're interested.

They even attempted SPOUSAL consent back in the 1990's, but the Supreme Court shot that down in Casey v. Planned Parenthood.

Marriage restrictions...41 states currently have outright prohibitions, either through law or through constitutional amendment, against gay marriage. Only five states currently allow marriage between two consenting adults without discrimination on the basis of gender. (The other 4 are in a murky middle of recognizing some gay marriages while not currently permitting any to be done in their own state.)

Oh, and before Loving v. Virginia in the 50's, there were marriage restrictions against interracial marriage too, which were ALSO heavily dependent on religious reasoning. The Virginia judge that initially ruled against the Lovings, which meant they had to bring their case to the Supremes, wrote the following in his ruling:

"Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races show that he did not intend for the races to mix."

Stop minimizing the lived experiences of others who have encountered the world with less privilege than you possess. I do not expect to have seen as much racism out in the world as my friends of color have seen. Why do you insist that if you cannot see it, it is not there? Particularly for easily summoned facts like state-based abortion restrictions, and culturally *screamingly* obvious facts like the prevalence of gay marriage?
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  -Book critiquing atheism wins Archbishop's prize rug  May-30-11 09:22 AM   #0 
  - There's an interesting review of this book on Amazon.  Jim__   May-30-11 09:41 AM   #1 
  - Interesting review. Thanks for the link.  rug   May-30-11 10:05 AM   #2 
  - So the book says nothing new, from what I can tell.  darkstar3   May-30-11 10:43 AM   #3 
  - I'm sure you've read it.  rug   May-30-11 10:47 AM   #4 
     - The various reviews were quite enough.  darkstar3   May-30-11 10:52 AM   #5 
     - I can't read them all!  Deep13   May-31-11 01:44 PM   #68 
  - Bear shits in woods. Film at 11.  Silent3   May-30-11 11:08 AM   #6 
  - Better title: Book critiquing not-believing-what-we-do wins archbishops prize.  cleanhippie   May-30-11 11:38 AM   #7 
  - When someone calls out a group that thrives on the constant "derision of people"  humblebum   May-30-11 01:38 PM   #10 
     - Staying classy, I see. n/t  laconicsax   May-30-11 01:39 PM   #12 
     - When someone calls out a group that thrives on the constant "derision of people"  sudopod   May-30-11 01:43 PM   #14 
     - It is shame that you miss the point................  Angry Dragon   May-30-11 02:02 PM   #15 
     - He's a pretty big point misser. n/t  Goblinmonger   May-30-11 03:07 PM   #20 
     - My point is perfectly clear. RADICAL atheism needs to be challenged  humblebum   May-30-11 05:07 PM   #22 
        - Bwahahahahahahahaha!  cleanhippie   May-30-11 05:36 PM   #23 
        - Looks like you could use some reinforcements.  laconicsax   May-30-11 08:54 PM   #29 
        - I have not seen radical atheism  Angry Dragon   May-30-11 05:36 PM   #24 
        - What is RADICAL atheism?  LeftishBrit   May-30-11 05:47 PM   #25 
        - I don't think radical atheism needs much explanation. It is  humblebum   May-30-11 06:39 PM   #26 
        - You still can't grasp the difference between  skepticscott   May-30-11 09:40 PM   #30 
        - so, this group is full of anti-theists?  kwassa   May-30-11 10:45 PM   #31 
        - I am not anti-theist; I am pro-secularist  LeftishBrit   May-31-11 03:25 AM   #46 
        - This group has a lot of posters  skepticscott   May-31-11 08:36 AM   #57 
           - Not at all. What does dismay, but not surprise, is the vitriol  kwassa   Jun-01-11 09:10 PM   #115 
              - Could you give some examples of that?  laconicsax   Jun-01-11 09:36 PM   #120 
                 - Invisible sky people.  kwassa   Jun-01-11 09:44 PM   #124 
                    - No, derisive as can be would be FAR worse.  darkstar3   Jun-01-11 10:33 PM   #129 
                    - It is not an honest expression of opinion. It is words chosen to inflame.  kwassa   Jun-02-11 09:12 PM   #146 
                       - Would you prefer "Secret Santa in the sky"?  darkstar3   Jun-02-11 11:59 PM   #165 
                    - Wow, that's as derisive as you can imagine? You must be incredibly thin-skinned.  laconicsax   Jun-01-11 11:12 PM   #131 
                    - It isn't flippant, it is insulting.  kwassa   Jun-02-11 09:15 PM   #147 
                       - Yet you call bullying, hazing, loss of business, death threats, etc. "trivial."  laconicsax   Jun-02-11 09:53 PM   #152 
                          - Bullying happens every day, for many reasons.  kwassa   Jun-02-11 10:03 PM   #153 
                             - Of course you aren't convinced. You dismiss reality in favor of your nice comfortable fantasy.  laconicsax   Jun-02-11 10:20 PM   #157 
                                - Excuse me.  kwassa   Jun-02-11 10:28 PM   #158 
                                   - You are a white, straight, Christian male in the US.  darkstar3   Jun-03-11 12:01 AM   #166 
                                   - Shows nothing, actually.  kwassa   Jun-03-11 10:35 PM   #175 
                                   - You seem to view yourself as entitled to details of my personal life. Quelle arrogance.  laconicsax   Jun-03-11 12:29 AM   #169 
                                   - Whatever. You make a statement, you won't substantiate it.  kwassa   Jun-03-11 10:33 PM   #174 
                                   - Uh huh. I must have made it all up.  laconicsax   Jun-03-11 10:59 PM   #180 
                    - THAT'S as derisive as can be?  LeftishBrit   Jun-02-11 02:43 AM   #136 
                       - I am talking about derisiveness on DU, not the world at large.  kwassa   Jun-02-11 09:10 PM   #145 
                          - 'So what?' Who has more influence on politics and public life? The leaders of Christian Right groups  LeftishBrit   Jun-03-11 02:54 AM   #173 
                             - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-03-11 11:06 PM   #181 
        - That's rather much of a default reply, isn't it. Yes, I know the difference.  humblebum   May-30-11 10:59 PM   #34 
           - Clearly you do not.  darkstar3   May-30-11 11:03 PM   #36 
           - Another empty retort. NT  humblebum   May-31-11 06:46 AM   #48 
           - Your attempt to characterize any form of atheism  skepticscott   May-31-11 08:31 AM   #56 
              - I clearly distinguish between simple atheism and radical atheism.nt  humblebum   May-31-11 09:01 AM   #60 
                 - We LOVE the theist. We hate the religion. I also hate injustice.  immoderate   May-31-11 04:30 PM   #76 
        - In other words, it's OK to be an atheist so long as you don't discuss it or actively promote it?  LeftishBrit   May-31-11 03:07 AM   #45 
           - It is OK to be anything you want to be, but  humblebum   May-31-11 01:33 PM   #65 
              - What line?  darkstar3   May-31-11 01:41 PM   #66 
              - That one. nt  humblebum   May-31-11 03:44 PM   #74 
                 - Which one? The imaginary one in your head?  darkstar3   May-31-11 03:56 PM   #75 
                    - No. The one you keep tripping over. nt  humblebum   May-31-11 11:40 PM   #87 
                       - If you can't define it, best leave it alone.  darkstar3   May-31-11 11:47 PM   #88 
                          - It's hard to see it with you laying face down on top of it.nt  humblebum   Jun-01-11 03:37 AM   #94 
                             - Your creativity is lacking, and you do nothing to express your point here.  darkstar3   Jun-01-11 08:27 AM   #97 
                                - it's amazing how you continue to speak so clearly with your face to the floor. nt  humblebum   Jun-01-11 02:59 PM   #107 
                                   - As I suspected.  darkstar3   Jun-01-11 04:03 PM   #108 
                                      - I like how you used the "for now" thing. Usually it's good bye foreve and then  humblebum   Jun-01-11 04:47 PM   #112 
              - Ridicule has been deemed as acceptable and encouraged by Stephen Colbert  muriel_volestrangler   May-31-11 05:00 PM   #77 
                 - Huge difference between comical sarcastic criticism and ridicule, IMO. nt  humblebum   May-31-11 11:47 PM   #89 
                 - I don't know about that. I think one person's comical sarcastic criticism is often another person's  LeftishBrit   Jun-04-11 10:54 AM   #189 
                 - Have Jon Stewart and Stephen Colbert ridiculed all religious belief?  kwassa   Jun-01-11 09:13 PM   #116 
                    - Google "This Week in God."  darkstar3   Jun-01-11 10:34 PM   #130 
                    - Don't need to, I've watched it for years.  kwassa   Jun-04-11 10:07 PM   #195 
                    - Are you saying some religious belief should get a special exemption from normal criticism?  muriel_volestrangler   Jun-02-11 10:48 AM   #140 
                       - I agree.  kwassa   Jun-04-11 10:06 PM   #194 
                          - I think what you're complaining about is "trivial."  darkstar3   Jun-04-11 10:16 PM   #197 
                             - I have no doubt that you do.  kwassa   Jun-04-11 11:12 PM   #199 
                                - LOL. U MAD?  darkstar3   Jun-04-11 11:28 PM   #200 
        - I would call it dogmatic atheism.  kwassa   May-30-11 10:49 PM   #32 
           - And the dogma would be?  darkstar3   May-30-11 11:02 PM   #35 
           - That God doesn't exist, that believers are deluded individuals who  kwassa   May-30-11 11:11 PM   #38 
              - So the expression of an opinion is now a dogma?  darkstar3   May-30-11 11:30 PM   #40 
              - You are creating a strawman, of course  kwassa   Jun-01-11 09:16 PM   #117 
                 - Poorly dodged.  darkstar3   Jun-01-11 10:32 PM   #128 
                    - No, you attempted a pointless diversion.  kwassa   Jun-02-11 09:29 PM   #151 
                       - You were the one who chose his words poorly.  darkstar3   Jun-02-11 11:50 PM   #162 
                          - Educated?  kwassa   Jun-03-11 10:38 PM   #176 
              - We offer theists every opportunity  skepticscott   May-31-11 05:24 PM   #78 
                 - You miss the point  kwassa   Jun-01-11 09:18 PM   #118 
           - There are those who believe that ANYTHING is a cause to be evangelized  LeftishBrit   May-31-11 03:30 AM   #47 
        - Maybe you can give us some examples.  Deep13   Jun-01-11 12:55 PM   #100 
     - Atheists do not thrive on 'constant derision' of believers. They just don't believe.  LeftishBrit   May-30-11 02:34 PM   #17 
     - Some atheists definitely do thrive on the derision of believers.  kwassa   May-30-11 10:52 PM   #33 
        - Are you feeling derided? Perhaps you should stop swatting others on the nose...  darkstar3   May-30-11 11:10 PM   #37 
        - Are you giving advice?  kwassa   May-30-11 11:14 PM   #39 
           - I'm not worried about my house.  darkstar3   May-30-11 11:40 PM   #41 
              - "persecution, derision, hateful oppression"  rug   May-31-11 06:52 AM   #49 
                 - Not suprised to see you chime in, enjoying your majority status.  trotsky   May-31-11 07:16 AM   #51 
                 - I guess my only choice then would be to burn all my money.  rug   May-31-11 07:22 AM   #52 
                    - Fuck the minority! Hell yeah!  trotsky   May-31-11 07:36 AM   #53 
                    - No. But...  LeftishBrit   May-31-11 07:48 AM   #55 
                       - No, I would not.  rug   May-31-11 10:15 AM   #62 
                       - That depends on whether they in fact suffer discrimination as a result of their beliefs...  LeftishBrit   May-31-11 03:15 PM   #72 
                       - Their beliefs or their conclusions?  rug   May-31-11 07:50 PM   #84 
                       - OK, lack of belief...  LeftishBrit   Jun-01-11 03:16 AM   #93 
                          - Religious discrimination that is applied to atheists?  rug   Jun-01-11 07:29 AM   #95 
                             - Discrimination by a religious majority because of failure  skepticscott   Jun-01-11 08:10 AM   #96 
                             - Fine. Atheists are victims of religious discrimination.  rug   Jun-01-11 01:08 PM   #102 
                                - The hard part seems to be admitting which group is the persecutor.  darkstar3   Jun-01-11 01:17 PM   #103 
                                - But is the persecution religious persecution?  rug   Jun-01-11 01:45 PM   #104 
                                - One religious majority persecutes people who are not members of that religious majority.  darkstar3   Jun-01-11 01:51 PM   #105 
                                - The motive for the persecution is religious, so yes  LeftishBrit   Jun-01-11 04:38 PM   #110 
                                - OK., and in all cases it's a bad thing.  LeftishBrit   Jun-01-11 04:44 PM   #111 
                             - Do you not agree ...  LeftishBrit   Jun-01-11 08:29 AM   #98 
                                - Trade unionists, socialists, nationalists and groups of all stripes habe been persecuted.  rug   Jun-01-11 01:07 PM   #101 
                       - The ostracism is highly exaggerated.  kwassa   Jun-01-11 09:30 PM   #119 
                          - Spoken like a true member of the majority. n/t  laconicsax   Jun-01-11 09:41 PM   #123 
                          - and what persecution have you suffered?  kwassa   Jun-01-11 09:45 PM   #125 
                             - I'm glad you asked.  laconicsax   Jun-01-11 11:21 PM   #133 
                          - Absolute bullshit.  darkstar3   Jun-01-11 10:08 PM   #127 
                          - Speaking as an American, the vast majority of the country cares very little about religion.  kwassa   Jun-02-11 10:05 AM   #138 
                             - Pull the wool over your own eyes if you want, but don't bullshit the rest of us.  darkstar3   Jun-02-11 10:27 AM   #139 
                             - They aren't enroaching on the rights. They can't.  kwassa   Jun-02-11 09:26 PM   #149 
                                - You know that isn't true.  laconicsax   Jun-02-11 10:11 PM   #154 
                                - I don't believe that statistic for one second.  kwassa   Jun-03-11 10:48 PM   #178 
                                - Even if that's the correct statistic, you're still wrong.  laconicsax   Jun-03-11 11:08 PM   #182 
                                - 40% is a minority. I am not wrong.  kwassa   Jun-04-11 10:04 PM   #193 
                                - Which brings me back to my original point.  laconicsax   Jun-05-11 04:40 PM   #203 
                                - Abortion restrictions and marriage restrictions exist in the majority of the US.  darkstar3   Jun-02-11 11:52 PM   #163 
                                - Oh, come on darkstar3, those don't affect straight men, so they don't *really* exist.  laconicsax   Jun-03-11 12:30 AM   #170 
                                - 1) No, they don't. 2) What is the relevance to this topic?  kwassa   Jun-03-11 10:50 PM   #179 
                                - That it's lost on you is sadly predictable. n/t  laconicsax   Jun-03-11 11:09 PM   #184 
                                - That some can't substantiate their claims is also predictable.  kwassa   Jun-04-11 10:09 PM   #196 
                                - YES, they do, and it's relevant because you have stated that religion is not encroaching on the  iris27   Jun-04-11 11:48 PM   #201 
                                - +1000  laconicsax   Jun-04-11 11:51 PM   #202 
                                - Do you know the difference between religion and culture?  kwassa   Jun-07-11 10:18 PM   #204 
                             - Yes, receiving death threats is "pretty trivial stuff."  laconicsax   Jun-02-11 12:55 PM   #141 
                                - I think most of what darkstar talked about was pretty trivial stuff.  kwassa   Jun-02-11 09:28 PM   #150 
                                   - In the a blue state, from a stranger who engaged me in conversation.  laconicsax   Jun-02-11 10:48 PM   #159 
                                   - Thank you for the details.  kwassa   Jun-03-11 10:42 PM   #177 
                                   - Feel free to ignore it if it's inconvenient to your fantasy. n/t  laconicsax   Jun-03-11 11:11 PM   #185 
                          - Have you lived, as an atheist, in these major metropolitan areas of which you speak?  iris27   Jun-01-11 11:16 PM   #132 
                             - I've lived all over the country.  kwassa   Jun-02-11 09:24 PM   #148 
                                - Sitting quietly in the back of the bus and not making a fuss was in the power of black people, too.  darkstar3   Jun-02-11 11:54 PM   #164 
                                   - what a non-sequitur.  kwassa   Jun-03-11 11:08 PM   #183 
                                      - Your deafness is really precious. n/t  laconicsax   Jun-03-11 11:12 PM   #186 
                                      - Go back to eating billy goats.  darkstar3   Jun-04-11 12:21 AM   #187 
                                      - Do you have a response that involves actual content? Apparently not.  kwassa   Jun-04-11 09:53 PM   #192 
                                      - Non-content for non-content.  darkstar3   Jun-04-11 10:21 PM   #198 
                       - I realize now that I probably misunderstood your earlier post...  LeftishBrit   Jun-04-11 10:51 AM   #188 
                          - The Queen as the Head of the Church of England is still  Leontius   Jun-04-11 11:27 AM   #190 
                             - Yes- but the term is an anachronism because it was devised to refer to defending Catholicism, not  LeftishBrit   Jun-04-11 11:36 AM   #191 
                       - Religious people of the right wing have no monopoly  okasha   May-31-11 10:35 AM   #63 
                          - II wasn't; I was drawing parallels between a variety of situations where a powerful majority act as  LeftishBrit   May-31-11 12:16 PM   #64 
                 - What? Oh, I see, you think I meant those words in regard to the money.  darkstar3   May-31-11 09:43 AM   #61 
        - See my first paragraph, as to possible reasons why some atheists deride believers  LeftishBrit   May-31-11 07:39 AM   #54 
     - Again, color me not surprised.  cleanhippie   May-30-11 03:03 PM   #19 
     - No. It's the beliefs I criticize and sometimes deride.  Deep13   May-31-11 08:40 AM   #59 
  - " subverting the cruelest aspects of pagan society "  sudopod   May-30-11 01:34 PM   #8 
  - At the point of a spear, no less. n/t  laconicsax   May-30-11 01:39 PM   #11 
     - At least the vikings were honest when they killed you and took your stuff.  sudopod   May-30-11 01:41 PM   #13 
  - "bringing liberation from fatalism, conferring great dignity on human beings," LOL WUT?  laconicsax   May-30-11 01:37 PM   #9 
  - IOW, the usual revisionism and propaganda  onager   May-30-11 02:04 PM   #16 
  - ... This particular astrolabe, dated 1326, resembles the instrument described in Geoffrey Chaucer's  struggle4progress   May-31-11 12:23 AM   #42 
  - OK, you win - only ALMOST a thousand years...  onager   May-31-11 12:50 AM   #43 
  - We've established that you make careless statements, indifferent to the actual history  struggle4progress   May-31-11 01:19 AM   #44 
     - Is that a royal "we," Your Google Majesty?  onager   Jun-01-11 08:34 PM   #113 
        - Heretic! The Emperor's codpiece is adorned with delicate gold leaves. n/t  laconicsax   Jun-01-11 09:37 PM   #122 
  - I would not claim that religious people, even ecclesiastical people...  Deep13   May-31-11 01:50 PM   #69 
     - "Serious scientific inquiry" has always been "the exception rather than the rule"  struggle4progress   May-31-11 03:16 PM   #73 
        - I actually had Bacon in mind.  Deep13   May-31-11 06:33 PM   #79 
           - You can ask youself what the Romans left to Europe: they had some engineering savvy  struggle4progress   May-31-11 11:36 PM   #86 
           - Perhaps you can explain why no such setbacks  okasha   Jun-02-11 10:13 PM   #155 
              - Actually they did but to a lesser extent ,scientific inquiry was not  Leontius   Jun-02-11 11:04 PM   #160 
                 - Yet the East managed to preserve  okasha   Jun-02-11 11:39 PM   #161 
  - "Now what could have possibly restrained scientific inquiry for a thousand years? "  rug   May-31-11 07:00 AM   #50 
  - "Unless you look outside Europe."  Deep13   May-31-11 02:43 PM   #70 
  - Well, that convinced me.  rug   May-31-11 07:38 PM   #80 
  - Well, thats certainly one way to say it.  cleanhippie   Jun-01-11 01:11 AM   #91 
  - Please cite your sources for cannibalism by Native Americans  okasha   Jun-02-11 10:19 PM   #156 
  - The fall of Rome had nothing to do with Christianity, Edward Gibbons was an idiot for thinking so.  Odin2005   Jun-03-11 12:28 AM   #168 
  - The little ice age?  laconicsax   May-31-11 03:04 PM   #71 
     - Oh it must have been the rosaries.  rug   May-31-11 07:47 PM   #82 
  - I'm an Atheist. but I'm sick of these stereptypes about the Middle Ages.  Odin2005   Jun-03-11 12:23 AM   #167 
  - Here's a series of lectures by David Bentley Hart  struggle4progress   May-30-11 02:41 PM   #18 
  - Thanks for the links.  rug   May-30-11 06:59 PM   #27 
  - Pavlov's dog, same gang, same bell.  Leontius   May-30-11 04:23 PM   #21 
  - Out here in the boonies, that free chapter looked good.  dimbear   May-30-11 08:20 PM   #28 
  - While he was busy taking no prisoners, ...  Deep13   May-31-11 08:38 AM   #58 
  - You could ask him.  rug   May-31-11 07:41 PM   #81 
  - I think you can probably gather his view from the videos I posted in #18  struggle4progress   Jun-01-11 12:46 AM   #90 
  - Book critiquing coffee wins tea grower's prize. nt  Deep13   May-31-11 01:43 PM   #67 
  - Book critiquing religion posted eight times in R/T.  rug   May-31-11 07:49 PM   #83 
     - Link?  cleanhippie   Jun-01-11 01:13 AM   #92 
     - And? nt  Deep13   Jun-01-11 12:35 PM   #99 
  - The sad thing is ignorance of history or at best a cartoon  Leontius   May-31-11 08:08 PM   #85 
  - And Bill Maher won the AAI's "Richard Dawkins Award". So?  iris27   Jun-01-11 02:20 PM   #106 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   Jun-01-11 04:05 PM   #109 
  - You can get a taste of the argument from the bit about the Library of Alexandria.  dimbear   Jun-01-11 09:02 PM   #114 
  - That was a neat trick in 48 BC.  rug   Jun-01-11 09:37 PM   #121 
  - The library was partially destroyed several times. I refer to the  dimbear   Jun-01-11 09:52 PM   #126 
  - The Mysterious Fate of the Great Library of Alexandria  struggle4progress   Jun-02-11 01:11 AM   #134 
  - The reign of Theodosius should be of critical interest to any believer.  dimbear   Jun-02-11 02:16 AM   #135 
     - Interestingly enough, both points have the same (apparent) exception ...  Nihil   Jun-02-11 09:50 AM   #137 
     - Of course, whenever religions become associated with state authority, political issues  struggle4progress   Jun-02-11 01:26 PM   #142 
        - That bit about the pretense of tithing to the old gods is a key.  dimbear   Jun-02-11 07:42 PM   #144 
  - The library was actually burned 4 times over 700 years.  Odin2005   Jun-03-11 12:32 AM   #171 
     - The point is that you're only probably right. But you're probably right.  dimbear   Jun-03-11 01:51 AM   #172 
  - Well, it sounds like a book that an Archbishop would like...  LeftishBrit   Jun-02-11 02:50 PM   #143 

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