| 108. Yep. But God cannot be proven empirically, nor disproven. We have already covered that. |
|
The best you or I can do is to accept proof as subjective. Existence to me is enough proof that a creator exists. But that of course is a subjective interpretation. Your view on the other hand is directly opposed to such a claim to the extent that what you see is all there is and that there is not a shread of evidence for any god.
|
| -IS RELIGION/THEOLOGY USELESS AT BEST? |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 10:58 AM |
#0 |
 -
sigh. |
Buzz Clik |
May-05-11 11:01 AM |
#1 |
  -
+1 |
aquart |
May-05-11 11:13 AM |
#2 |
| -
Your posts lose a lot of discussion when you just post the OP |
Angry Dragon |
May-05-11 11:15 AM |
#3 |
| -
(great minds? LOL!) |
JustFiveMoreMinutes |
May-05-11 11:16 AM |
#5 |
| -
Yes, there are many great minds on DU |
Angry Dragon |
May-05-11 11:24 AM |
#7 |
| -
I have had the privilege of engaging him personally on several occasions |
Starboard Tack |
May-05-11 04:18 PM |
#24 |
| -
If you have the chance to talk to him again |
Angry Dragon |
May-05-11 05:01 PM |
#28 |
| -
You may be arguing with |
skepticscott |
May-05-11 06:00 PM |
#32 |
| -
I agree with you |
Starboard Tack |
May-05-11 06:31 PM |
#33 |
| -
Alright, who had #33 in this month's Scotsman's pool? |
EvolveOrConvolve |
May-07-11 08:17 PM |
#102 |
| -
Responses? |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 07:53 PM |
#42 |
| -
No one forced you to start three threads. |
laconicsax |
May-05-11 09:20 PM |
#57 |
| -
What exactly about "do unto others, help those in need, humility etc."... |
trotsky |
May-06-11 06:12 AM |
#63 |
| -
I did not suggest that these virtues were exclusive to Christianity |
Starboard Tack |
May-06-11 11:18 AM |
#68 |
| -
You most certainly did suggest that. |
trotsky |
May-06-11 11:24 AM |
#69 |
| -
I didn't suggest they were exclusive to Christianity. |
Starboard Tack |
May-06-11 11:36 AM |
#70 |
| -
Your exact quote: |
trotsky |
May-06-11 12:31 PM |
#71 |
| -
These are principles that I learnt as a child |
Starboard Tack |
May-06-11 01:16 PM |
#72 |
| -
"not important who invented the wheel" |
Ninjaneer |
May-08-11 07:49 AM |
#117 |
| -
+1 |
Adsos Letter |
May-05-11 04:20 PM |
#25 |
| -
Right! |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 07:47 PM |
#41 |
| -
Science is ideology now? |
darkstar3 |
May-05-11 08:00 PM |
#45 |
| -
All too familiar |
skepticscott |
May-05-11 08:45 PM |
#56 |
| -
Science is not 'an ideologically based notion'... |
LeftishBrit |
Jul-04-11 11:01 AM |
#189 |
| -
You poisoned the well.. hope nobody drinks the water! |
JustFiveMoreMinutes |
May-05-11 11:15 AM |
#4 |
| -
say more |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 07:55 PM |
#43 |
| -
Useless for what? |
damntexdem |
May-05-11 11:19 AM |
#6 |
| -
legalize lonnie anderson's hair |
H2O Man |
May-05-11 11:39 AM |
#8 |
| -
I can only speak from personal experience. |
dgibby |
May-05-11 11:42 AM |
#9 |
| -
dogma |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 07:58 PM |
#44 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
May-05-11 12:17 PM |
#10 |
| -
First you take discrediting religion based on the evils caused by its followers off the table |
Ninjaneer |
May-05-11 12:29 PM |
#11 |
| -
right Off the table |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 08:01 PM |
#46 |
| -
False equivalence so blatant |
skepticscott |
May-05-11 08:28 PM |
#54 |
| -
I didn't think I had to spell it out. |
Ninjaneer |
May-06-11 02:50 AM |
#62 |
| -
Thanks for coming back and addressing the issue. eom |
Ninjaneer |
May-08-11 05:42 PM |
#120 |
| -
So what good has THEOLOGY brought to the table. |
Goblinmonger |
May-05-11 12:49 PM |
#12 |
| -
Maybe if you're nice enough, |
trotsky |
May-05-11 03:03 PM |
#21 |
| -
theology |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 08:04 PM |
#48 |
| -
Theology is just the study of |
Angry Dragon |
May-05-11 08:12 PM |
#50 |
| -
Can you honestly tell me that without theology |
Goblinmonger |
May-06-11 08:33 AM |
#64 |
| -
You don't see how |
skepticscott |
May-06-11 04:55 PM |
#89 |
| -
Please address the central issue |
edhopper |
May-05-11 12:57 PM |
#13 |
| -
I'm not sure how useful religion would be if god did exist. |
Deep13 |
May-05-11 12:59 PM |
#15 |
| -
LOL |
edhopper |
May-05-11 01:23 PM |
#16 |
| -
You certainly spend a lot of time discussing something that is |
humblebum |
May-05-11 02:21 PM |
#19 |
| -
We are trying to light one candle |
edhopper |
May-05-11 06:42 PM |
#35 |
| -
Do you realize that there are only 2 possibilities. Either |
humblebum |
May-05-11 07:08 PM |
#37 |
| -
LOL! n/t |
laconicsax |
May-05-11 07:14 PM |
#38 |
| -
LOL! nt |
humblebum |
May-05-11 07:21 PM |
#39 |
| -
I know there |
edhopper |
May-06-11 08:41 AM |
#65 |
| -
What Objective proof do you have that "proves" no supernatural |
humblebum |
May-06-11 02:33 PM |
#73 |
| -
The fact that every claim of allegedly supernatural phenomena affecting the natural world |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 02:50 PM |
#74 |
| -
You are not even using good logic. You can that you don't believe in any of these things certainly. |
humblebum |
May-06-11 03:24 PM |
#79 |
| -
Show me one, just one, supernatural claim that has been supported. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 03:26 PM |
#81 |
| -
Supported empirically, as you have established as the rules of the game or |
humblebum |
May-06-11 03:45 PM |
#83 |
| -
Weasel words. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 04:20 PM |
#85 |
| -
You're kinda hung up on that weasel words thing aren't you? |
humblebum |
May-06-11 07:30 PM |
#92 |
| -
Speaking of dodging, you've dodged every question I asked. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 10:10 PM |
#93 |
| -
Hahahaha! The only dodge was by YOU, just now! |
cleanhippie |
May-07-11 04:11 PM |
#100 |
| -
So can you prove anything you're saying? |
darkstar3 |
May-07-11 08:19 PM |
#104 |
| -
Yep. But God cannot be proven empirically, nor disproven. We have already covered that. |
humblebum |
May-07-11 08:56 PM |
#108 |
| -
You're using the argument from design, |
darkstar3 |
May-07-11 09:19 PM |
#110 |
| -
the only way that you can possibly give any credence to your argument |
humblebum |
May-08-11 03:49 AM |
#113 |
| -
Who's ignoring whom, here? |
darkstar3 |
May-08-11 03:57 AM |
#114 |
| -
You are still doing it. nt |
humblebum |
May-08-11 04:02 AM |
#115 |
| -
Aren't you out of piss yet? |
darkstar3 |
May-08-11 04:06 AM |
#116 |
| -
Witnesses? |
LAGC |
May-07-11 10:10 AM |
#96 |
| -
I can't believe you're still peddling that "other ways of knowing" stuff |
Ninjaneer |
May-08-11 07:54 AM |
#118 |
| -
Oh, it's been going on for years. |
laconicsax |
May-08-11 02:22 PM |
#119 |
| -
Hardly. Those "other ways of knowing" are now more regularly used |
humblebum |
May-09-11 06:49 AM |
#122 |
| -
"now more regularly used by more disciplines than your logical empiricism" |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 08:27 AM |
#123 |
| -
Well, you don't really have to dig too deep to find examples. |
humblebum |
May-09-11 01:01 PM |
#126 |
| -
I want examples of disciplines, |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 01:21 PM |
#127 |
| -
Well just pick one from the sciences, to business, to art - you name it. |
humblebum |
May-09-11 01:30 PM |
#128 |
| -
Engineering then. |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 01:38 PM |
#129 |
| -
Of course engineering. But let me ask you first if you even know |
humblebum |
May-09-11 02:43 PM |
#131 |
| -
Thanks for the condescension, |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 03:08 PM |
#133 |
| -
That's what I thought. But I wasn't trying to be condescending. |
humblebum |
May-09-11 04:15 PM |
#134 |
| -
You say sometimes they don't utilize empirical data or objective proof. |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 04:57 PM |
#135 |
| -
My "end game" as you call it is simply to show that religious |
humblebum |
May-09-11 07:30 PM |
#137 |
| -
I nominate this post for "comedic bullshit offering of the year." |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 07:50 PM |
#138 |
| -
I can only classify your rant as pure ignorance. Where you get |
humblebum |
May-09-11 08:22 PM |
#140 |
| -
Go ahead. |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 08:26 PM |
#141 |
| -
Um? Penn Jillette. "There is no god." |
humblebum |
May-09-11 08:39 PM |
#143 |
| -
Nice try, but where's their statement of "actual proof"? |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 08:47 PM |
#144 |
| -
He says " you can't prove a negative" so by definition |
humblebum |
May-09-11 09:01 PM |
#146 |
| -
So you have no quotes from anyone claiming "actual proof of non-existence of a deity"? |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 09:04 PM |
#147 |
| -
I just did as far as I'm concerned. Aman of his intelligence |
humblebum |
May-09-11 09:42 PM |
#149 |
| -
As far as you're concerned doesn't impress me one whit. |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 09:47 PM |
#150 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
May-09-11 09:52 PM |
#151 |
| -
Says the man who argues that fallacies aren't fallacies by using fallacies. |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 11:11 PM |
#155 |
| -
Says the man who makes false claims. |
humblebum |
May-09-11 11:17 PM |
#156 |
| -
Yes, you do. |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 11:25 PM |
#157 |
| -
And all this brought to you by the man who makes false claims. nt |
humblebum |
May-09-11 11:57 PM |
#158 |
| -
Um? |
humblebum |
May-10-11 03:51 AM |
#162 |
| -
Ooooh, compelling. Where's Penn's quote? |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 09:22 AM |
#166 |
| -
You are definitely the one moving the goal posts. you made the challenge, |
humblebum |
May-10-11 11:59 AM |
#169 |
| -
I asked you for a quote. |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 12:11 PM |
#172 |
| -
My reply is an answer to your assertion: |
humblebum |
May-10-11 01:31 PM |
#178 |
| -
If you say so, sparky. |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 01:42 PM |
#179 |
| -
And we're back to square one. |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 08:18 PM |
#139 |
| -
First of all you need to understand that I am not claiming objective proof, |
humblebum |
May-09-11 08:35 PM |
#142 |
| -
There is nothing for me to accept. |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 08:52 PM |
#145 |
| -
The tooth fairy doen't have such a lengthy written history and |
humblebum |
May-09-11 09:39 PM |
#148 |
| -
Ho hum, more fallacies. |
laconicsax |
May-09-11 09:57 PM |
#152 |
| -
Since you are on friendly terms with the tooth fairy, |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 10:33 PM |
#153 |
| -
I suppose... |
laconicsax |
May-10-11 12:13 AM |
#159 |
| -
It was, of course, a lie what you read about |
Ninjaneer |
May-10-11 09:01 AM |
#165 |
| -
It's only a fallacy if I predicate my argument on age or numbers, |
humblebum |
May-09-11 10:57 PM |
#154 |
| -
OYG! Are you seriously trying to argue that an ad numerum fallacy isn't really a fallacy? |
laconicsax |
May-10-11 12:27 AM |
#160 |
| -
By your reasoning then the testimonies of ten people who witness |
humblebum |
May-10-11 03:44 AM |
#161 |
| -
Your commitment to BS is awe inspiring, sir. |
Ninjaneer |
May-10-11 07:22 AM |
#164 |
| -
Now you know that's not "by [his] reasoning". |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 09:27 AM |
#167 |
| -
The fallacy charge in this case, of course, is by design, a straw man. |
humblebum |
May-10-11 11:44 AM |
#168 |
| -
Pointing out that someone is using a fallacy is not a straw man. |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 12:02 PM |
#170 |
| -
Except when it is not an actual fallacy, which I claim here. nt |
humblebum |
May-10-11 12:10 PM |
#171 |
| -
Your claim is worthless, as you have been clearly shown. You invoked a fallacy. Get over it. |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 12:12 PM |
#173 |
| -
No matter how many people believe something, that doesn't necessarily make it true or right. |
laconicsax |
May-10-11 01:08 PM |
#176 |
| -
If I had made the claim it provided "proof", then you would be correct. |
humblebum |
May-10-11 06:27 PM |
#180 |
| -
You used numbers (and tradition) to support the claim that your god exists. Both are fallacies. |
laconicsax |
May-11-11 01:08 AM |
#181 |
| -
I see you're now moving the goalposts |
skepticscott |
May-09-11 10:15 AM |
#124 |
| -
Nope. Been using it for a long time. It's only the "strong" atheists |
humblebum |
May-09-11 12:47 PM |
#125 |
| -
If you go back and look at your other threads |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 01:58 PM |
#130 |
| -
Um? post #122? nt |
humblebum |
May-09-11 02:45 PM |
#132 |
| -
You mean the post where you moved the goalposts? |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 06:55 PM |
#136 |
| -
And wow, it had really been a "long time" |
skepticscott |
May-10-11 05:24 AM |
#163 |
| -
The statement is valid with or without the word "probably". |
humblebum |
May-10-11 12:23 PM |
#174 |
| -
There is only one thing here having its simplicity clearly demonstrated time and again. |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 12:26 PM |
#175 |
| -
Definitely a non-answer. Another demonstration of simplicity and a straw man. nt |
humblebum |
May-10-11 01:24 PM |
#177 |
| -
Exactly! And until there IS some proof, the logical conclusion is that it does NOT exist. |
cleanhippie |
May-06-11 09:29 AM |
#66 |
| -
You really do not even know what you are talking about. |
humblebum |
May-06-11 02:51 PM |
#75 |
| -
Why not use the recognized names for those "enquiries" bum? |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 02:58 PM |
#76 |
| -
Those are the recognized names and are different epistemologies. |
humblebum |
May-06-11 03:11 PM |
#77 |
| -
You seem to know very little of |
edhopper |
May-06-11 03:22 PM |
#78 |
| -
Actually I have never said "God exists because I know he does". |
humblebum |
May-06-11 03:37 PM |
#82 |
| -
Disciplines |
edhopper |
May-06-11 04:30 PM |
#87 |
| -
In my best Walter Matthau voice I say |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 04:38 PM |
#88 |
| -
"you are merely confirming my points. " - i guess so, since "where you see contradiction..." |
cleanhippie |
May-07-11 04:08 PM |
#98 |
| -
Read the links. Your arguments are not "enquiries", and they have sucked for centuries. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 03:24 PM |
#80 |
| -
"they have sucked for centuries." Now that's intelligent debate. |
humblebum |
May-06-11 03:51 PM |
#84 |
| -
And they are mocked when used today, rightfully so. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 04:20 PM |
#86 |
| -
No actually they do not. Questions of being and purpose are asked often. |
humblebum |
May-06-11 07:28 PM |
#91 |
| -
This is my final word in this subthread. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 10:15 PM |
#94 |
| -
Your epistemology is very limited as is proven by its definition. |
humblebum |
May-07-11 10:00 AM |
#95 |
| -
Broken record. |
cleanhippie |
May-07-11 04:09 PM |
#99 |
| -
Anytime someone challenges the "wisdom" of atheism, you |
humblebum |
May-07-11 06:26 PM |
#101 |
| -
Not someone, just you. |
darkstar3 |
May-07-11 08:18 PM |
#103 |
| -
Well I'm at least glad to see that you admit you |
humblebum |
May-07-11 08:50 PM |
#106 |
| -
Can you read? Do you know what that little tag in the upper-left of every post is, |
darkstar3 |
May-07-11 08:53 PM |
#107 |
| -
Yep. And my answer is still the same. nt |
humblebum |
May-07-11 08:59 PM |
#109 |
| -
Oh, I see, "we all look the same to you." |
darkstar3 |
May-07-11 09:20 PM |
#111 |
| -
No, one-track, only you. |
cleanhippie |
May-08-11 01:48 AM |
#112 |
| -
I guess I was wrong. YOu actually have TWO broken records. |
cleanhippie |
May-07-11 04:06 PM |
#97 |
| -
If anyone needs to see the black and white world the religious live in |
EvolveOrConvolve |
May-07-11 08:21 PM |
#105 |
| -
Well enlighten me please. If there is an alternative answer other |
humblebum |
May-08-11 07:54 PM |
#121 |
| -
fruitless |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 08:08 PM |
#49 |
| -
Instead of trying to discuss the merits of the forum... |
Deep13 |
May-05-11 12:58 PM |
#14 |
| -
PEOPLE USE RELIGION/THEOLOGY ALL THE TIME!!!! |
Iggo |
May-05-11 01:33 PM |
#17 |
| -
THAT IS HOW CIVILIZED DISCOURSE HAPPENS!!! |
Ninjaneer |
May-05-11 01:40 PM |
#18 |
| -
I THINK I"M GOING TO VOMIT! |
cleanhippie |
May-05-11 02:29 PM |
#20 |
| -
Why am I not surprised, |
Starboard Tack |
May-05-11 03:35 PM |
#22 |
| -
It's a piece of literary genius in comparison to the OP. n/t. |
Ninjaneer |
May-05-11 05:18 PM |
#29 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
May-05-11 06:33 PM |
#34 |
| -
I see ignored chimed in. |
cleanhippie |
May-05-11 04:55 PM |
#27 |
| -
They became "Name removed" so it must have been really compelling. n/t |
laconicsax |
May-05-11 09:24 PM |
#58 |
| -
Maybe |
digonswine |
May-05-11 04:03 PM |
#23 |
| -
ethics |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 08:13 PM |
#51 |
| -
Even if we acknowledge that religion once did some good... |
LAGC |
May-06-11 01:36 AM |
#61 |
| -
If that's the best you have, you shouldn't have bothered |
skepticscott |
May-05-11 04:46 PM |
#26 |
| -
theology and action |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 08:15 PM |
#52 |
| -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
May-05-11 08:30 PM |
#55 |
| -
And see my response |
skepticscott |
May-06-11 04:56 PM |
#90 |
| -
SORRY, I DIDN'T CATCH THAT! CAN YOU SPEAK UP? |
laconicsax |
May-05-11 05:22 PM |
#30 |
| -
Organized religion |
frogmarch |
May-05-11 05:29 PM |
#31 |
| -
TMO: welcome to the lion's den! |
dimbear |
May-05-11 07:00 PM |
#36 |
| -
Well, most Christian apologists |
skepticscott |
May-05-11 07:24 PM |
#40 |
| -
Ethics and religion are mutually exclusive. |
darkstar3 |
May-05-11 08:01 PM |
#47 |
| -
Two things are mutually exclusive if they cannot be in the same place. |
dimbear |
May-06-11 01:30 AM |
#60 |
| -
Or if can exist completely and unmodified without the other. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 10:11 AM |
#67 |
| -
Thomas Paine |
Interzone |
May-05-11 08:21 PM |
#53 |
| -
They are unavoidable. |
rrneck |
May-06-11 01:22 AM |
#59 |
| -
Kick |
Boojatta |
Jun-30-11 10:26 PM |
#182 |
| -
LOL. |
Iggo |
Jul-01-11 11:07 AM |
#185 |
| -
Yes. Without a solid basis in fact... |
Deep13 |
Jun-30-11 11:02 PM |
#183 |
| -
this OP is useless, AT BEST |
deacon_sephiroth |
Jul-01-11 05:36 AM |
#184 |
| -
Even as an Atheist I say no |
Taverner |
Jul-01-11 02:17 PM |
#186 |
| -
Yes, when it keeps people in fear and ignorance. |
Manifestor_of_Light |
Jul-02-11 11:59 PM |
#187 |
| -
Well, I'm not sure this forum keeps anyone in fear. |
okasha |
Jul-03-11 08:48 AM |
#188 |
| -
I was talking about religion, NOT about this forum keeping people in fear. |
Manifestor_of_Light |
Jul-05-11 07:19 PM |
#191 |
| -
My view is, as stated in another post... |
LeftishBrit |
Jul-04-11 11:04 AM |
#190 |
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