| 24. I have had the privilege of engaging him personally on several occasions |
|
and we do not agree on everything. Not by a long shot. I would describe myself as agnostic with atheistic tendencies, yet I espouse most Christian principles like do unto others, help those in need, humility etc.. Beyond that, I do not believe that Jesus was a Messiah, the only Son of God. Nor do I believe that he died for our sins, was resurrected or any other nonsense associated with him. For me he was just a cool guy who rocked the boat, got himself killed for it and exploited centuries later by tyrants and loonies from Popes to Pat Robertson. However, I have known this poster for over five years and have the utmost respect for him. He is the antithesis of what most of us have come to associate with being "Christian". There is not a bigoted bone in his body, nor an ounce of arrogance. He is a theologian and scholar and a man who devotes much of his life to the betterment of mankind, not by preaching and talking, but by doing. I'm not trying to defend or rescue him from the onslaught he has been subjected to here, for he is more than capable of defending himself. But I would ask for a smidgen of patience and forbearance while he gets up to speed with how things work around here. He is in his eighties and still a very busy man. Computers, internet and DU are all very new.
|
| -IS RELIGION/THEOLOGY USELESS AT BEST? |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 10:58 AM |
#0 |
-
sigh. |
Buzz Clik |
May-05-11 11:01 AM |
#1 |
 -
+1 |
aquart |
May-05-11 11:13 AM |
#2 |
-
Your posts lose a lot of discussion when you just post the OP |
Angry Dragon |
May-05-11 11:15 AM |
#3 |
 -
(great minds? LOL!) |
JustFiveMoreMinutes |
May-05-11 11:16 AM |
#5 |
  -
Yes, there are many great minds on DU |
Angry Dragon |
May-05-11 11:24 AM |
#7 |
 -
I have had the privilege of engaging him personally on several occasions |
Starboard Tack |
May-05-11 04:18 PM |
#24 |
 -
If you have the chance to talk to him again |
Angry Dragon |
May-05-11 05:01 PM |
#28 |
  -
You may be arguing with |
skepticscott |
May-05-11 06:00 PM |
#32 |
  -
I agree with you |
Starboard Tack |
May-05-11 06:31 PM |
#33 |
   -
Alright, who had #33 in this month's Scotsman's pool? |
EvolveOrConvolve |
May-07-11 08:17 PM |
#102 |
  -
Responses? |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 07:53 PM |
#42 |
 -
No one forced you to start three threads. |
laconicsax |
May-05-11 09:20 PM |
#57 |
 -
What exactly about "do unto others, help those in need, humility etc."... |
trotsky |
May-06-11 06:12 AM |
#63 |
 -
I did not suggest that these virtues were exclusive to Christianity |
Starboard Tack |
May-06-11 11:18 AM |
#68 |
 -
You most certainly did suggest that. |
trotsky |
May-06-11 11:24 AM |
#69 |
  -
I didn't suggest they were exclusive to Christianity. |
Starboard Tack |
May-06-11 11:36 AM |
#70 |
 -
Your exact quote: |
trotsky |
May-06-11 12:31 PM |
#71 |
 -
These are principles that I learnt as a child |
Starboard Tack |
May-06-11 01:16 PM |
#72 |
 -
"not important who invented the wheel" |
Ninjaneer |
May-08-11 07:49 AM |
#117 |
 -
+1 |
Adsos Letter |
May-05-11 04:20 PM |
#25 |
 -
Right! |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 07:47 PM |
#41 |
-
Science is ideology now? |
darkstar3 |
May-05-11 08:00 PM |
#45 |
 -
All too familiar |
skepticscott |
May-05-11 08:45 PM |
#56 |
-
Science is not 'an ideologically based notion'... |
LeftishBrit |
Jul-04-11 11:01 AM |
#189 |
-
You poisoned the well.. hope nobody drinks the water! |
JustFiveMoreMinutes |
May-05-11 11:15 AM |
#4 |
 -
say more |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 07:55 PM |
#43 |
-
Useless for what? |
damntexdem |
May-05-11 11:19 AM |
#6 |
-
legalize lonnie anderson's hair |
H2O Man |
May-05-11 11:39 AM |
#8 |
-
I can only speak from personal experience. |
dgibby |
May-05-11 11:42 AM |
#9 |
 -
dogma |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 07:58 PM |
#44 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
May-05-11 12:17 PM |
#10 |
-
First you take discrediting religion based on the evils caused by its followers off the table |
Ninjaneer |
May-05-11 12:29 PM |
#11 |
 -
right Off the table |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 08:01 PM |
#46 |
-
False equivalence so blatant |
skepticscott |
May-05-11 08:28 PM |
#54 |
-
I didn't think I had to spell it out. |
Ninjaneer |
May-06-11 02:50 AM |
#62 |
-
Thanks for coming back and addressing the issue. eom |
Ninjaneer |
May-08-11 05:42 PM |
#120 |
-
So what good has THEOLOGY brought to the table. |
Goblinmonger |
May-05-11 12:49 PM |
#12 |
 -
Maybe if you're nice enough, |
trotsky |
May-05-11 03:03 PM |
#21 |
 -
theology |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 08:04 PM |
#48 |
-
Theology is just the study of |
Angry Dragon |
May-05-11 08:12 PM |
#50 |
-
Can you honestly tell me that without theology |
Goblinmonger |
May-06-11 08:33 AM |
#64 |
-
You don't see how |
skepticscott |
May-06-11 04:55 PM |
#89 |
-
Please address the central issue |
edhopper |
May-05-11 12:57 PM |
#13 |
 -
I'm not sure how useful religion would be if god did exist. |
Deep13 |
May-05-11 12:59 PM |
#15 |
  -
LOL |
edhopper |
May-05-11 01:23 PM |
#16 |
 -
You certainly spend a lot of time discussing something that is |
humblebum |
May-05-11 02:21 PM |
#19 |
-
We are trying to light one candle |
edhopper |
May-05-11 06:42 PM |
#35 |
 -
Do you realize that there are only 2 possibilities. Either |
humblebum |
May-05-11 07:08 PM |
#37 |
-
LOL! n/t |
laconicsax |
May-05-11 07:14 PM |
#38 |
 -
LOL! nt |
humblebum |
May-05-11 07:21 PM |
#39 |
-
I know there |
edhopper |
May-06-11 08:41 AM |
#65 |
 -
What Objective proof do you have that "proves" no supernatural |
humblebum |
May-06-11 02:33 PM |
#73 |
-
The fact that every claim of allegedly supernatural phenomena affecting the natural world |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 02:50 PM |
#74 |
-
You are not even using good logic. You can that you don't believe in any of these things certainly. |
humblebum |
May-06-11 03:24 PM |
#79 |
-
Show me one, just one, supernatural claim that has been supported. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 03:26 PM |
#81 |
-
Supported empirically, as you have established as the rules of the game or |
humblebum |
May-06-11 03:45 PM |
#83 |
-
Weasel words. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 04:20 PM |
#85 |
 -
You're kinda hung up on that weasel words thing aren't you? |
humblebum |
May-06-11 07:30 PM |
#92 |
-
Speaking of dodging, you've dodged every question I asked. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 10:10 PM |
#93 |
-
Hahahaha! The only dodge was by YOU, just now! |
cleanhippie |
May-07-11 04:11 PM |
#100 |
-
So can you prove anything you're saying? |
darkstar3 |
May-07-11 08:19 PM |
#104 |
-
Yep. But God cannot be proven empirically, nor disproven. We have already covered that. |
humblebum |
May-07-11 08:56 PM |
#108 |
-
You're using the argument from design, |
darkstar3 |
May-07-11 09:19 PM |
#110 |
-
the only way that you can possibly give any credence to your argument |
humblebum |
May-08-11 03:49 AM |
#113 |
-
Who's ignoring whom, here? |
darkstar3 |
May-08-11 03:57 AM |
#114 |
-
You are still doing it. nt |
humblebum |
May-08-11 04:02 AM |
#115 |
-
Aren't you out of piss yet? |
darkstar3 |
May-08-11 04:06 AM |
#116 |
-
Witnesses? |
LAGC |
May-07-11 10:10 AM |
#96 |
-
I can't believe you're still peddling that "other ways of knowing" stuff |
Ninjaneer |
May-08-11 07:54 AM |
#118 |
-
Oh, it's been going on for years. |
laconicsax |
May-08-11 02:22 PM |
#119 |
-
Hardly. Those "other ways of knowing" are now more regularly used |
humblebum |
May-09-11 06:49 AM |
#122 |
-
"now more regularly used by more disciplines than your logical empiricism" |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 08:27 AM |
#123 |
 -
Well, you don't really have to dig too deep to find examples. |
humblebum |
May-09-11 01:01 PM |
#126 |
-
I want examples of disciplines, |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 01:21 PM |
#127 |
-
Well just pick one from the sciences, to business, to art - you name it. |
humblebum |
May-09-11 01:30 PM |
#128 |
-
Engineering then. |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 01:38 PM |
#129 |
-
Of course engineering. But let me ask you first if you even know |
humblebum |
May-09-11 02:43 PM |
#131 |
-
Thanks for the condescension, |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 03:08 PM |
#133 |
-
That's what I thought. But I wasn't trying to be condescending. |
humblebum |
May-09-11 04:15 PM |
#134 |
-
You say sometimes they don't utilize empirical data or objective proof. |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 04:57 PM |
#135 |
-
My "end game" as you call it is simply to show that religious |
humblebum |
May-09-11 07:30 PM |
#137 |
-
I nominate this post for "comedic bullshit offering of the year." |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 07:50 PM |
#138 |
-
I can only classify your rant as pure ignorance. Where you get |
humblebum |
May-09-11 08:22 PM |
#140 |
-
Go ahead. |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 08:26 PM |
#141 |
-
Um? Penn Jillette. "There is no god." |
humblebum |
May-09-11 08:39 PM |
#143 |
-
Nice try, but where's their statement of "actual proof"? |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 08:47 PM |
#144 |
-
He says " you can't prove a negative" so by definition |
humblebum |
May-09-11 09:01 PM |
#146 |
-
So you have no quotes from anyone claiming "actual proof of non-existence of a deity"? |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 09:04 PM |
#147 |
-
I just did as far as I'm concerned. Aman of his intelligence |
humblebum |
May-09-11 09:42 PM |
#149 |
-
As far as you're concerned doesn't impress me one whit. |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 09:47 PM |
#150 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
May-09-11 09:52 PM |
#151 |
-
Says the man who argues that fallacies aren't fallacies by using fallacies. |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 11:11 PM |
#155 |
-
Says the man who makes false claims. |
humblebum |
May-09-11 11:17 PM |
#156 |
-
Yes, you do. |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 11:25 PM |
#157 |
-
And all this brought to you by the man who makes false claims. nt |
humblebum |
May-09-11 11:57 PM |
#158 |
-
Um? |
humblebum |
May-10-11 03:51 AM |
#162 |
-
Ooooh, compelling. Where's Penn's quote? |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 09:22 AM |
#166 |
-
You are definitely the one moving the goal posts. you made the challenge, |
humblebum |
May-10-11 11:59 AM |
#169 |
-
I asked you for a quote. |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 12:11 PM |
#172 |
-
My reply is an answer to your assertion: |
humblebum |
May-10-11 01:31 PM |
#178 |
-
If you say so, sparky. |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 01:42 PM |
#179 |
-
And we're back to square one. |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 08:18 PM |
#139 |
-
First of all you need to understand that I am not claiming objective proof, |
humblebum |
May-09-11 08:35 PM |
#142 |
-
There is nothing for me to accept. |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 08:52 PM |
#145 |
-
The tooth fairy doen't have such a lengthy written history and |
humblebum |
May-09-11 09:39 PM |
#148 |
-
Ho hum, more fallacies. |
laconicsax |
May-09-11 09:57 PM |
#152 |
-
Since you are on friendly terms with the tooth fairy, |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 10:33 PM |
#153 |
-
I suppose... |
laconicsax |
May-10-11 12:13 AM |
#159 |
-
It was, of course, a lie what you read about |
Ninjaneer |
May-10-11 09:01 AM |
#165 |
-
It's only a fallacy if I predicate my argument on age or numbers, |
humblebum |
May-09-11 10:57 PM |
#154 |
-
OYG! Are you seriously trying to argue that an ad numerum fallacy isn't really a fallacy? |
laconicsax |
May-10-11 12:27 AM |
#160 |
-
By your reasoning then the testimonies of ten people who witness |
humblebum |
May-10-11 03:44 AM |
#161 |
-
Your commitment to BS is awe inspiring, sir. |
Ninjaneer |
May-10-11 07:22 AM |
#164 |
-
Now you know that's not "by [his] reasoning". |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 09:27 AM |
#167 |
-
The fallacy charge in this case, of course, is by design, a straw man. |
humblebum |
May-10-11 11:44 AM |
#168 |
-
Pointing out that someone is using a fallacy is not a straw man. |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 12:02 PM |
#170 |
-
Except when it is not an actual fallacy, which I claim here. nt |
humblebum |
May-10-11 12:10 PM |
#171 |
-
Your claim is worthless, as you have been clearly shown. You invoked a fallacy. Get over it. |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 12:12 PM |
#173 |
-
No matter how many people believe something, that doesn't necessarily make it true or right. |
laconicsax |
May-10-11 01:08 PM |
#176 |
-
If I had made the claim it provided "proof", then you would be correct. |
humblebum |
May-10-11 06:27 PM |
#180 |
-
You used numbers (and tradition) to support the claim that your god exists. Both are fallacies. |
laconicsax |
May-11-11 01:08 AM |
#181 |
-
I see you're now moving the goalposts |
skepticscott |
May-09-11 10:15 AM |
#124 |
-
Nope. Been using it for a long time. It's only the "strong" atheists |
humblebum |
May-09-11 12:47 PM |
#125 |
-
If you go back and look at your other threads |
Ninjaneer |
May-09-11 01:58 PM |
#130 |
-
Um? post #122? nt |
humblebum |
May-09-11 02:45 PM |
#132 |
-
You mean the post where you moved the goalposts? |
darkstar3 |
May-09-11 06:55 PM |
#136 |
-
And wow, it had really been a "long time" |
skepticscott |
May-10-11 05:24 AM |
#163 |
-
The statement is valid with or without the word "probably". |
humblebum |
May-10-11 12:23 PM |
#174 |
-
There is only one thing here having its simplicity clearly demonstrated time and again. |
darkstar3 |
May-10-11 12:26 PM |
#175 |
-
Definitely a non-answer. Another demonstration of simplicity and a straw man. nt |
humblebum |
May-10-11 01:24 PM |
#177 |
-
Exactly! And until there IS some proof, the logical conclusion is that it does NOT exist. |
cleanhippie |
May-06-11 09:29 AM |
#66 |
 -
You really do not even know what you are talking about. |
humblebum |
May-06-11 02:51 PM |
#75 |
-
Why not use the recognized names for those "enquiries" bum? |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 02:58 PM |
#76 |
 -
Those are the recognized names and are different epistemologies. |
humblebum |
May-06-11 03:11 PM |
#77 |
-
You seem to know very little of |
edhopper |
May-06-11 03:22 PM |
#78 |
 -
Actually I have never said "God exists because I know he does". |
humblebum |
May-06-11 03:37 PM |
#82 |
-
Disciplines |
edhopper |
May-06-11 04:30 PM |
#87 |
 -
In my best Walter Matthau voice I say |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 04:38 PM |
#88 |
-
"you are merely confirming my points. " - i guess so, since "where you see contradiction..." |
cleanhippie |
May-07-11 04:08 PM |
#98 |
-
Read the links. Your arguments are not "enquiries", and they have sucked for centuries. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 03:24 PM |
#80 |
-
"they have sucked for centuries." Now that's intelligent debate. |
humblebum |
May-06-11 03:51 PM |
#84 |
-
And they are mocked when used today, rightfully so. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 04:20 PM |
#86 |
-
No actually they do not. Questions of being and purpose are asked often. |
humblebum |
May-06-11 07:28 PM |
#91 |
-
This is my final word in this subthread. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 10:15 PM |
#94 |
-
Your epistemology is very limited as is proven by its definition. |
humblebum |
May-07-11 10:00 AM |
#95 |
-
Broken record. |
cleanhippie |
May-07-11 04:09 PM |
#99 |
-
Anytime someone challenges the "wisdom" of atheism, you |
humblebum |
May-07-11 06:26 PM |
#101 |
-
Not someone, just you. |
darkstar3 |
May-07-11 08:18 PM |
#103 |
 -
Well I'm at least glad to see that you admit you |
humblebum |
May-07-11 08:50 PM |
#106 |
-
Can you read? Do you know what that little tag in the upper-left of every post is, |
darkstar3 |
May-07-11 08:53 PM |
#107 |
-
Yep. And my answer is still the same. nt |
humblebum |
May-07-11 08:59 PM |
#109 |
-
Oh, I see, "we all look the same to you." |
darkstar3 |
May-07-11 09:20 PM |
#111 |
-
No, one-track, only you. |
cleanhippie |
May-08-11 01:48 AM |
#112 |
-
I guess I was wrong. YOu actually have TWO broken records. |
cleanhippie |
May-07-11 04:06 PM |
#97 |
-
If anyone needs to see the black and white world the religious live in |
EvolveOrConvolve |
May-07-11 08:21 PM |
#105 |
-
Well enlighten me please. If there is an alternative answer other |
humblebum |
May-08-11 07:54 PM |
#121 |
-
fruitless |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 08:08 PM |
#49 |
-
Instead of trying to discuss the merits of the forum... |
Deep13 |
May-05-11 12:58 PM |
#14 |
-
PEOPLE USE RELIGION/THEOLOGY ALL THE TIME!!!! |
Iggo |
May-05-11 01:33 PM |
#17 |
 -
THAT IS HOW CIVILIZED DISCOURSE HAPPENS!!! |
Ninjaneer |
May-05-11 01:40 PM |
#18 |
-
I THINK I"M GOING TO VOMIT! |
cleanhippie |
May-05-11 02:29 PM |
#20 |
 -
Why am I not surprised, |
Starboard Tack |
May-05-11 03:35 PM |
#22 |
  -
It's a piece of literary genius in comparison to the OP. n/t. |
Ninjaneer |
May-05-11 05:18 PM |
#29 |
 -
Deleted message |
Name removed |
May-05-11 06:33 PM |
#34 |
 -
I see ignored chimed in. |
cleanhippie |
May-05-11 04:55 PM |
#27 |
-
They became "Name removed" so it must have been really compelling. n/t |
laconicsax |
May-05-11 09:24 PM |
#58 |
-
Maybe |
digonswine |
May-05-11 04:03 PM |
#23 |
 -
ethics |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 08:13 PM |
#51 |
-
Even if we acknowledge that religion once did some good... |
LAGC |
May-06-11 01:36 AM |
#61 |
-
If that's the best you have, you shouldn't have bothered |
skepticscott |
May-05-11 04:46 PM |
#26 |
 -
theology and action |
Thats my opinion |
May-05-11 08:15 PM |
#52 |
-
Deleted message |
Name removed |
May-05-11 08:30 PM |
#55 |
-
And see my response |
skepticscott |
May-06-11 04:56 PM |
#90 |
-
SORRY, I DIDN'T CATCH THAT! CAN YOU SPEAK UP? |
laconicsax |
May-05-11 05:22 PM |
#30 |
-
Organized religion |
frogmarch |
May-05-11 05:29 PM |
#31 |
-
TMO: welcome to the lion's den! |
dimbear |
May-05-11 07:00 PM |
#36 |
 -
Well, most Christian apologists |
skepticscott |
May-05-11 07:24 PM |
#40 |
-
Ethics and religion are mutually exclusive. |
darkstar3 |
May-05-11 08:01 PM |
#47 |
 -
Two things are mutually exclusive if they cannot be in the same place. |
dimbear |
May-06-11 01:30 AM |
#60 |
-
Or if can exist completely and unmodified without the other. |
darkstar3 |
May-06-11 10:11 AM |
#67 |
-
Thomas Paine |
Interzone |
May-05-11 08:21 PM |
#53 |
-
They are unavoidable. |
rrneck |
May-06-11 01:22 AM |
#59 |
-
Kick |
Boojatta |
Jun-30-11 10:26 PM |
#182 |
 -
LOL. |
Iggo |
Jul-01-11 11:07 AM |
#185 |
-
Yes. Without a solid basis in fact... |
Deep13 |
Jun-30-11 11:02 PM |
#183 |
-
this OP is useless, AT BEST |
deacon_sephiroth |
Jul-01-11 05:36 AM |
#184 |
-
Even as an Atheist I say no |
Taverner |
Jul-01-11 02:17 PM |
#186 |
-
Yes, when it keeps people in fear and ignorance. |
Manifestor_of_Light |
Jul-02-11 11:59 PM |
#187 |
 -
Well, I'm not sure this forum keeps anyone in fear. |
okasha |
Jul-03-11 08:48 AM |
#188 |
-
I was talking about religion, NOT about this forum keeping people in fear. |
Manifestor_of_Light |
Jul-05-11 07:19 PM |
#191 |
-
My view is, as stated in another post... |
LeftishBrit |
Jul-04-11 11:04 AM |
#190 |