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Reply #2: I agree with what you say. Dawkins, of course, denies this. [View All]

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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-04-11 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I agree with what you say. Dawkins, of course, denies this.
Edited on Mon Apr-04-11 12:44 PM by Jim__
Dawkins claims that religion is just a rider on another trait that aids in survival. But he has no evidence to support this claim.
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  -Religions as memes. sudopod  Apr-04-11 12:21 PM   #0 
  - This is the inconvenient truth for Richard Dawkins.  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-04-11 12:38 PM   #1 
  - I agree with what you say. Dawkins, of course, denies this.  Jim__   Apr-04-11 12:43 PM   #2 
  - The thing is that memes aren't selected based on whether or not  sudopod   Apr-04-11 12:46 PM   #3 
  - But you can't ignore the obvious correlation between individual and gene.  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-04-11 01:11 PM   #7 
  - I don't know about that.  sudopod   Apr-04-11 01:25 PM   #11 
  - Ah, but there is the deepest most interesting part, sudopod!!!!  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-04-11 01:43 PM   #15 
     - I think your link went awry, it goes to a discussion of income vs. intelligence  sudopod   Apr-04-11 01:50 PM   #16 
        - Yes, the truth lies outside organized religion, and all other human endeavor.  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-04-11 02:12 PM   #18 
           - Fair enough! and Likewise! :) nt  sudopod   Apr-04-11 02:17 PM   #19 
  - Tell that to sufferers of sickle-cell anemia.  darkstar3   Apr-04-11 03:26 PM   #26 
     - Ah, now there's a smart post.  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-05-11 11:02 PM   #46 
        - Hmm...I don't know about that...  sudopod   Apr-05-11 11:09 PM   #47 
        - But would you? Can't you see we can't predict the effects of our actions?  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-05-11 11:34 PM   #50 
           - What you're talking about is the law of unintended consequences,  darkstar3   Apr-05-11 11:36 PM   #51 
           - We can't halt all progress due to fear, can we?  sudopod   Apr-05-11 11:52 PM   #52 
           - All I question in your statement is this:  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-06-11 12:16 AM   #59 
              - This is very Matrix-ish, heh.  sudopod   Apr-06-11 12:35 AM   #60 
                 - Yes, why are we ADDICTED to Truth?  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-06-11 12:47 AM   #65 
           - It should also be noted that similiar arguments were once put forward against self-governance.  sudopod   Apr-05-11 11:58 PM   #53 
              - The difference there was that there was a positive alternative that achieved the same goals.  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-06-11 12:05 AM   #55 
                 - We're working on it. ;)  sudopod   Apr-06-11 12:06 AM   #56 
                 - Oh right on!  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-06-11 12:42 AM   #62 
                    - Have a good one! nt  sudopod   Apr-06-11 12:43 AM   #63 
                 - You've never heard of secular humanism?  darkstar3   Apr-06-11 12:07 AM   #57 
                    - It doesn't compare to a religion at this point, it lacks fire.  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-06-11 12:45 AM   #64 
                       - That "fire" as you define it is one of the MAJOR problems of organized religions.  darkstar3   Apr-06-11 01:54 PM   #67 
        - I think you don't understand the analogy.  darkstar3   Apr-05-11 11:22 PM   #48 
           - humility.  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-06-11 12:01 AM   #54 
              - The thing is, I didn't say it.  darkstar3   Apr-06-11 12:14 AM   #58 
                 - Ooooh, this too!  sudopod   Apr-06-11 12:36 AM   #61 
  - "Universal features of a species demand a Darwinian solution." - Richard Dawkins.  Jim__   Apr-04-11 01:16 PM   #10 
     - I have my handy copy of "The God Delusion" right here.  sudopod   Apr-04-11 01:36 PM   #13 
     - Mine is the hard copy Houghton Miflin - 2006.  Jim__   Apr-04-11 02:32 PM   #22 
        - He then directly discusses evidence for the next 15 pages.  sudopod   Apr-04-11 02:54 PM   #24 
        - Evidence? No he makes conjectures.  Jim__   Apr-04-11 03:38 PM   #27 
           - Whether religious behavior is advantageous isn't really the point, though...  sudopod   Apr-04-11 04:16 PM   #28 
           - Read #26.  darkstar3   Apr-04-11 05:48 PM   #32 
              - The assertion about the universality of religion is based on Dawkins statement.  Jim__   Apr-05-11 06:50 PM   #41 
                 - I was simplifying for the audience.  darkstar3   Apr-05-11 07:04 PM   #42 
        - doppelganger. nt  sudopod   Apr-04-11 02:54 PM   #25 
     - whoops, wrong post! nt  sudopod   Apr-04-11 02:53 PM   #23 
  - Same could be said about racism and other quite harmful memes.  trotsky   Apr-04-11 12:53 PM   #4 
  - No, they don't help the organisms, they help themselves.  sudopod   Apr-04-11 12:58 PM   #5 
  - Example: the shakers  inademv   Apr-04-11 01:11 PM   #8 
     - Exactly!  sudopod   Apr-04-11 01:57 PM   #17 
        - I already put my brain into an Adrian Barbeaubot  inademv   Apr-04-11 02:22 PM   #20 
  - Descriptive scientific language and prescriptive political thinking diverse wildly..  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-04-11 01:33 PM   #12 
     - If you're going to call him racist and a fascist, then [citation needed]  sudopod   Apr-04-11 01:38 PM   #14 
     - Thank you for proving my point.  trotsky   Apr-05-11 06:10 AM   #35 
        - Who is observing the Roman pagan holidays?  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-05-11 10:38 PM   #43 
           - I must admit that I'm not sure where your argument leads.  sudopod   Apr-05-11 10:52 PM   #44 
           - That is hilarious.  darkstar3   Apr-05-11 10:57 PM   #45 
           - That's a lovely answer, however it doesn't address my question.  trotsky   Apr-06-11 06:28 AM   #66 
  - "It wouldn't be here if it didn't help organisms"  inademv   Apr-04-11 01:09 PM   #6 
  - And they can spread in populations even then.  sudopod   Apr-04-11 01:16 PM   #9 
     - sickle cell and malaria, I know  inademv   Apr-04-11 02:25 PM   #21 
  - It is possible, but there are other possibilities, such as a parasitic relationship. nt  thereismore   Apr-04-11 05:43 PM   #31 
  - Infectious diseases evolve but they seldom help their host organisms  Silent3   Apr-04-11 09:22 PM   #34 
  - Are these the things that come out of volcanoes and inhabit people?  jberryhill   Apr-04-11 05:24 PM   #29 
  - AFAIK, they usually involve putting things in volcanoes. :D nt  sudopod   Apr-04-11 05:29 PM   #30 
  - Memetics: The Modern Science of Dental Health by L. Ron Dawkins  bananas   Apr-05-11 03:30 PM   #38 
     - you seem...upset. :3  sudopod   Apr-05-11 05:53 PM   #40 
  - Element number 4 is the real key.  dimbear   Apr-04-11 08:01 PM   #33 
  - Memetics is pseudoscience  bananas   Apr-05-11 10:52 AM   #36 
     - I think someone had a chip on their shoulder when they added that to the wiki.  sudopod   Apr-05-11 11:54 AM   #37 
     - And Wikipedia is accurate.*  darkstar3   Apr-05-11 04:24 PM   #39 
     - I know good science when I see it.  napoleon_in_rags   Apr-05-11 11:27 PM   #49 

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