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Reply #22: I do not believe rules re: modest dress are petty [View All]

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AlecBGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-20-11 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. I do not believe rules re: modest dress are petty
Now I am going to put on my asbestos flame-suit for this, but I think people SHOULD dress modestly. If I have children, I will not allow them to dress in ways that reveal too much. Why? Because when kids are teenagers they tend to focus on a few things, chief among those are fitting in and exploring their sexuality. I refuse to let my child dress in such a way that they begin to see their self-worth in terms of their appearance and their ability to attract others sexually. That mindset is destructive and I have seen what it can lead to. They may hate me for it at the time, but so be it. I realize this is an EXTREMELY slippery slope (making decisions for others in their supposed best-interest) but what else can parents do? Set NO boundaries and let children determine EVERY limit for themself? Most would agree of course not, kids need rules. So the question becomes, where do we (as parents) draw the line? Where do we make decisions, and what do we allow the kids to choose for themselves? At what age? To what extent? I have no kids but this question occupies my mind a great deal. I am trying my best to find that fine line between creating boundaries and allowing kids to explore on their own. Thongs on a middle-schooler are one of those things I will decide, regardless of how my kid feels.

Back to religion. I think pastors face the same dilemma. Where do they draw the line? As spiritual leaders accountable to God, how much is non-negotiable? Each pastor, like each parent, is different. Some are on the obedience-at-all-costs side of the spectrum and others are at the do-what-you-will end. Most are somewhere in the middle.

Ok, ramble off.
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  -WaPo - "Religion: The Ultimate Tyranny" by Paula Kirby onager  Feb-19-11 02:23 PM   #0 
  - Amen... (nt)  NeoGreen   Feb-19-11 04:03 PM   #1 
  - Fantastic quote.  trotsky   Feb-20-11 10:44 AM   #2 
  - +1  cleanhippie   Feb-20-11 11:02 AM   #3 
  - I disagree so much its hard to know where to begin  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 12:57 PM   #11 
  - And so you admit that your religion serves as liberator from fear?  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 01:17 PM   #16 
  - yes, absolutely  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 01:20 PM   #18 
  - It's funny that you say you disagree "so much"...  trotsky   Feb-20-11 02:06 PM   #24 
  - along a similar theme  pokerfan   Feb-20-11 01:16 PM   #15 
  - Let My People Go - Paul Robeson  struggle4progress   Feb-20-11 12:40 PM   #4 
  - Marian Anderson: Go Down, Moses  struggle4progress   Feb-20-11 12:41 PM   #5 
  - Christianity  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 12:48 PM   #6 
  - Not so much.  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 12:56 PM   #9 
  - Did you get the feeling that your pastor did it as the OP describes?  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 01:05 PM   #13 
  - 2 things:  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 01:14 PM   #14 
     - I do not believe rules re: modest dress are petty  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 01:36 PM   #22 
        - Unfortunately, the rules ARE petty, and one-sided,  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 08:57 PM   #34 
           - we disagree on the 'petty-ness'  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 09:04 PM   #37 
              - We're gonna get this thread moved to GD  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 09:13 PM   #38 
  - perhaps  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 02:20 PM   #28 
  - And you can thank secularism for that.  trotsky   Feb-20-11 02:08 PM   #25 
     - I can thank many for it, including secularists  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 02:23 PM   #29 
  - Louis Armstrong-Go Down Moses  struggle4progress   Feb-20-11 12:48 PM   #7 
  - History's Most Tyrannical Man  Bad Thoughts   Feb-20-11 12:51 PM   #8 
  - Your supposed counter-example  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 12:57 PM   #10 
  - "Religion is the antithesis of freedom"! eom.  Bad Thoughts   Feb-20-11 01:00 PM   #12 
  - One can fight for civil liberties in government while still being a slave to religion. nt  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 01:18 PM   #17 
     - King delivered African-Americans back into slavery?  Bad Thoughts   Feb-20-11 01:29 PM   #21 
        - Specious,  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 09:00 PM   #35 
           - I need not answer your question  Bad Thoughts   Feb-20-11 10:13 PM   #44 
              - People have advocated for it.  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 10:20 PM   #47 
  - You cannot divorce King from the AA Church  Bad Thoughts   Feb-20-11 01:21 PM   #19 
     - See #17.  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 01:29 PM   #20 
  - Do you recall, perhaps, what institution...  trotsky   Feb-20-11 02:18 PM   #27 
  - The fist?  Bad Thoughts   Feb-20-11 02:45 PM   #30 
     - Then religion was just a follower for MLK as well.  trotsky   Feb-20-11 04:55 PM   #31 
     - No double standard  Bad Thoughts   Feb-20-11 05:10 PM   # 
     - No, of course not.  trotsky   Feb-20-11 09:19 PM   #39 
        - You must understand  Bad Thoughts   Feb-20-11 10:14 PM   #46 
           - Maybe if my handle had anything to do with the historical Trotsky.  trotsky   Feb-21-11 05:45 AM   #50 
     - wrong  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 07:56 PM   #33 
        - Does the hammer use the hand?  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 09:02 PM   #36 
        - Not an accurate comparison  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 09:44 PM   #41 
           - The psychological benefits you derive  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 10:05 PM   #42 
           - yes, you are right, I misspoke  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 10:14 PM   #45 
              - The foundation of a good relationship is good communication.  darkstar3   Feb-20-11 10:22 PM   #48 
           - If that is the case, then believers are getting the short end of that stick.  cleanhippie   Feb-21-11 09:23 AM   #53 
           - How can it be a "two-way street" when your god...  trotsky   Feb-22-11 06:40 AM   #56 
              - is that rhetorical or would you truly like to hear my response?  AlecBGreen   Feb-22-11 03:13 PM   #57 
                 - Oh I already know how most Christians evade that question.  trotsky   Feb-22-11 06:40 PM   #58 
                    - now you've made me curious  AlecBGreen   Feb-22-11 07:36 PM   #59 
                       - Naw, how about you give me your answer first.  trotsky   Feb-22-11 08:47 PM   #70 
                          - I know the "creator-created" thing is just wrong, and I don't like it,  humblebum   Feb-23-11 09:20 AM   #83 
                          - This charicature brought to you by "straws-R-us".  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 09:23 AM   #84 
                          - I think you are conflating "strawsRus" with barb.  humblebum   Feb-23-11 11:03 AM   #86 
                          - If that bore even a passing resemblance to my point, I'd be devastated.  trotsky   Feb-23-11 01:30 PM   #88 
                             - Sorry to see you are so devastated. nt  humblebum   Feb-23-11 03:01 PM   #92 
                          - ok you asked for it :)  AlecBGreen   Feb-23-11 06:50 PM   #114 
                             - There is a distinction between a "two-way" relationship...  trotsky   Feb-24-11 06:27 AM   #141 
        - You say "wrong" but you admit you never met him.  trotsky   Feb-20-11 09:20 PM   #40 
           - this is my point:  AlecBGreen   Feb-20-11 10:08 PM   #43 
              - "No, I do not believe he would have been."  trotsky   Feb-21-11 05:45 AM   #49 
                 - wow Trotsky  AlecBGreen   Feb-21-11 07:45 AM   #51 
                    - No, what I find disgusting...  trotsky   Feb-21-11 08:12 AM   #52 
                       - Never let it be said that atheists can be bigots.  humblebum   Feb-23-11 09:23 AM   #85 
                          - Please, for the love of Satan, take a logic class.  trotsky   Feb-23-11 01:56 PM   #89 
     - Religion was "just a follower?"  onager   Feb-21-11 09:56 PM   #54 
        - What an anachronism!  Bad Thoughts   Feb-21-11 11:12 PM   #55 
           - This makes no sense...  onager   Feb-23-11 09:08 PM   #135 
              - You've changed your position  Bad Thoughts   Feb-23-11 09:39 PM   #139 
  - Fun quiz for the King-slingers...  onager   Feb-23-11 08:58 PM   #132 
  - The rantings of a jilted spouse....  Sal316   Feb-20-11 01:43 PM   #23 
  - Surely you realize, Sal, that this allegedly "cartoon-like" theology...  trotsky   Feb-20-11 02:16 PM   #26 
     - Sorry to break this to you.  rug   Feb-22-11 07:39 PM   #60 
        - One billion Catholics believe in servitude on pain of Hell.  darkstar3   Feb-22-11 07:47 PM   #61 
        - What Chick cartoon are you reading?  rug   Feb-22-11 07:49 PM   #62 
           - The Catechism, as we've argued over before.  darkstar3   Feb-22-11 07:51 PM   #63 
              - "Belief in servitude on pain of hell" is in the Catechism?  rug   Feb-22-11 07:54 PM   #64 
                 - Oh, yes, play the direct quote game,  darkstar3   Feb-22-11 07:57 PM   #65 
                    - It was unfair of me to quote you.  rug   Feb-22-11 08:08 PM   #66 
                       - Oh! Whatever shall I do against such cow's-tongue wit?  darkstar3   Feb-22-11 08:18 PM   #67 
                          - Whaever you usually do with a cow's tongue.  rug   Feb-22-11 08:28 PM   #68 
        - Oh, is Sal a Catholic?  trotsky   Feb-22-11 08:43 PM   #69 
           - Don't know, but your cartoon theology isn't.  rug   Feb-22-11 08:51 PM   #71 
              - Please check my edit - more questions for you! Thanks ruggy! n/t  trotsky   Feb-22-11 08:52 PM   #72 
                 - Answers!  rug   Feb-22-11 09:14 PM   #73 
                    - I get to choose on all of those!  trotsky   Feb-23-11 06:11 AM   #74 
                    - Do you actually believe that?  rug   Feb-23-11 06:31 AM   #75 
                       - So now you're denying there is an official church position on all those items?  trotsky   Feb-23-11 06:35 AM   #76 
                          - An official position is hardly a "dictate" instilling consternation at risking the Pope's disfavor.  rug   Feb-23-11 06:47 AM   #77 
                             - Bwah ha ha ha.  trotsky   Feb-23-11 06:54 AM   #78 
                                - Sure, it does, Pogo.  rug   Feb-23-11 07:03 AM   #79 
                                   - Well, now, if you're refusing to see the cartoonish nature of the theology,  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 07:27 AM   #81 
                                   - That has more to do with power than theology.  rug   Feb-23-11 02:42 PM   #90 
                                      - In the Catholic Church, they are one and the same,  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 03:03 PM   #93 
                                         - If you believe that you understand neither.  rug   Feb-23-11 04:58 PM   #94 
                                            - If you think the Catholic hierarchy doesn't use theology to exert power, you're hopeless.  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 06:40 PM   #112 
                                               - Neverttheless, they remain different things.  rug   Feb-23-11 08:12 PM   #124 
                                               - There are none so blind...  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 08:28 PM   #127 
                                               - those who cannot see differences.  rug   Feb-23-11 08:40 PM   #131 
                                               - So idiom isn't your strong suit, either...  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 09:02 PM   #134 
                                   - I'm glad you recognize the official Catholic Church theology is cartoonish.  trotsky   Feb-23-11 07:27 AM   #82 
                                      - It wasn't the RCC I called Pogo.  rug   Feb-23-11 02:43 PM   #91 
                                         - Yeah I know, you switch to pathetic one-liners when you've lost the argument.  trotsky   Feb-23-11 05:05 PM   #95 
                                            - "You're wholly and sadly predictable."  rug   Feb-23-11 05:09 PM   #97 
                                               - Hey when you've given up and can only toss the one-liners,  trotsky   Feb-23-11 05:11 PM   #98 
                                                  - Is there something I should know?  rug   Feb-23-11 05:22 PM   #103 
                                                  - Oh I think you already know.  trotsky   Feb-23-11 06:03 PM   #107 
                    - Aside from the obvious canard you have created here regarding choice, I have a nit to pick.  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 07:20 AM   #80 
                       - "What of all the children who were raised Catholic from their infancy?"  humblebum   Feb-23-11 11:08 AM   #87 
                       - Oh, please. Evidence of that? No, you made it up.  cleanhippie   Feb-23-11 05:12 PM   #99 
                          - Well, Let's see for starts,Comrade Dawkins signed a petition  humblebum   Feb-23-11 05:44 PM   #105 
                             - The headline of your link states -Dawkins: faith schools should teach all religion  cleanhippie   Feb-23-11 06:03 PM   #108 
                                - Well for heaven's sake decide whether that is atheistic thought or  humblebum   Feb-23-11 06:17 PM   #109 
                                   - Dawkins isn't a Communist, and has never said anything that a Communist has said,  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 06:45 PM   #113 
                                      - Religious freedom includes parents being able to teach and rear their  humblebum   Feb-23-11 06:52 PM   #115 
                                         - So the child has no religious freedom?  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 06:55 PM   #116 
                                            - Up to a certain age, no. If parents aren't allowed to teach and influence their children,  humblebum   Feb-23-11 07:22 PM   #117 
                                               - And what age is that?  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 07:34 PM   #119 
                                                  - I said within the law. That is commonly understood. And NO,  humblebum   Feb-23-11 07:41 PM   #120 
                                                  - You're advocating for total parental control.  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 08:03 PM   #121 
                                                  - IIRC we had this discussion too DS3  AlecBGreen   Feb-23-11 08:25 PM   #126 
                                                  - Here's a good place to start:  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 08:32 PM   #128 
                                                  - I agree 100%  AlecBGreen   Feb-23-11 08:37 PM   #129 
                                                  - I favor letting parents decide for their children generally  humblebum   Feb-23-11 09:18 PM   #136 
                                                  - And I've known too many incompetent, short-sighted parents to agree.  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 09:24 PM   #137 
                                                  - And so you feel that because some parents are, to you, "incompetent, short-sighted"  humblebum   Feb-24-11 11:26 AM   #142 
                                                  - A few things for you to consider.  darkstar3   Feb-24-11 12:18 PM   #143 
                                                  - It is hard to even know where to respond to each of your points.  humblebum   Feb-24-11 01:08 PM   #144 
                       - Adults choose.  rug   Feb-23-11 05:06 PM   #96 
                          - Who claims that?  cleanhippie   Feb-23-11 05:13 PM   #100 
                          - It's the flip side of the claim that people are religious due to childhood fears.  rug   Feb-23-11 05:18 PM   #101 
                             - So no one claims that then. You just made it up or what?  cleanhippie   Feb-23-11 05:22 PM   #102 
                                - Nice edit.  rug   Feb-23-11 05:23 PM   #104 
                                   - I will take that as a yes, you made it up and no one but you claims that.  cleanhippie   Feb-23-11 05:59 PM   #106 
                                      - Cosidering your original post suggested religious belief is based childhood fears,  rug   Feb-23-11 06:30 PM   #110 
                                         - It did? I responded to YOUR post. WTF?  cleanhippie   Feb-23-11 07:27 PM   #118 
                                            - Yes it did.  rug   Feb-23-11 08:09 PM   #123 
                                               - What are you talking about?  cleanhippie   Feb-24-11 02:24 PM   #145 
                                                  - And you proceeded to question why the first claim is invalid - before the edit.  rug   Feb-24-11 02:47 PM   #146 
                                                  - and?  cleanhippie   Feb-24-11 03:49 PM   #147 
                                                  - Read it again  rug   Feb-24-11 04:20 PM   #148 
                                                  - That is some denial you have there.  cleanhippie   Feb-25-11 01:10 AM   #149 
                          - I DO have a rather dim view of human autonomy.  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 06:39 PM   #111 
                             - My anecdotes contradict yours.  rug   Feb-23-11 08:08 PM   #122 
                                - My anecdotes weren't the source of my logic.  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 08:24 PM   #125 
                                   - "I base my observation from above on the many people I have talked with in real life"  rug   Feb-23-11 08:39 PM   #130 
                                      - Yeah, try again.  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 09:01 PM   #133 
                                         - I never claimed that.  rug   Feb-23-11 09:28 PM   #138 
                                            - Well, if you keep leaving out words, you can make that equivocation.  darkstar3   Feb-23-11 09:43 PM   #140 
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