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Reply #77: Wow, it is like Global warming denial. Don't look for the answer and you won't find it. [View All]

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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-21-11 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #62
77. Wow, it is like Global warming denial. Don't look for the answer and you won't find it.
And I never looked down my nose, only discussed definitions. I care because words have meanings. Whether we are discussing atheism and religion, the redefinition of liberal to equal communist/fascist/socialist, or the easy way words are redefined, it harms discourse. In order to communicate clearly, we need to know what words we use, because those words have power.

Funny, I discussed the definition words, not the label people put on themselves. I discussed how redefining words takes the meaning out of a discussion.

You then decide to label me as intolerant. It seems, that you must be enjoying the view down the end of your nose, since you resorted to labels rather than definitions.
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  -Everyone is born an atheist. cleanhippie  Jan-21-11 10:53 AM   #0 
  - not really  BOG PERSON   Jan-21-11 10:59 AM   #1 
  - No, atheism is a LACK of belief. Babies have a LACK of belief, ergo, they are atheists.  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:00 AM   #3 
  - i have to disagree  BOG PERSON   Jan-21-11 11:08 AM   #9 
     - Really? I am an atheist and I never claimed that there is no god.  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:14 AM   #13 
     - What you say makes you an agnostic by definition.  Ozymanithrax   Jan-21-11 12:06 PM   #29 
     - But your definition implies a positive belief.  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 12:18 PM   #30 
     - An agnostic has neither a positive belief or a negative beliefe...  Ozymanithrax   Jan-21-11 04:46 PM   #47 
     - See #44,  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 04:59 PM   #48 
     - Words have real meanings...and if we let every individual define his own meaning...  Ozymanithrax   Jan-21-11 05:30 PM   #50 
        - You ignore the fact that more definitions are recognized than your chosen pigeonhole.  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 05:43 PM   #52 
           - No, bu if you want to define a word you should recognize the primary definiton...  Ozymanithrax   Jan-21-11 05:49 PM   #54 
              - Who are you to claim that your chosen definition is primary?  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 05:56 PM   #55 
                 - Check out the dictionary. They put a (1) to show the primary meaning.  Ozymanithrax   Jan-21-11 06:07 PM   #58 
                    - WHICH dictionary?  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 06:12 PM   #59 
                       - Oxfords English Dictionary...  Ozymanithrax   Jan-21-11 06:19 PM   #60 
                          - Don't have one of those handy,  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 06:43 PM   #62 
                             - Wow, it is like Global warming denial. Don't look for the answer and you won't find it.  Ozymanithrax   Jan-21-11 08:14 PM   #77 
     - care to cite  skepticscott   Jan-21-11 07:44 PM   #75 
     - I dont think you get to define the word atheist  qazplm   Jan-31-11 01:08 PM   #133 
        - You are a day late and a dollar short.  cleanhippie   Jan-31-11 01:14 PM   #134 
     - If a person believes in god, but has room for doubt, then that person is a theist.  ZombieHorde   Jan-21-11 07:39 PM   #74 
     - i self identify as an atheist  BOG PERSON   Jan-21-11 01:15 PM   #36 
        - Interesting. You are the first I have ever met that defines themselves that way.  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 02:02 PM   #37 
     - Hmmmm...  Kelvin Mace   Jan-21-11 11:24 AM   #20 
     - False.  Odin2005   Jan-21-11 03:34 PM   #41 
     - not according to a dictionary  BOG PERSON   Jan-21-11 03:48 PM   #42 
        - Which dictionary, and which definition?  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 04:00 PM   #44 
        - Exactly my point in another post  Kelvin Mace   Jan-21-11 04:25 PM   #46 
        - What you are claiming is Humpty's Dictum...  Ozymanithrax   Jan-21-11 05:42 PM   #51 
           - You are picking one definition from a dictionary and stating it is the correct one,  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 05:45 PM   #53 
              - When two people communicate and use a word, they must come to a...  Ozymanithrax   Jan-21-11 05:59 PM   #56 
                 - Again you claim that your chosen definition is primary,  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 06:05 PM   #57 
                 - Any dictionary which completely ignores the etymology of the word  Goblinmonger   Jan-22-11 09:13 PM   #112 
        - Dictionaries list usages, not only technically correct definitions  dmallind   Jan-24-11 11:26 AM   #122 
     - "lack of belief is just a result of apathy or indifference or laziness"  Silent3   Jan-22-11 07:26 PM   #111 
     - Atheism is litterally a lack of belief...  Deep13   Jan-24-11 10:42 AM   #121 
  - This is what I meant about "semantics"  Kelvin Mace   Jan-21-11 11:07 AM   #8 
     - Really? Even though it has been explained that a lack of belief...  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:36 AM   #25 
        - Deleted message  Name removed   Jan-21-11 12:29 PM   #31 
  - I think you're wrong.  Jackpine Radical   Jan-21-11 11:00 AM   #2 
  - I disagree, but thank you for your intelligent response.  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:05 AM   #6 
  - self delete, wrong place  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:02 AM   #4 
  - And I thought *I* was  Kelvin Mace   Jan-21-11 11:03 AM   #5 
  - Well, this IS supposed to be a DISCUSSION forum, right?  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:06 AM   #7 
     - And given that I responded  Kelvin Mace   Jan-21-11 11:13 AM   #12 
        - On that, your magic 8 ball may be right!  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:15 AM   #15 
  - You kind of have to "wake up" to become an atheist.  tinrobot   Jan-21-11 11:11 AM   #10 
  - You don't think that they believe in Santa, etc, BECAUSE they are taught that?  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:17 AM   #16 
  - Atheism is what happens when we educate ourselves to become rational adults.  tinrobot   Jan-21-11 01:01 PM   #34 
  - if you don't know about a god, you are an atheist regarding that god.  provis99   Feb-23-11 03:01 AM   #135 
  - technically true, but moot.  yodermon   Jan-21-11 11:12 AM   #11 
  - I think this depends on what you mean by atheist.  Skinner   Jan-21-11 11:15 AM   #14 
  - I think the commen definiton of atheism,  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:20 AM   #18 
  - I think my post made clear that I agree that babies are born with a lack of belief...  Skinner   Jan-21-11 11:25 AM   #21 
     - Fair enough, I just thought that your subject line was questioning that definition  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:27 AM   #22 
  - The very way this argument tends to go  Kelvin Mace   Jan-21-11 11:35 AM   #24 
     - Consider this...  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:40 AM   #27 
        - Well, not exactly  Kelvin Mace   Jan-21-11 12:53 PM   #33 
  - Wow, how insightful! (Delete snarky comment that originally was here.)  elocs   Jan-21-11 11:18 AM   #17 
  - Yes, but we are talking about believing in a god, not typing.  cleanhippie   Jan-21-11 11:21 AM   #19 
  - Everyone is an atheist. Most are too afraid to admit it! (eom)  Henryman   Jan-21-11 11:32 AM   # 
  - It has been my experience that dogamtism  Kelvin Mace   Jan-21-11 11:38 AM   #26 
  - Everyone is an atheist. Most are too afraid to admit it! (eom)  Henryman   Jan-21-11 11:32 AM   #23 
  - If you subscribe to the tabula rosa theory of babies  TZ   Jan-21-11 11:48 AM   #28 
  - Which is something I find fascinating  Kelvin Mace   Jan-21-11 01:04 PM   #35 
  - Hmm...everyone is born pretty much with no knowledge of  MineralMan   Jan-21-11 12:49 PM   #32 
  - You're right.  laconicsax   Jan-21-11 03:16 PM   #38 
  - Everyone is born really small, too.  GliderGuider   Jan-21-11 03:24 PM   #39 
  - Anybody else seen the documentary "Babies?"  onager   Jan-21-11 03:30 PM   #40 
  - I must be a contrarian,  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 03:55 PM   #43 
  - Thanks for the insight  Kelvin Mace   Jan-21-11 04:14 PM   #45 
  - This atheist thinks this is a very interesting post!  Odin2005   Jan-21-11 05:27 PM   #49 
  - I pick Wrong.  rug   Jan-21-11 06:36 PM   #61 
  - There is a whole subthread above that tackles that topic,  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 06:46 PM   #63 
  - One line is hardly a rehash.  rug   Jan-21-11 06:52 PM   #64 
     - That's your choice.  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 07:02 PM   #65 
        - That would be a thoughtful response had I said that.  rug   Jan-21-11 07:21 PM   #67 
           - You didn't say that?  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 07:26 PM   #69 
              - No.  rug   Jan-21-11 07:30 PM   #70 
                 - Your terseness once again works against you.  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 07:34 PM   #72 
                    - It might indeed.  rug   Jan-21-11 07:36 PM   #73 
  - I'll bet that I can name a dozen things...  laconicsax   Jan-21-11 07:03 PM   #66 
     - Be my guest.  rug   Jan-21-11 07:22 PM   #68 
        - Ok, here's a list of 12 things in which you have no belief and no prior concept of what they are:  laconicsax   Jan-21-11 08:04 PM   #76 
           - I wouldn't say I was born an acszabalist either.  rug   Jan-21-11 08:21 PM   #78 
              - Your response doesn't make sense--One isn't a Cszabalist or acszabalist.  laconicsax   Jan-21-11 09:53 PM   #81 
                 - or atheism.  rug   Jan-21-11 10:15 PM   #84 
                    - That's twice you've dodged the fact that you were wrong. n/t  laconicsax   Jan-21-11 10:39 PM   #85 
                       - [ ]  rug   Jan-21-11 11:01 PM   #86 
  - Yes.  Iggo   Jan-21-11 07:33 PM   #71 
  - I thought everyone was born a solipsist and then passed into ego-maniacal magical thinking  struggle4progress   Jan-21-11 08:46 PM   #79 
  - No one is born an atheist.  kwassa   Jan-21-11 09:44 PM   #80 
  - You could have done just fine without the last paragraph.  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 09:53 PM   #82 
  - I think frequency does validate religion  kwassa   Jan-21-11 11:37 PM   #90 
     - It is not universal, or we wouldn't be having this conversation.  darkstar3   Jan-22-11 12:20 AM   #95 
  - Superstition is a result of how our brains work.  laconicsax   Jan-21-11 10:05 PM   #83 
     - In your opinion  kwassa   Jan-21-11 11:34 PM   #88 
        - "Many million" also believe that gravity is just a theory.  darkstar3   Jan-21-11 11:37 PM   #89 
        - whatever  kwassa   Jan-21-11 11:42 PM   #91 
           - whatever, indeed.  cleanhippie   Jan-22-11 10:53 AM   #97 
              - Religion is still a way to explain the unexplainable.  kwassa   Jan-22-11 10:29 PM   #114 
        - ...and that's a fallacy  laconicsax   Jan-22-11 12:03 AM   #93 
           - Where would R/T be without fallacious argumentation?  darkstar3   Jan-22-11 12:13 AM   #94 
  - To argue about a god one must first define a god  Angry Dragon   Jan-21-11 11:08 PM   #87 
  - Agreed.  cleanhippie   Jan-22-11 10:54 AM   #98 
     - Can one have a religion without a god??  Angry Dragon   Jan-22-11 11:02 AM   #100 
        - My perimeters?  cleanhippie   Jan-22-11 11:07 AM   #101 
           - Used the wrong word  Angry Dragon   Jan-22-11 11:22 AM   #102 
              - You make an interesting point.  cleanhippie   Jan-22-11 11:35 AM   #103 
                 - Man has to apply what is around him to what he understands  Angry Dragon   Jan-22-11 01:05 PM   #106 
                    - Agreed.  cleanhippie   Jan-22-11 01:52 PM   #108 
                       - Fear  Angry Dragon   Jan-22-11 04:10 PM   #110 
                          - We are not so different after all.  cleanhippie   Jan-22-11 09:45 PM   #113 
                             - There is a slight problem with that  Angry Dragon   Jan-23-11 05:40 PM   #118 
                                - You don't have to...  cleanhippie   Jan-24-11 09:15 AM   #119 
  - In the same sense...  houstonintc   Jan-21-11 11:51 PM   #92 
  - you're right...  Jeffersons Ghost   Jan-22-11 04:06 AM   #96 
  - Or  cleanhippie   Jan-22-11 10:55 AM   #99 
     - this is an issue I am grappling with CH  AlecBGreen   Jan-22-11 12:18 PM   #104 
        - I read a book that changed my whole mindset on this  cleanhippie   Jan-22-11 12:57 PM   #105 
           - It looks like a good book and not too pricey either  AlecBGreen   Jan-22-11 01:18 PM   #107 
              - Well, I think the subject of "accepting"  cleanhippie   Jan-22-11 01:59 PM   #109 
  - Wrong.  Desertrose   Jan-23-11 12:19 PM   #115 
  - You are right, but not about me being wrong.  cleanhippie   Jan-23-11 03:14 PM   #117 
  - I certainly was.  Codeine   Jan-23-11 01:31 PM   #116 
  - I don't know if that is true.  Deep13   Jan-24-11 10:40 AM   #120 
  - Children are born without any ideology  peopleb4money   Jan-24-11 11:00 PM   #123 
  - Really? Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on the "ideology" of atheism.  laconicsax   Jan-24-11 11:39 PM   #124 
     - Its an assertion about reality  peopleb4money   Jan-25-11 10:34 PM   #125 
        - "A lot of"... how many is that?  cleanhippie   Jan-26-11 12:54 AM   #126 
        - Their leader is Richard Dawkins, and he's out to spread his ideology by force.  LAGC   Jan-28-11 02:58 AM   #129 
        - I don't think you actually understand what you're talking about.  laconicsax   Jan-26-11 02:06 AM   #127 
  - Not quite. I think folks are born with a natural curiosity about spiritual matters.  Pterodactyl   Jan-26-11 07:58 PM   #128 
     - I wasn't.  Codeine   Jan-30-11 10:21 AM   #130 
     - Can you provide any evidence that what you "think" has any merit as a fact?  cleanhippie   Jan-30-11 11:25 AM   #131 
     - Your opinion does in fact have some merit. It has been theorized that  humblebum   Jan-30-11 12:48 PM   #132 

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