Kelvin Mace
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Fri Jan-21-11 11:03 AM
Response to Original message |
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tossing a grenade when I posted in the Gun forum.  I would say that given the inability to formulate any opinion at birth, this statement is going to lead to a LOT of discussion of semantics. "Forced" is a pretty loaded term. True in some cases, not so in others. I see religion as learned behavior, taught by parents, and in my view, right up there with the Easter Bunny and Santa. If you are lucky, you also learn to reason and use logic as you grow up, then you get to test everything you were taught: Morality, religion, politics, etc. |
| -Everyone is born an atheist. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 10:53 AM |
#0 |
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not really |
BOG PERSON |
Jan-21-11 10:59 AM |
#1 |
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No, atheism is a LACK of belief. Babies have a LACK of belief, ergo, they are atheists. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:00 AM |
#3 |
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i have to disagree |
BOG PERSON |
Jan-21-11 11:08 AM |
#9 |
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Really? I am an atheist and I never claimed that there is no god. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:14 AM |
#13 |
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What you say makes you an agnostic by definition. |
Ozymanithrax |
Jan-21-11 12:06 PM |
#29 |
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But your definition implies a positive belief. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 12:18 PM |
#30 |
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An agnostic has neither a positive belief or a negative beliefe... |
Ozymanithrax |
Jan-21-11 04:46 PM |
#47 |
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See #44, |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 04:59 PM |
#48 |
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Words have real meanings...and if we let every individual define his own meaning... |
Ozymanithrax |
Jan-21-11 05:30 PM |
#50 |
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You ignore the fact that more definitions are recognized than your chosen pigeonhole. |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 05:43 PM |
#52 |
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No, bu if you want to define a word you should recognize the primary definiton... |
Ozymanithrax |
Jan-21-11 05:49 PM |
#54 |
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Who are you to claim that your chosen definition is primary? |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 05:56 PM |
#55 |
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Check out the dictionary. They put a (1) to show the primary meaning. |
Ozymanithrax |
Jan-21-11 06:07 PM |
#58 |
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WHICH dictionary? |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 06:12 PM |
#59 |
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Oxfords English Dictionary... |
Ozymanithrax |
Jan-21-11 06:19 PM |
#60 |
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Don't have one of those handy, |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 06:43 PM |
#62 |
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Wow, it is like Global warming denial. Don't look for the answer and you won't find it. |
Ozymanithrax |
Jan-21-11 08:14 PM |
#77 |
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care to cite |
skepticscott |
Jan-21-11 07:44 PM |
#75 |
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I dont think you get to define the word atheist |
qazplm |
Jan-31-11 01:08 PM |
#133 |
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You are a day late and a dollar short. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-31-11 01:14 PM |
#134 |
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If a person believes in god, but has room for doubt, then that person is a theist. |
ZombieHorde |
Jan-21-11 07:39 PM |
#74 |
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i self identify as an atheist |
BOG PERSON |
Jan-21-11 01:15 PM |
#36 |
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Interesting. You are the first I have ever met that defines themselves that way. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 02:02 PM |
#37 |
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Hmmmm... |
Kelvin Mace |
Jan-21-11 11:24 AM |
#20 |
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False. |
Odin2005 |
Jan-21-11 03:34 PM |
#41 |
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not according to a dictionary |
BOG PERSON |
Jan-21-11 03:48 PM |
#42 |
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Which dictionary, and which definition? |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 04:00 PM |
#44 |
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Exactly my point in another post |
Kelvin Mace |
Jan-21-11 04:25 PM |
#46 |
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What you are claiming is Humpty's Dictum... |
Ozymanithrax |
Jan-21-11 05:42 PM |
#51 |
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You are picking one definition from a dictionary and stating it is the correct one, |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 05:45 PM |
#53 |
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When two people communicate and use a word, they must come to a... |
Ozymanithrax |
Jan-21-11 05:59 PM |
#56 |
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Again you claim that your chosen definition is primary, |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 06:05 PM |
#57 |
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Any dictionary which completely ignores the etymology of the word |
Goblinmonger |
Jan-22-11 09:13 PM |
#112 |
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Dictionaries list usages, not only technically correct definitions |
dmallind |
Jan-24-11 11:26 AM |
#122 |
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"lack of belief is just a result of apathy or indifference or laziness" |
Silent3 |
Jan-22-11 07:26 PM |
#111 |
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Atheism is litterally a lack of belief... |
Deep13 |
Jan-24-11 10:42 AM |
#121 |
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This is what I meant about "semantics" |
Kelvin Mace |
Jan-21-11 11:07 AM |
#8 |
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Really? Even though it has been explained that a lack of belief... |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:36 AM |
#25 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Jan-21-11 12:29 PM |
#31 |
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I think you're wrong. |
Jackpine Radical |
Jan-21-11 11:00 AM |
#2 |
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I disagree, but thank you for your intelligent response. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:05 AM |
#6 |
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self delete, wrong place |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:02 AM |
#4 |
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And I thought *I* was |
Kelvin Mace |
Jan-21-11 11:03 AM |
#5 |
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Well, this IS supposed to be a DISCUSSION forum, right? |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:06 AM |
#7 |
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And given that I responded |
Kelvin Mace |
Jan-21-11 11:13 AM |
#12 |
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On that, your magic 8 ball may be right! |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:15 AM |
#15 |
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You kind of have to "wake up" to become an atheist. |
tinrobot |
Jan-21-11 11:11 AM |
#10 |
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You don't think that they believe in Santa, etc, BECAUSE they are taught that? |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:17 AM |
#16 |
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Atheism is what happens when we educate ourselves to become rational adults. |
tinrobot |
Jan-21-11 01:01 PM |
#34 |
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if you don't know about a god, you are an atheist regarding that god. |
provis99 |
Feb-23-11 03:01 AM |
#135 |
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technically true, but moot. |
yodermon |
Jan-21-11 11:12 AM |
#11 |
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I think this depends on what you mean by atheist. |
Skinner |
Jan-21-11 11:15 AM |
#14 |
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I think the commen definiton of atheism, |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:20 AM |
#18 |
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I think my post made clear that I agree that babies are born with a lack of belief... |
Skinner |
Jan-21-11 11:25 AM |
#21 |
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Fair enough, I just thought that your subject line was questioning that definition |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:27 AM |
#22 |
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The very way this argument tends to go |
Kelvin Mace |
Jan-21-11 11:35 AM |
#24 |
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Consider this... |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:40 AM |
#27 |
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Well, not exactly |
Kelvin Mace |
Jan-21-11 12:53 PM |
#33 |
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Wow, how insightful! (Delete snarky comment that originally was here.) |
elocs |
Jan-21-11 11:18 AM |
#17 |
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Yes, but we are talking about believing in a god, not typing. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-21-11 11:21 AM |
#19 |
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Everyone is an atheist. Most are too afraid to admit it! (eom) |
Henryman |
Jan-21-11 11:32 AM |
# |
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It has been my experience that dogamtism |
Kelvin Mace |
Jan-21-11 11:38 AM |
#26 |
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Everyone is an atheist. Most are too afraid to admit it! (eom) |
Henryman |
Jan-21-11 11:32 AM |
#23 |
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If you subscribe to the tabula rosa theory of babies |
TZ |
Jan-21-11 11:48 AM |
#28 |
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Which is something I find fascinating |
Kelvin Mace |
Jan-21-11 01:04 PM |
#35 |
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Hmm...everyone is born pretty much with no knowledge of |
MineralMan |
Jan-21-11 12:49 PM |
#32 |
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You're right. |
laconicsax |
Jan-21-11 03:16 PM |
#38 |
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Everyone is born really small, too. |
GliderGuider |
Jan-21-11 03:24 PM |
#39 |
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Anybody else seen the documentary "Babies?" |
onager |
Jan-21-11 03:30 PM |
#40 |
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I must be a contrarian, |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 03:55 PM |
#43 |
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Thanks for the insight |
Kelvin Mace |
Jan-21-11 04:14 PM |
#45 |
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This atheist thinks this is a very interesting post! |
Odin2005 |
Jan-21-11 05:27 PM |
#49 |
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I pick Wrong. |
rug |
Jan-21-11 06:36 PM |
#61 |
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There is a whole subthread above that tackles that topic, |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 06:46 PM |
#63 |
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One line is hardly a rehash. |
rug |
Jan-21-11 06:52 PM |
#64 |
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That's your choice. |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 07:02 PM |
#65 |
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That would be a thoughtful response had I said that. |
rug |
Jan-21-11 07:21 PM |
#67 |
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You didn't say that? |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 07:26 PM |
#69 |
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No. |
rug |
Jan-21-11 07:30 PM |
#70 |
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Your terseness once again works against you. |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 07:34 PM |
#72 |
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It might indeed. |
rug |
Jan-21-11 07:36 PM |
#73 |
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I'll bet that I can name a dozen things... |
laconicsax |
Jan-21-11 07:03 PM |
#66 |
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Be my guest. |
rug |
Jan-21-11 07:22 PM |
#68 |
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Ok, here's a list of 12 things in which you have no belief and no prior concept of what they are: |
laconicsax |
Jan-21-11 08:04 PM |
#76 |
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I wouldn't say I was born an acszabalist either. |
rug |
Jan-21-11 08:21 PM |
#78 |
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Your response doesn't make sense--One isn't a Cszabalist or acszabalist. |
laconicsax |
Jan-21-11 09:53 PM |
#81 |
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or atheism. |
rug |
Jan-21-11 10:15 PM |
#84 |
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That's twice you've dodged the fact that you were wrong. n/t |
laconicsax |
Jan-21-11 10:39 PM |
#85 |
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[ ] |
rug |
Jan-21-11 11:01 PM |
#86 |
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Yes. |
Iggo |
Jan-21-11 07:33 PM |
#71 |
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I thought everyone was born a solipsist and then passed into ego-maniacal magical thinking |
struggle4progress |
Jan-21-11 08:46 PM |
#79 |
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No one is born an atheist. |
kwassa |
Jan-21-11 09:44 PM |
#80 |
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You could have done just fine without the last paragraph. |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 09:53 PM |
#82 |
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I think frequency does validate religion |
kwassa |
Jan-21-11 11:37 PM |
#90 |
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It is not universal, or we wouldn't be having this conversation. |
darkstar3 |
Jan-22-11 12:20 AM |
#95 |
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Superstition is a result of how our brains work. |
laconicsax |
Jan-21-11 10:05 PM |
#83 |
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In your opinion |
kwassa |
Jan-21-11 11:34 PM |
#88 |
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"Many million" also believe that gravity is just a theory. |
darkstar3 |
Jan-21-11 11:37 PM |
#89 |
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whatever |
kwassa |
Jan-21-11 11:42 PM |
#91 |
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whatever, indeed. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-22-11 10:53 AM |
#97 |
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Religion is still a way to explain the unexplainable. |
kwassa |
Jan-22-11 10:29 PM |
#114 |
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...and that's a fallacy |
laconicsax |
Jan-22-11 12:03 AM |
#93 |
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Where would R/T be without fallacious argumentation? |
darkstar3 |
Jan-22-11 12:13 AM |
#94 |
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To argue about a god one must first define a god |
Angry Dragon |
Jan-21-11 11:08 PM |
#87 |
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Agreed. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-22-11 10:54 AM |
#98 |
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Can one have a religion without a god?? |
Angry Dragon |
Jan-22-11 11:02 AM |
#100 |
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My perimeters? |
cleanhippie |
Jan-22-11 11:07 AM |
#101 |
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Used the wrong word |
Angry Dragon |
Jan-22-11 11:22 AM |
#102 |
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You make an interesting point. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-22-11 11:35 AM |
#103 |
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Man has to apply what is around him to what he understands |
Angry Dragon |
Jan-22-11 01:05 PM |
#106 |
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Agreed. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-22-11 01:52 PM |
#108 |
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Fear |
Angry Dragon |
Jan-22-11 04:10 PM |
#110 |
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We are not so different after all. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-22-11 09:45 PM |
#113 |
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There is a slight problem with that |
Angry Dragon |
Jan-23-11 05:40 PM |
#118 |
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You don't have to... |
cleanhippie |
Jan-24-11 09:15 AM |
#119 |
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In the same sense... |
houstonintc |
Jan-21-11 11:51 PM |
#92 |
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you're right... |
Jeffersons Ghost |
Jan-22-11 04:06 AM |
#96 |
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Or |
cleanhippie |
Jan-22-11 10:55 AM |
#99 |
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this is an issue I am grappling with CH |
AlecBGreen |
Jan-22-11 12:18 PM |
#104 |
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I read a book that changed my whole mindset on this |
cleanhippie |
Jan-22-11 12:57 PM |
#105 |
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It looks like a good book and not too pricey either |
AlecBGreen |
Jan-22-11 01:18 PM |
#107 |
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Well, I think the subject of "accepting" |
cleanhippie |
Jan-22-11 01:59 PM |
#109 |
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Wrong. |
Desertrose |
Jan-23-11 12:19 PM |
#115 |
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You are right, but not about me being wrong. |
cleanhippie |
Jan-23-11 03:14 PM |
#117 |
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I certainly was. |
Codeine |
Jan-23-11 01:31 PM |
#116 |
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I don't know if that is true. |
Deep13 |
Jan-24-11 10:40 AM |
#120 |
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Children are born without any ideology |
peopleb4money |
Jan-24-11 11:00 PM |
#123 |
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Really? Perhaps you'd care to elaborate on the "ideology" of atheism. |
laconicsax |
Jan-24-11 11:39 PM |
#124 |
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Its an assertion about reality |
peopleb4money |
Jan-25-11 10:34 PM |
#125 |
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"A lot of"... how many is that? |
cleanhippie |
Jan-26-11 12:54 AM |
#126 |
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Their leader is Richard Dawkins, and he's out to spread his ideology by force. |
LAGC |
Jan-28-11 02:58 AM |
#129 |
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I don't think you actually understand what you're talking about. |
laconicsax |
Jan-26-11 02:06 AM |
#127 |
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Not quite. I think folks are born with a natural curiosity about spiritual matters. |
Pterodactyl |
Jan-26-11 07:58 PM |
#128 |
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I wasn't. |
Codeine |
Jan-30-11 10:21 AM |
#130 |
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Can you provide any evidence that what you "think" has any merit as a fact? |
cleanhippie |
Jan-30-11 11:25 AM |
#131 |
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Your opinion does in fact have some merit. It has been theorized that |
humblebum |
Jan-30-11 12:48 PM |
#132 |
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