humblebum
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Tue Aug-10-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #37 |
| 87. that is a rather weak argument, but one bandied about as standard atheist |
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Edited on Tue Aug-10-10 04:47 PM by humblebum
reasoning. So much so that it has come to no longer be questioned. The other books you use in comparison have known authorship and their characters are never claimed to be anything other Than fictitious. The Bible by contrast is really a collection of books and those authors do claim that their stories are true. While we are dealing with subjective interpretation here, that certainly does not disallow the Bible to be used as one piece of evidence, be it circumstantial. This argument is no more or less valid than someone who says, "If I cannot see, hear, smell, taste, or feel something then it doesn't or cannot exist (empiricism)."
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| -Challenge to theists |
laconicsax |
Aug-07-10 11:42 PM |
#0 |
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Beliefs are personal opinions. |
OneTenthofOnePercent |
Aug-07-10 11:45 PM |
#1 |
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If you make a claim in the public forum (eg there is a god) that claim is open to scrutiny |
laconicsax |
Aug-07-10 11:54 PM |
#2 |
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I missed where anyone said otherwise. n/t |
Realityhack |
Aug-10-10 04:34 PM |
#86 |
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Not so, when someone claims they have the "truth" and that we should all believe or be killed |
cleanhippie |
Aug-11-10 09:27 AM |
#99 |
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Sure, they have the right... |
Zadoc |
Aug-16-10 02:57 AM |
#117 |
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Even Genesis called it a collaborative enterprise |
Warpy |
Aug-07-10 11:54 PM |
#3 |
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Using the Bible is circular. |
laconicsax |
Aug-07-10 11:57 PM |
#4 |
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The Elhoistic portion of Genesis, the creation myth before |
Warpy |
Aug-08-10 12:06 AM |
#6 |
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The polytheism is sort of like bookends... |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 12:41 AM |
#11 |
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Well, it's a bit different at the end, sort of a |
Warpy |
Aug-08-10 12:43 AM |
#12 |
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It's both. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 12:46 AM |
#13 |
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There seems to be a constant "truth" the Bible cannot be |
Leontius |
Aug-08-10 09:12 AM |
#24 |
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Sure. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 06:31 PM |
#37 |
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Your answer failed to address my question, try again if you wish. |
Leontius |
Aug-08-10 07:05 PM |
#45 |
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That "worn out example" is all that's needed--circular argument isn't valid. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 07:58 PM |
#47 |
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Failed again but do keep trying you may actually hit on |
Leontius |
Aug-08-10 08:21 PM |
#51 |
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Maybe you'd like to explain why you think the Bible is a reliable source. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 09:13 PM |
#52 |
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Failed again? How so? |
cleanhippie |
Aug-10-10 04:23 PM |
#85 |
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What is wrong with the classics? nt |
ZombieHorde |
Aug-08-10 09:32 PM |
#53 |
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that is a rather weak argument, but one bandied about as standard atheist |
humblebum |
Aug-10-10 04:35 PM |
#87 |
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You're telling the rest of us you can't see outside the circle in that argument? |
darkstar3 |
Aug-10-10 08:45 PM |
#94 |
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And you know for certain what the authors of the Bible |
skepticscott |
Aug-10-10 09:53 PM |
#96 |
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"...idiotic and intellectually dishonest a characterization of empiricism..." |
humblebum |
Aug-10-10 10:55 PM |
#97 |
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Buzz! Wrong. |
darkstar3 |
Aug-11-10 12:00 AM |
#98 |
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"The Bible can most certainly be used as part of any research toward or attempt in understanding an" |
cleanhippie |
Aug-11-10 09:32 AM |
#100 |
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What you said was |
skepticscott |
Aug-11-10 04:58 PM |
#104 |
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First question. |
humblebum |
Aug-11-10 05:59 PM |
#106 |
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Another non-answer |
skepticscott |
Aug-11-10 08:18 PM |
#109 |
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I'm beginning to see that you are just rambling to give people |
humblebum |
Aug-11-10 11:17 PM |
#110 |
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There's that projection again...n/t |
darkstar3 |
Aug-11-10 11:53 PM |
#111 |
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Something tells me he has a bitter rivalry with a measurement device. n/t |
laconicsax |
Aug-12-10 12:10 AM |
#112 |
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Well done. n/t |
darkstar3 |
Aug-12-10 12:43 AM |
#113 |
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Still more non-answers |
skepticscott |
Aug-12-10 05:33 PM |
#115 |
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Why would someone think there is more then One True God? |
RandomThoughts |
Aug-08-10 12:02 AM |
#5 |
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That has to be the most arrogant thing I've read in a while. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 12:35 AM |
#10 |
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I understand people have different views. |
RandomThoughts |
Aug-08-10 01:05 AM |
#14 |
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And what is the One True God?? |
Angry Dragon |
Aug-14-10 10:12 PM |
#116 |
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He can stick his challenge back up his atheistic ass... |
TreasonousBastard |
Aug-08-10 12:20 AM |
#7 |
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I'll make sure to PM you with links to each and every instance I find... |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 12:31 AM |
#8 |
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By definition faith is not making a true or false claim. |
RandomThoughts |
Aug-08-10 02:24 AM |
#17 |
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A couple things. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 03:59 AM |
#20 |
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Shall we genuflect and call you "master" as well? |
darkstar3 |
Aug-08-10 12:32 AM |
#9 |
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I try not to worry about it either. |
RandomThoughts |
Aug-08-10 01:29 AM |
#15 |
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The challenge is to prove the foundation of an argument. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 02:07 AM |
#16 |
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Oh you want proof of what the supernatural is. |
RandomThoughts |
Aug-08-10 02:31 AM |
#18 |
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That's not at all what I said, nor is it what I meant. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 03:39 AM |
#19 |
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Ok you might be missing my point. |
RandomThoughts |
Aug-08-10 04:44 AM |
#21 |
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No, I got your point. It just happens to be completely off the mark from what I'm saying. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 03:24 PM |
#30 |
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Can you agree that proof is subjective. |
RandomThoughts |
Aug-08-10 05:01 AM |
#22 |
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Only for some things. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 03:29 PM |
#31 |
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The persuasion of probability is not and cannot be proof. |
ironbark |
Aug-08-10 09:14 AM |
#25 |
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I never said it was the argument...I said it was an argument. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 03:18 PM |
#29 |
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“The” or “an”, the parameters are too limited to be any kind of “argument”. |
ironbark |
Aug-08-10 06:55 PM |
#43 |
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Argumentum ad ignorantiam, arugumentum ad populum, circular argument. |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 08:13 PM |
#49 |
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Deleted message |
Name removed |
Aug-08-10 10:12 PM |
#55 |
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Ad hominem. n/t |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 11:17 PM |
#58 |
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"If God wanted everyone to know exactly what was what, they would." |
cleanhippie |
Aug-11-10 09:36 AM |
#101 |
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That actually follows logically from omnipotence. |
laconicsax |
Aug-12-10 05:09 PM |
#114 |
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The second god would not be god. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 09:02 AM |
#23 |
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For you or for everybody? nt |
rrneck |
Aug-08-10 11:36 AM |
#26 |
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If there is a god it is for everybody. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 11:41 AM |
#27 |
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If your god is for everybody, |
rrneck |
Aug-08-10 01:58 PM |
#28 |
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It's not "my" god and if there is one there are no others to supersede. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 05:52 PM |
#32 |
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Whose god if not yours? nt |
rrneck |
Aug-08-10 06:09 PM |
#34 |
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Ours. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 06:13 PM |
#35 |
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Then whatever gods |
rrneck |
Aug-08-10 06:29 PM |
#36 |
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No, whether god does or does not exist does not depend on belief or disbelief. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 06:34 PM |
#39 |
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Then how'd you get the first one |
rrneck |
Aug-08-10 06:38 PM |
#40 |
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Belief no more makes a god than disbelief destroys it. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 06:43 PM |
#41 |
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Revelation of what exactly? |
rrneck |
Aug-08-10 06:51 PM |
#42 |
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I can't but he does |
rug |
Aug-08-10 06:55 PM |
#44 |
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Can you not describe your own god? |
rrneck |
Aug-08-10 07:44 PM |
#46 |
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For one thing, you don't have to accept it. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 10:46 PM |
#57 |
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According to you I have to accept it. |
rrneck |
Aug-08-10 11:25 PM |
#59 |
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You don't have to accept global warming either. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 11:35 PM |
#60 |
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Is god as real as global warming? |
rrneck |
Aug-08-10 11:57 PM |
#63 |
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Yes. No. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 11:59 PM |
#64 |
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*sigh* It happens all the time. |
rrneck |
Aug-09-10 12:09 AM |
#66 |
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Interesting article. Thanks for the link. |
ironbark |
Aug-08-10 08:08 PM |
#48 |
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Glad you found it interesting. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 10:35 PM |
#56 |
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"What is disbelief based on?" - Are you serious? |
cleanhippie |
Aug-11-10 09:41 AM |
#102 |
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Witnessing cognitive dissonance |
rrneck |
Aug-11-10 11:26 AM |
#103 |
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Deadly serious. |
rug |
Aug-11-10 05:34 PM |
#105 |
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Lack of evidence. |
cleanhippie |
Aug-11-10 06:01 PM |
#107 |
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What do you use to weigh the evidence? |
rug |
Aug-11-10 06:06 PM |
#108 |
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So monotheism is the only possibility? |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 08:17 PM |
#50 |
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There really is no true polytheism. Even Hinduism has Svayam Bhagavan. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 11:51 PM |
#61 |
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So the limits of polytheism must be defined by what has already been imagined? |
laconicsax |
Aug-09-10 12:09 AM |
#65 |
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Convince me. |
rug |
Aug-09-10 12:18 AM |
#67 |
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Why would anybody want to do that |
rrneck |
Aug-09-10 12:40 AM |
#68 |
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Of what? I asked you a question. |
laconicsax |
Aug-09-10 12:54 AM |
#69 |
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Why not? nt |
ZombieHorde |
Aug-08-10 09:33 PM |
#54 |
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A god that is second is, ipso facto, limited. |
rug |
Aug-08-10 11:52 PM |
#62 |
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Why would the second god be limited, why couldn't they be equal? |
ZombieHorde |
Aug-09-10 03:12 AM |
#70 |
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If something is limited it cannot be god. |
rug |
Aug-09-10 12:02 PM |
#74 |
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The Greek and Roman gods were limited and the Old Testament portrays god as limited. |
ZombieHorde |
Aug-09-10 02:04 PM |
#78 |
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The classical gods were more conceits than divinities. |
rug |
Aug-09-10 02:16 PM |
#79 |
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The Greek gods were worshiped, especially Demeter and Dionysus. |
ZombieHorde |
Aug-10-10 02:16 PM |
#83 |
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The OT is as much a description of human nature as it is of God's. |
rug |
Aug-10-10 07:16 PM |
#89 |
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Creating gods is an aspect of human behavior (nature). |
ZombieHorde |
Aug-10-10 07:28 PM |
#91 |
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Too bad the Bible doesn't agree. |
laconicsax |
Aug-10-10 03:55 PM |
#84 |
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Yes that's exactly what that one line means. |
rug |
Aug-10-10 07:17 PM |
#90 |
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It's exactly what that one line says. |
laconicsax |
Aug-10-10 08:21 PM |
#92 |
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He was waiting for Sisera |
rug |
Aug-10-10 08:41 PM |
#93 |
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I accept your apology. n/t |
laconicsax |
Aug-10-10 08:49 PM |
#95 |
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I watched the long version too. Excellent! |
frogmarch |
Aug-08-10 06:00 PM |
#33 |
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Nice. n/t |
laconicsax |
Aug-08-10 06:32 PM |
#38 |
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Why? Scientists can't agree on how the universe was formed |
WolverineDG |
Aug-09-10 10:13 AM |
#71 |
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Try it and see. Maybe you both will learn somenting. nt |
rrneck |
Aug-09-10 11:08 AM |
#72 |
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Again, why? Nothing I say will be accepted anyway nt |
WolverineDG |
Aug-09-10 11:56 AM |
#73 |
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Does acceptance matter? |
rrneck |
Aug-09-10 12:02 PM |
#75 |
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Yes, it does |
WolverineDG |
Aug-09-10 12:15 PM |
#76 |
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Suit yourself. No hard feelings. |
rrneck |
Aug-09-10 12:20 PM |
#77 |
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No one's asking you to prove your beliefs. |
laconicsax |
Aug-09-10 07:27 PM |
#80 |
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Oh please stop being disingenuous |
WolverineDG |
Aug-09-10 07:37 PM |
#81 |
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You couldn't be further from the truth. |
laconicsax |
Aug-09-10 10:10 PM |
#82 |
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The evidence supports your pov. nt |
ironbark |
Aug-10-10 05:57 PM |
#88 |