Democratic Underground - According to the definitions they are almost one in the same

Reply #35: According to the definitions they are almost one in the same [View All]

MadMaddie

(1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore

Sat Jul-03-10 08:15 PM
Response to Original message

35. According to the definitions they are almost one in the same

I would add the following to Religion:

Religion is based on putting fear into the hearts of the common man - note I don't include the top 2%. Why because more oft than not the top 2% are the ones using religion to rule the common man.

Religion is a a tool.

re·li·gion (r-ljn)
n.
1.
a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
2. The life or condition of a person in a religious order.
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
4. A cause, principle, or activity pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion.

Fiction -
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fiction

fic·tion (fkshn)
n.
1.
a. An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
b. The act of inventing such a creation or pretense.
2. A lie.
3.
a. A literary work whose content is produced by the imagination and is not necessarily based on fact.
b. The category of literature comprising works of this kind, including novels and short stories.

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators

Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

-"There is a clear distinction between religion and fiction."	darkstar3	Jul-02-10 08:39 PM	#0
- Well, yes there is	Oregone	Jul-02-10 08:45 PM	#1
- No.	Commie Pinko Dirtbag	Jul-02-10 08:45 PM	#2
- Exactly!	cleanhippie	Jul-04-10 12:26 PM	#51
- You left out the part about motivating the killing non-believers!	TheDebbieDee	Jul-02-10 08:50 PM	#3
- Funny,	darkstar3	Jul-02-10 11:23 PM	#20
- If someone can get rich convincing people it's true, it's a religion.	baldguy	Jul-02-10 08:53 PM	#4
- ...by which definition, "free market" economics	Jackpine Radical	Jul-02-10 09:01 PM	#5
- Yep, that's the bottom line, isn't it... we sure see evidence of that over and over. n/t	RKP5637	Jul-02-10 09:04 PM	#7
- IMO religion is often based on real people and events whereas fiction is not.	RKP5637	Jul-02-10 09:03 PM	#6
- So you think there was a historical Jesus?	Goblinmonger	Jul-02-10 09:38 PM	#8
- Do you think he was invented?	rug	Jul-02-10 09:47 PM	#9
- Yep	Goblinmonger	Jul-02-10 09:55 PM	#11
- Why? And by whom?	rug	Jul-02-10 10:00 PM	#12
- I replied above	cleanhippie	Jul-04-10 12:29 PM	#54
- The Jesus Mysteries offers one possible answer (though we don't know the answer to either question)	BurtWorm	Jul-05-10 06:17 PM	#88
- Thanks, I had forgotten about that book.	rug	Jul-05-10 07:00 PM	#92
- Interesting. Sounds just a plausible (if not more so) than any other explanation I've heard.	cleanhippie	Jul-05-10 07:45 PM	#95
- You know, I'm not sure anymore if Jesus was real or not.........	TheDebbieDee	Jul-06-10 01:27 AM	#130
- To Ulysses??	Beartracks	Jul-02-10 10:08 PM	#13
- Sure he was.	cleanhippie	Jul-04-10 12:28 PM	#53
- So, who invented him, and why?	rug	Jul-04-10 04:55 PM	#61
- I have no idea who first came up with that type of character	cleanhippie	Jul-04-10 06:24 PM	#63
- Ignorance does not explain a first century invention.	rug	Jul-04-10 06:30 PM	#64
- Sure it does.	cleanhippie	Jul-05-10 10:21 AM	#69
- Study up on early Christianity.	rug	Jul-05-10 12:41 PM	#70
- The christ-like figure was around long before "christ" was invented.	cleanhippie	Jul-05-10 12:59 PM	#71
- The question is not about a "christ-like" figure in the foggy mists of time.	rug	Jul-05-10 01:12 PM	#72
- As I stated before, i do not know.	cleanhippie	Jul-05-10 01:52 PM	#73
- The why hasn't been answered.	rug	Jul-05-10 02:00 PM	#74
- Well, we can just disagree then.	cleanhippie	Jul-05-10 02:14 PM	#75
- You may not think he's an invention,	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 02:21 PM	#76
- So, you believe in Palestine, in the mid to late first century C.E.,	rug	Jul-05-10 02:51 PM	#78
- First off, it's a hypothesis, not a theory,	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 03:47 PM	#79
- So the purported lack of historical evidence supports the hypothesis he did not exist.	rug	Jul-05-10 04:06 PM	#80
- I disagree,	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 04:09 PM	#81
- Read closely the history of Palestine and Rome between 30 CE and 100 CE.	rug	Jul-05-10 04:15 PM	#83
- Are you claiming that the books of the Bible ARE	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 04:32 PM	#85
- Not at all. Don't you think the work of William Shirer is self-evidently non-fiction?	rug	Jul-05-10 05:21 PM	#86
- I don't think anything can be self-evidently non-fiction.	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 05:41 PM	#87
- After following (or trying to) your posts, they are anything but clear.	cleanhippie	Jul-05-10 07:43 PM	#94
- A noble effort	skepticscott	Jul-05-10 08:17 PM	#96
- That's an intelligent statement.	rug	Jul-05-10 08:56 PM	#102
- You find asking why you believe Jesus was invented is strange?	rug	Jul-05-10 08:49 PM	#99
- Then show us the self-evident difference between fiction and Scientology.	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 08:54 PM	#100
- Fiction does not involve a series of practices and E-meters.	rug	Jul-05-10 08:59 PM	#103
- Considering those practices are based on fiction, and the E-meters themselves	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 09:03 PM	#104
- It does if you don't have a two dimensional view of religion.	rug	Jul-05-10 09:06 PM	#105
- So Dianetics is less fictional than Moby Dick?	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 09:10 PM	#106
- And I don't buy the bullshit you believe they're the same.	rug	Jul-05-10 09:12 PM	#107
- You're telling me you actually think that	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 09:13 PM	#108
- I'm telling you not even you believe they're the same.	rug	Jul-05-10 09:17 PM	#109
- And now you're guessing,	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 09:21 PM	#110
- Unless you're obstinately ignorant, it's not a guess.	rug	Jul-05-10 09:22 PM	#111
- Namecalling and diversion will get you nowhere.	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 09:25 PM	#112
- I thought it was "us".	rug	Jul-05-10 09:25 PM	#113
- More diversion.	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 09:26 PM	#114
- Nice namecalling.	rug	Jul-05-10 09:28 PM	#116
- What's good for the goose.	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 09:31 PM	#117
- I don't answer stupid questions, especially insincere stupid questions.	rug	Jul-05-10 09:32 PM	#118
- Correction:	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 09:35 PM	#119
- See 114 for rulebreaking	rug	Jul-05-10 09:39 PM	#121
- Your dismissal, or attempt at such, is noted, but	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 10:09 PM	#123
- #88	BurtWorm	Jul-05-10 06:19 PM	#90
- See #88 for a possible answer.	BurtWorm	Jul-05-10 06:19 PM	#89
- yes, I think there is a basis for his existence. n/t	RKP5637	Jul-02-10 10:54 PM	#17
- I find it unlikely that most religious stories are based on anything factual.	ChadwickHenryWard	Jul-02-10 10:55 PM	#18
- Thanks for adding this. I was too brief. I agree with what you've said. Thanks! n/t	RKP5637	Jul-03-10 07:32 AM	#28
- Couple of others, stolen for the Buy-bull	onager	Jul-04-10 11:36 AM	#49
- I would say	darkstar3	Jul-02-10 11:36 PM	#22
- Excellent points! I was speaking mostly of Christianity. Thanks for clarifying! n/t	RKP5637	Jul-03-10 07:30 AM	#27
- But that seems to be the problem.	cleanhippie	Jul-04-10 12:27 PM	#52
- Explain historical fiction then?	Cleobulus	Jul-05-10 08:42 PM	#97
- Then take the most recent major living religion and apply critical thinking/examination.	ironbark	Jul-02-10 09:52 PM	#10
- Both require the suspension of disbelief. nt	rrneck	Jul-02-10 10:16 PM	#14
- IMO there is science/mathematics and all else is fiction. n/t	jody	Jul-02-10 10:18 PM	#15
- I think religion is intended to be believed, while fiction is not.	ChadwickHenryWard	Jul-02-10 10:44 PM	#16
- Christianity is clearly history based, i.e. life of one Jesus, but other religions are based on	jody	Jul-02-10 11:14 PM	#19
- Clearly?	darkstar3	Jul-02-10 11:29 PM	#21
- Understand but it's still history or claimed history as opposed to other religions that are based on	jody	Jul-02-10 11:37 PM	#23
- Hmm...	darkstar3	Jul-03-10 12:01 AM	#24
- Uhm, quite a few religions, from what I've read of them, are based on some type of events...	Cleobulus	Jul-03-10 01:38 AM	#25
- The jury is out on how history- based Christianity actually is.	BurtWorm	Jul-04-10 09:42 AM	#44
- In #23 I qualified my earlier statement as history or claimed history. n/t	jody	Jul-04-10 10:23 AM	#46
- I think there is still a lot of debate about that.	cleanhippie	Jul-04-10 12:31 PM	#55
- agreed!	crumb77	Jul-03-10 02:13 AM	#26
- Your beliefs are fiction. Mine are religion.	trotsky	Jul-03-10 07:56 AM	#29
- Orthodoxy is my doxy. Heterodoxy is your doxy.	Iggo	Jul-03-10 04:43 PM	#31
- Nice trick!	cleanhippie	Jul-04-10 12:33 PM	#56
- Well, there is a clear distinction between	skepticscott	Jul-03-10 08:00 AM	#30
- Is there?	darkstar3	Jul-04-10 12:45 AM	#40
- Well, I guess it depends on how you're using the term "fiction"	skepticscott	Jul-04-10 09:14 AM	#43
- A story that is untrue. That is what I mean.	darkstar3	Jul-04-10 02:40 PM	#60
- It's not quite that simple	skepticscott	Jul-04-10 09:09 PM	#67
- I am, at the moment, unconcerned with the reception of the story,	darkstar3	Jul-04-10 11:14 PM	#68
- Well, you'd be hard pressed to find many fictional	skepticscott	Jul-05-10 04:12 PM	#82
- Elaborate please.	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 04:18 PM	#84
- What I mean is that	skepticscott	Jul-05-10 06:42 PM	#91
- True,	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 07:21 PM	#93
- There you go changing the subject back to the OP.	laconicsax	Jul-07-10 04:32 PM	#140
- (I know, I was looking for something banal that had a following.)	darkstar3	Jul-07-10 05:03 PM	#141
- If you mean you can't find a bible of any faith in the Fiction section	RagAss	Jul-03-10 06:14 PM	#32
- Clearly you've never visited a bookstore after me.	darkstar3	Jul-04-10 12:46 AM	#41
- LOL !!!	RagAss	Jul-04-10 08:50 AM	#42
- a religion is, or can be, more than just a mythology	unblock	Jul-03-10 06:42 PM	#33
- You raise a very interesting point,	darkstar3	Jul-03-10 09:30 PM	#36
- i think you may be mistaking the origin of the traditions	unblock	Jul-03-10 11:45 PM	#37
- Contradicting your belief does not constitute a mistake on my part.	darkstar3	Jul-04-10 12:32 AM	#39
- my point is that the customs might have predated the explanation	unblock	Jul-04-10 10:48 AM	#48
- I don't agree with your belief in how these traditions arose.	darkstar3	Jul-04-10 02:29 PM	#58
- Are you sure the thirteen tribes are not a fiction?	BurtWorm	Jul-04-10 09:48 AM	#45
- i'm not sure of much of anything that far back, especially when religion can shroud the truth	unblock	Jul-04-10 10:41 AM	#47
- I think there may be some truth in your view of how rites come to be.	BurtWorm	Jul-05-10 02:27 PM	#77
- The proponent of a fiction does not believe it to be true. N.T.	Donald Ian Rankin	Jul-03-10 08:14 PM	#34
- According to the definitions they are almost one in the same	MadMaddie	Jul-03-10 08:15 PM	#35
- Religion and fiction are spelled and pronounced completely differently from one another. nt	ZombieHorde	Jul-04-10 12:12 AM	#38
- This makes the assumption that there IS a clear distinction.	cleanhippie	Jul-04-10 12:25 PM	#50
- Fiction, although often influenced by other's stories......	DeSwiss	Jul-04-10 12:35 PM	#57
- Clearly you've never read Eragon,	darkstar3	Jul-04-10 02:31 PM	#59
- Snap!	laconicsax	Jul-04-10 06:50 PM	#65
- Clearly. n/t	DeSwiss	Jul-04-10 08:24 PM	#66
- Are you saying that the author is not original	ChadwickHenryWard	Jul-05-10 09:36 PM	#120
- I'm not sure I understand what you're asking.	DeSwiss	Jul-05-10 09:55 PM	#122
- I got your point.	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 10:11 PM	#125
- No problemo.	DeSwiss	Jul-05-10 10:36 PM	#126
- You're not missing much. :)	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 10:39 PM	#127
- Firefly has the same internal logic as the Star Wars prequels	laconicsax	Jul-07-10 01:51 AM	#136
- Everyone's a critic...	darkstar3	Jul-07-10 12:53 PM	#137
- Might as well have it here.	laconicsax	Jul-07-10 02:15 PM	#138
- .	darkstar3	Jul-07-10 04:07 PM	#139
- What's to misunderstand?	ChadwickHenryWard	Jul-06-10 10:08 PM	#135
- I was saying that the authors were unoriginal. Incredibly so.	darkstar3	Jul-05-10 10:10 PM	#124
- Eh, not really...	Cleobulus	Jul-05-10 08:47 PM	#98
- It's a great debate question but for my part, I don't	saltpoint	Jul-04-10 05:38 PM	#62
- The problem you mention with religions is that they didn't have a single narrator...	Cleobulus	Jul-05-10 08:55 PM	#101
- Yes. Not to slam the authors of the gospels for	saltpoint	Jul-05-10 09:28 PM	#115
- They're may be varying degrees of realism...	Silent3	Jul-05-10 10:55 PM	#128
- We can delineate the fictional character but have	saltpoint	Jul-06-10 12:05 AM	#129
- "Putting forth a point of view" has nothing to do with whether...	Silent3	Jul-06-10 06:25 AM	#131
- I'd say point of view is inherent in an author's	saltpoint	Jul-06-10 07:48 AM	#132
- Is that just an additional point you wanted to add...	Silent3	Jul-06-10 08:28 AM	#133
- I think we're very close on the question in the original	saltpoint	Jul-06-10 08:31 AM	#134

Reply #35: According to the definitions they are almost one in the same [View All]