ironbark
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Mon Jun-21-10 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #56 |
| 88. If a man on roller-skates believes he’s driving a BMW we “take his word for it”? |
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“If a man says he believes in a different god than Muslims do, you can only take his word for it.”
We can “only take his word” that he holds that “belief”. There is no requirement whatsoever to accept that his ‘belief’ is true in any sense.
“People get to define what their own beliefs are.”
Sure they do. That doesn’t mean that their beliefs are in any way accurate or reflective of the truth....or not simply 'whacko'.
A Christian/fundamentalist may reject the notion of Allah or even oppose it as Antichrist…that does not change, remove or negate the potential reality of the god of Judaism being the same as the god of Christianity and the same as the god of Islam.
“Fundamentalist whackos these people might be, but you don't get to dictate, in your omniscience…”
Sal didn’t “dictate” anything….she just rejected the pov presented and deemed it whacko and pointed out how this fringe/whacko pov is often reflected here - “The Christian, Muslim, and Jewish God are one and the same. I've heard your opinion before.....from fundamentalist whackos.”
The problem for the aligned pov of Atheists and fundamentalist Christians on this issue of difference/distinction/separation of god/s is that the rest of the world (religious, academic, common man) has moved on. Islam has always recognised ‘The People of The Book’ (Jews,Christians.Islam) as worshiping the same god. The major Christian denominations (Catholic and Anglican) have come to the same conclusion. Courses in Comparative Religion, History, Theology and Religious History have also come to recognise the deep commonalities rather than the superficial differences. Most importantly…the average Joe of >any< denomination or persuasion is far more likely to recognise same god/common religious ground or tolerate difference than in the past.
The minority holdout fundamentalists of all persuasions who insist on division/opposition are increasingly loosing ground and are rendered irrelevant.
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| -A very interesting article on the reasons people believe in a god |
hyphenate |
Jun-17-10 10:55 PM |
#0 |
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I've lived without it for 40 years. |
snot |
Jun-17-10 11:00 PM |
#1 |
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living ethically, yeah, that is interesting. Most agnostics/athestist/deists I know are more ethical |
havocmom |
Jun-17-10 11:05 PM |
#2 |
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The world's religions are many and varied and have around for thousands of years, |
elocs |
Jun-17-10 11:21 PM |
#3 |
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Yet atheism has been around just as long, if not longer. |
laconicsax |
Jun-17-10 11:27 PM |
#4 |
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Indeed, and every Christian is an atheist w.r.t. Allah, for instance. n/t |
trotsky |
Jun-18-10 06:48 AM |
#16 |
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Well, considering they're one and the same.... |
Sal316 |
Jun-18-10 11:01 AM |
#28 |
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Yes, most Christians are atheists wrt to Ganesh. Allah, not so much. nt |
GliderGuider |
Jun-18-10 11:52 AM |
#31 |
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Sure they're the same, Sal. |
trotsky |
Jun-18-10 01:33 PM |
#33 |
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I always froget which one is the holy ghost. |
BurtWorm |
Jun-18-10 04:07 PM |
#41 |
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THEY'RE ONE AND THE SAME ALLAHDAMMIT! |
trotsky |
Jun-18-10 04:52 PM |
#42 |
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Again, according to the fundies |
hyphenate |
Jun-18-10 10:46 PM |
#55 |
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Yup they are. |
Sal316 |
Jun-18-10 08:38 PM |
#48 |
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Yeah, about the same as tooth fairy science. |
trotsky |
Jun-18-10 09:42 PM |
#52 |
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Same. |
Sal316 |
Jun-18-10 11:56 PM |
#57 |
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Different. |
trotsky |
Jun-19-10 07:32 AM |
#63 |
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I wonder if El, chief god of the ancient Canaanites, is one and the same |
uberllama42 |
Jun-19-10 10:03 PM |
#77 |
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By the criteria of authenticity established in Christianity/Islam the answer is “no”. |
ironbark |
Jun-21-10 02:37 AM |
#87 |
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That seems to be a different criterion than what the other poster was using |
uberllama42 |
Jun-21-10 04:04 AM |
#90 |
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A rose by any other name? |
ironbark |
Jun-21-10 05:00 AM |
#92 |
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self delete |
ironbark |
Jun-21-10 05:00 AM |
#93 |
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‘Different’ things?. |
ironbark |
Jun-21-10 02:32 AM |
#86 |
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Too bad for you, that concept cuts both ways. |
laconicsax |
Jun-19-10 11:23 PM |
#78 |
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You probably forgot |
skepticscott |
Jun-18-10 08:16 PM |
#46 |
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No, I didn't... |
Sal316 |
Jun-18-10 08:48 PM |
#49 |
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Ah, but it was YOUR "gotcha" that started this little detour. |
trotsky |
Jun-18-10 09:46 PM |
#53 |
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And I realize that theological name dropping |
skepticscott |
Jun-19-10 06:57 AM |
#61 |
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So wait, you worship the head of the Canaanite religion? n/t |
Cleobulus |
Jun-19-10 01:29 PM |
#68 |
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According to my ex-friend, now-fundie |
hyphenate |
Jun-18-10 10:42 PM |
#54 |
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Who are you to tell fundamentalists what god they believe in? |
uberllama42 |
Jun-18-10 11:33 PM |
#56 |
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Ummm....because there's these little things..... |
Sal316 |
Jun-19-10 12:02 AM |
#58 |
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Enlighten me, please |
uberllama42 |
Jun-19-10 01:27 AM |
#59 |
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If a man on roller-skates believes he’s driving a BMW we “take his word for it”? |
ironbark |
Jun-21-10 03:17 AM |
#88 |
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they're one and the same.... |
rrneck |
Jun-19-10 08:37 PM |
#73 |
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“How so?”……Just for fun…try to imagine…. |
ironbark |
Jun-21-10 03:46 AM |
#89 |
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It would appear |
rrneck |
Jun-21-10 11:35 AM |
#94 |
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"Faith" is the real enemy, not god... |
NeoGreen |
Jun-17-10 11:35 PM |
#5 |
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Faith also allows you to climb tall mountains |
Nostradammit |
Jun-18-10 02:09 AM |
#9 |
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You're playing semantic games. |
laconicsax |
Jun-18-10 02:33 AM |
#10 |
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All right, how about this - |
Nostradammit |
Jun-18-10 02:55 AM |
#11 |
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I think laconicsax only recognizes and accepts his own personal definition of "faith," |
struggle4progress |
Jun-18-10 04:37 AM |
#13 |
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Read and learn. |
trotsky |
Jun-18-10 06:42 AM |
#14 |
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oh dear |
struggle4progress |
Jun-18-10 08:36 AM |
#19 |
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Well, once of us is certainly confused about the fallacy of equivocation, I'll give you that. n/t |
trotsky |
Jun-18-10 08:46 AM |
#21 |
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So you think when they put the first astronauts into outer space |
Goblinmonger |
Jun-18-10 07:53 AM |
#17 |
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No, but they had faith that they would be able to surmount the logistical |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-18-10 08:46 AM |
#20 |
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Why are you substituting |
skepticscott |
Jun-18-10 03:37 PM |
#38 |
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How do you know how it's used by all religious people? |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-18-10 08:03 PM |
#44 |
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More intellectual bullshit |
skepticscott |
Jun-18-10 08:26 PM |
#47 |
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When people say they have a deep and abiding faith, they're speaking |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-18-10 09:09 PM |
#51 |
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Then why does EVERY |
skepticscott |
Jun-19-10 01:18 PM |
#66 |
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Not open to change, discussion, or interpretation? |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-19-10 07:26 PM |
#70 |
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Some denominations |
skepticscott |
Jun-19-10 07:51 PM |
#71 |
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You really think that people join churches because they like this laundry list |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-19-10 09:34 PM |
#75 |
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How about... |
PassingFair |
Jun-18-10 08:13 AM |
#18 |
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My "personal definition" is actually quite common. |
laconicsax |
Jun-18-10 01:56 PM |
#35 |
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I wasn't meant to be a direct answer to what... |
NeoGreen |
Jun-18-10 11:53 AM |
#32 |
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No…’Faith’ as “prime motivations” for 9/11 can be “denied”. |
ironbark |
Jun-21-10 04:40 AM |
#91 |
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That's fine. |
laconicsax |
Jun-18-10 01:47 PM |
#34 |
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I do not need Faith to have a profound... |
NeoGreen |
Jun-18-10 11:49 AM |
#30 |
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Religious beliefs are obviously not about what happens after we die? |
laconicsax |
Jun-17-10 11:58 PM |
#6 |
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In a classic work, Durkheim defined religion as distinguishing the sacred from the profane |
struggle4progress |
Jun-18-10 04:08 AM |
#12 |
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Where did I say that "Everybody who doesn't agree with me is a superstitious moron"? |
laconicsax |
Jun-18-10 02:13 PM |
#36 |
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Have you suddenly changed your views? I have no trouble finding posts of yours |
struggle4progress |
Jun-19-10 07:21 AM |
#62 |
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So you admit to misrepresentingy words. |
laconicsax |
Jun-19-10 11:45 PM |
#79 |
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Do you ever make any other argument |
skepticscott |
Jun-18-10 03:40 PM |
#39 |
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Sometimes I wonder if he's actually read the works he mentions... |
laconicsax |
Jun-20-10 09:24 PM |
#85 |
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For a lot of people, a belief in an after-life is an important coping mechanism |
Old and In the Way |
Jun-18-10 12:24 AM |
#7 |
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Sorry, I stumbled when |
Grey |
Jun-18-10 12:57 AM |
#8 |
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A majority of Americans do not accept evolution. |
trotsky |
Jun-18-10 06:46 AM |
#15 |
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That's the result of bad science education and the |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-18-10 08:57 AM |
#23 |
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But the myth originates in, and is perpetuated by, the Christian religion. |
trotsky |
Jun-18-10 08:59 AM |
#24 |
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A certain KIND of Christianity promulgates Creationism |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-18-10 09:06 AM |
#25 |
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Yes, a very, very common kind. FAR more common than the variety you subscribe to, Lydia. |
trotsky |
Jun-18-10 09:23 AM |
#26 |
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They Sure Are |
arKansasJHawk |
Jun-20-10 12:54 AM |
#80 |
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Polls consistently show that |
skepticscott |
Jun-18-10 03:36 PM |
#37 |
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It's not like biblical literalism is relegated solely to creationism. |
Zhade |
Jun-20-10 01:49 AM |
#82 |
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You blame things on "bad science education" |
skepticscott |
Jun-18-10 03:44 PM |
#40 |
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And the fundies didn't take over the school systems by themselves |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-18-10 07:18 PM |
#43 |
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So what does all of that |
skepticscott |
Jun-18-10 08:13 PM |
#45 |
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They did it because of their religion but they didn't start |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-18-10 09:05 PM |
#50 |
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Again, none of which has anything to do with |
skepticscott |
Jun-19-10 01:22 PM |
#67 |
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I never said fundamentalism wasn't to blame |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-19-10 07:22 PM |
#69 |
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Here's exactly what you said |
skepticscott |
Jun-19-10 07:58 PM |
#72 |
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The political purpose is to raise up a cadre of youth |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-19-10 09:21 PM |
#74 |
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You admitted to the influence |
skepticscott |
Jun-20-10 06:35 AM |
#83 |
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I think you're arguing for the sake of arguing here |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-20-10 04:53 PM |
#84 |
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Some points from this article I really can relate to: |
raccoon |
Jun-18-10 08:56 AM |
#22 |
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The idea that most, or even many, believers have nuanced theological notions is false |
dmallind |
Jun-18-10 10:49 AM |
#27 |
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What bothers me about it is that the same people who chide Dawkins et al. |
uberllama42 |
Jun-19-10 03:17 AM |
#60 |
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Why call it god, then? |
BurtWorm |
Jun-18-10 11:04 AM |
#29 |
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The age of the earth looks pretty old to me. Scientists of many stripes |
saltpoint |
Jun-19-10 08:05 AM |
#64 |
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Visitors are no longer allowed in the actual caves |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Jun-19-10 09:37 PM |
#76 |
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Lydia Leftcoast, hello to you. |
saltpoint |
Jun-20-10 01:23 AM |
#81 |
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Evolution and religion |
mothergooseminute |
Jun-19-10 09:05 AM |
#65 |