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Sal316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-13-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #76
96. Well, sorta.
There's some foundational things everyone agrees they say, the devil's in the details.

It's quite a shame that doctrine divides like it does.
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  -Why are religious beliefs given automatic respect without merit? Cleobulus  Jun-12-10 06:21 AM   #0 
  - more arrogant? hmmmmm  DrDan   Jun-12-10 06:47 AM   #1 
  - If this were a conversation where I was denigrating flat-Earther beliefs...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 07:16 AM   #4 
  - Here is what I mean. Try to make make it appear as "thinking" = but I find it arrogant - and I am a  DrDan   Jun-12-10 07:29 AM   #7 
     - So pointing out how moderate Christians create their beliefs...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 07:55 AM   #9 
        - "telling those who have bigoted beliefs that they are bigoted"  DrDan   Jun-12-10 08:22 AM   #14 
        - Uhm, because they are? Really, don't be this obtuse. n/t  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 08:30 AM   #18 
        - Because in order to defeat bigotry, you have to on one level, confront it, strongly...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 09:05 AM   #23 
        - Should we all be quiet on the subjects of racism, sexism, and homophobia?  ZombieHorde   Jun-12-10 12:10 PM   #43 
           - no - but should we attack those that hold personal religious beliefs?  DrDan   Jun-12-10 12:25 PM   #47 
              - If they can't take it, then they aren't what they claim to be, i.e. they are liars. Why should we  patrice   Jun-12-10 12:53 PM   #52 
              - why should anyone haved to "take it"  DrDan   Jun-12-10 12:56 PM   #53 
                 - Because if they are real/true, they CAN and in so doing error is expurgated and truth  patrice   Jun-12-10 02:07 PM   #65 
                 - you say all this assuming there is ONE truth . . . and therefore only  DrDan   Jun-12-10 02:24 PM   #67 
                 - Because believing something is not sufficient to make it real/true & when you claim ultimate Truth  patrice   Jun-12-10 02:12 PM   #66 
              - If evidence is offered for something,  ZombieHorde   Jun-12-10 01:47 PM   #61 
                 - and we both know that will end with diverging views as to its validity  DrDan   Jun-12-10 02:43 PM   #68 
                    - I am not so sure. More and more people in the US are claiming to be nonreligious.  ZombieHorde   Jun-12-10 06:15 PM   #73 
        - If that's arrogance then fuck it, I'm arrogant.  jgraz   Jun-12-10 12:15 PM   #45 
           - it's funny how one would expect tolerance from those posting on a liberal/progressive site  DrDan   Jun-12-10 12:28 PM   #48 
              - Don't confuse tolerance with acting like a sheep  jgraz   Jun-12-10 12:33 PM   #49 
              - certainly agree that one's religious belief's should not interfer with the lives of others  DrDan   Jun-12-10 12:46 PM   #51 
                 - What you're seeing is a response to having those beliefs forced on us for years  jgraz   Jun-12-10 12:57 PM   #54 
                 - You are right, true Liberals must demonstrate respect, but you can't respect that about  patrice   Jun-12-10 01:10 PM   #56 
                    - no it isn't. respect doesn't mean bludgeoning people with your  roguevalley   Jun-12-10 10:28 PM   #80 
                       - exactly  DrDan   Jun-13-10 08:47 AM   #90 
              - People have tolerance for that which demonstrates it's own integrity. Belief systems  patrice   Jun-12-10 01:02 PM   #55 
              - When someone uses the Christian Holy Bible as evidence gay people are evil,  ZombieHorde   Jun-12-10 09:12 PM   #77 
              - self-removed  DrDan   Jun-13-10 07:57 AM   #88 
                 - Nihilist! ;) nt  ZombieHorde   Jun-13-10 12:49 PM   #104 
                    - I'm no nihilist!!!! I just don't see any point in any of it.  DrDan   Jun-13-10 05:04 PM   #108 
                       - There may be no point for you, but there is a point for many of us.  ZombieHorde   Jun-14-10 12:26 AM   #111 
                          - that was a joke  DrDan   Jun-14-10 05:31 AM   #112 
                             - Silly me. Good joke. nt  ZombieHorde   Jun-14-10 09:48 AM   #115 
                                - thanks  DrDan   Jun-14-10 10:29 AM   #116 
              - Why should I tolerate BS?  Odin2005   Jun-13-10 04:00 PM   #106 
  - Lol.  rug   Jun-12-10 08:19 AM   #13 
  - I am not a believer - but I do find it arrogant that other non-believers  DrDan   Jun-12-10 08:27 AM   #15 
     - Arrogance transforms discussion into pie fights.  rug   Jun-12-10 08:30 AM   #17 
     - There is a point in time when we should not be afraid to tell people when they are wrong...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 09:10 AM   #25 
     - OK. that time has come. You are wrong.  MineralMan   Jun-12-10 10:07 AM   #33 
     - Which generalized statements are wrong? n/t  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 10:46 AM   #37 
        - Start with the title of your OP?  MineralMan   Jun-12-10 11:00 AM   #39 
           - The only examples are small and isolated...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 11:26 AM   #41 
           - Hmm...lots of daycares have gotten into trouble for sexual  MineralMan   Jun-12-10 11:31 AM   #42 
           - Most religions don't hold that place, that is true, and of course...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 12:15 PM   #44 
           - I am in Elder Care, I think there are some very practical reasons to challenge belief structures  patrice   Jun-12-10 01:26 PM   #59 
           - Obama is a believer. Ghandi. Nelson Mandela. I can go on and  roguevalley   Jun-12-10 10:31 PM   #82 
              - I'd be happy to, here's an example of one of Obama's religious beliefs...  Cleobulus   Jun-13-10 07:50 AM   #86 
     - If it comes up in discussion, have one. But to tell someone they  roguevalley   Jun-12-10 10:30 PM   #81 
        - I'm not saying go door to door with the message "preaching" Atheism, as it were...  Cleobulus   Jun-13-10 08:54 AM   #92 
     - Real believers would not perceive "superiority". Non-believers who feel  patrice   Jun-12-10 01:20 PM   #58 
     - freedom from primitive superstition IS superior than belief in it.  Odin2005   Jun-13-10 04:01 PM   #107 
        - you make my point for me . . . thank you  DrDan   Jun-14-10 05:33 AM   #113 
  - Could you help me out? Maybe I just don't understand well enough, would you  patrice   Jun-12-10 12:43 PM   #50 
     - sure  DrDan   Jun-13-10 06:13 PM   #110 
  - How do you measure "automatic moderation?" Is it evolutionarily maladaptive?  HereSince1628   Jun-12-10 06:48 AM   #2 
  - Its culture reinforcement. n/t  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 07:17 AM   #5 
     - Sadly devoid of information, that. n/t  HereSince1628   Jun-12-10 08:36 AM   #20 
  - Yes, I've had the same conversations.  donco6   Jun-12-10 07:02 AM   #3 
  - Exactly like that, or even worse...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 07:20 AM   #6 
  - Cloaks upon cloaks.  donco6   Jun-12-10 07:34 AM   #8 
     - I'd have less of a problem with the picking and choosing if they admitted it themselves...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 07:58 AM   #10 
  - given that all demoninations don't discriminate against gays it would  roguevalley   Jun-12-10 10:38 PM   #83 
  - Deleted message  Name removed   Jun-12-10 08:01 AM   #11 
  - Interesting assertion, now prove it...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 08:04 AM   #12 
  - Prove it.  laconicsax   Jun-12-10 05:36 PM   #71 
  - You might want to climb off that cross  Goblinmonger   Jun-12-10 09:19 PM   #78 
  - So all religious and or spiritual people are arrogant?  leftofcool   Jun-12-10 08:29 AM   #16 
  - I expect that my beliefs will rise or fall in an argument on their own merits...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 09:07 AM   #24 
  - What is dangerous to our civilization is generalized lumping of  MineralMan   Jun-12-10 10:06 AM   #32 
     - bravo, mineralman!  roguevalley   Jun-12-10 10:41 PM   #84 
  - 1+  patrice   Jun-12-10 01:39 PM   #60 
  - In answer to your question:  DeSwiss   Jun-12-10 08:33 AM   #19 
  - Ah, but that automatic respect is demanded for only CERTAIN religious beliefs.  trotsky   Jun-12-10 08:55 AM   #21 
  - Of course, religious people have absolutely no respect for those of different religions. n/t  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 09:03 AM   #22 
  - isn't that a bit of a generalization . . . .  DrDan   Jun-13-10 05:37 PM   #109 
  - Bingo.  tbyg52   Jun-12-10 09:32 AM   #28 
  - Great post! Especially the following:  raccoon   Jun-12-10 09:30 AM   #26 
  - People are entitled to their beliefs - it's called FREEDOM OF CONSCIENCE.  kestrel91316   Jun-12-10 09:31 AM   #27 
  - Nice attempt at deflection, but they are not entitled to their beliefs being protected from...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 09:35 AM   #29 
  - Oh, and another thing, people are entitled to their own beliefs, but not their own facts. n/t  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 09:41 AM   #30 
  - Really! Your point was just fine, until that last line in which you proove that you are the same as  patrice   Jun-12-10 01:49 PM   #63 
  - Why do you care what others believe?  MineralMan   Jun-12-10 10:04 AM   #31 
  - Generally speaking I would agree, however beliefs can lead to actions...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 10:16 AM   #34 
     - Ah, but you see, they do not necessarily lead to actions.  MineralMan   Jun-12-10 10:21 AM   #35 
        - Don't you at least agree that certain beliefs are detrimental because...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 10:38 AM   #36 
           - Of course I agree with that. But...that is not what you said when  MineralMan   Jun-12-10 10:57 AM   #38 
           - But I never said that, I said the Bible says that, and that many Christians...  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 11:17 AM   #40 
           - (Like the anti-Choice stance,incidentally) that is not Dogma. It is therefore not the Catholic  patrice   Jun-12-10 01:56 PM   #64 
              - Hmm, don't downplay that, to say its only the opinion of a faction within the Church...  Cleobulus   Jun-13-10 07:53 AM   #87 
  - BRAVO! +100000 n/t  Donnachaidh   Jun-12-10 12:17 PM   #46 
  - I posted what I thought was a funny picture a couple of days ago  notadmblnd   Jun-12-10 01:17 PM   #57 
  - Exactly the type of thing I'm talking about!  Cleobulus   Jun-12-10 01:47 PM   #62 
  - Here's the questions you need to ask yourself.  Sal316   Jun-12-10 02:56 PM   #69 
  - Have you asked yourself those questions?  laconicsax   Jun-12-10 05:42 PM   #72 
  - That kind of dialectic is a living opportunity for some approximation of truth. It is rare.  patrice   Jun-12-10 08:16 PM   #74 
  - Yes, I have.  Sal316   Jun-13-10 10:16 AM   #95 
  - Those with religious beliefs don't seem to agree with each other either. nt  ZombieHorde   Jun-12-10 09:06 PM   #76 
  - Well, sorta.  Sal316   Jun-13-10 10:17 AM   #96 
     - My stepfather used to tell me the world had enough religion  ZombieHorde   Jun-13-10 12:48 PM   #103 
     - What are these "foundational things everyone agrees on"?  trotsky   Jun-14-10 07:06 AM   #114 
  - Who are "they"?  Cleobulus   Jun-13-10 07:00 AM   #85 
     - "They" are anyone you think are wrong....  Sal316   Jun-13-10 10:21 AM   #97 
        - You made an assertion without evidence, name these foundational things...  Cleobulus   Jun-13-10 10:45 AM   #98 
  - It's quite a funny question, actually  blueworld   Jun-12-10 03:21 PM   #70 
  - Agreed. You can't expect to receive that which you do not give. Maybe  patrice   Jun-12-10 08:29 PM   #75 
  - yes - that's why 53% of the electorate would not vote for an otherwise qualified candidate  dmallind   Jun-12-10 09:28 PM   #79 
  - I dunno, I have a problem respecting Fred Phelps and his hate-filled crew.  trotsky   Jun-13-10 08:02 AM   #89 
     - not respecting it and actively demeaning and attacking those with differing views  DrDan   Jun-13-10 08:50 AM   #91 
        - You confuse two issues, attacking a person for their beliefs, and attacking the beliefs themselves.  Cleobulus   Jun-13-10 09:01 AM   #93 
        - ah . . . attack him for his actions . .. fully warranted  DrDan   Jun-13-10 11:02 AM   #99 
           - Again, why not, his beliefs lead him to his actions...  Cleobulus   Jun-13-10 11:15 AM   #101 
        - The other poster said, and I quote,  trotsky   Jun-13-10 09:22 AM   #94 
           - whatever . . . .  DrDan   Jun-13-10 11:03 AM   #100 
              - Oooh, you got me there.  trotsky   Jun-13-10 12:46 PM   #102 
  - Read Dan Dennett's book "Breaking the Spell"  Odin2005   Jun-13-10 03:56 PM   #105 
  - Religion never gets any respect from me...  and-justice-for-all   Jun-19-10 11:15 PM   #117 

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