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Reply #30: Those goalposts are already well on the move. [View All]

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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-07-10 07:11 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Those goalposts are already well on the move.
Fascinating. Would love to see some kind of documentation of these claims as well. Whatever you can provide.
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  -Question about written history and The Bible daggahead  Jun-07-10 12:41 PM   #0 
  - good question...  lost-in-nj   Jun-07-10 12:56 PM   #1 
  - There is only the account of Josephus, the official documentarian of Rome in Judea at the time  Taverner   Jun-07-10 01:02 PM   #2 
  - You raise an interesting point....  Deep13   Jun-07-10 01:04 PM   #3 
  - It had just dawned on me the other day ...  daggahead   Jun-07-10 01:09 PM   #4 
     - Part of the problem is that the events Matthew cites ...  Deep13   Jun-07-10 01:20 PM   #6 
  - he's mentioned twice (?) in the works of Josephus  Schema Thing   Jun-07-10 01:12 PM   #5 
  - "Thought by some"?  Goblinmonger   Jun-07-10 01:23 PM   #8 
  - Josephus 37-100 c.e.  Deep13   Jun-07-10 01:23 PM   #9 
  - If there was a Jesus, he was a purely Jewish problem, not a Roman one,  Rabrrrrrr   Jun-07-10 01:22 PM   #7 
     - The events the NT describes would have been obvious to anyone.  Deep13   Jun-07-10 01:32 PM   #10 
     - That is precisely the kind of writing that tends not to survive  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-07-10 01:51 PM   #12 
     - Only of interest to Lazarus' neighbors and family?  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 02:16 PM   #15 
     - The Romans investigating it?  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-07-10 03:30 PM   #17 
     - Why would Rome care what a bunch of animal Jew peasants said?  Rabrrrrrr   Jun-07-10 03:42 PM   #18 
     - To both of you:  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 05:44 PM   #25 
        - C'mon, darkstar3, you know very well the answer to this.  trotsky   Jun-07-10 07:15 PM   #31 
           - I know that, and YOU know that...n/t  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 11:02 PM   #38 
     - Still, it's a lack of evidence.  Deep13   Jun-07-10 03:53 PM   #21 
     - Leaving aside theology, and considering only the historical issues about culture,  struggle4progress   Jun-07-10 03:23 PM   #16 
        - Well, I think enough people might take it seriously to at least...  Deep13   Jun-07-10 03:50 PM   #20 
           - But there are class issues here. The Romans had a colony there;  struggle4progress   Jun-07-10 04:23 PM   #23 
           - All that is true. Pretty much an "Exhibit A" in proving the evil of imperialism.  Deep13   Jun-07-10 07:23 PM   #32 
           - They didn't have newspapers, TV, magazines, or any of the other mass media that we have  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-07-10 04:24 PM   #24 
              - That's all terribly convenient.  LAGC   Jun-07-10 05:55 PM   #27 
              - You took my next move,  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 06:02 PM   #28 
              - That's probably true. Still, THIS rumor didn't...  Deep13   Jun-07-10 07:07 PM   #29 
     - Now one can say that the martyrs outside Judea were merely deluded  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-07-10 01:44 PM   #11 
        - Specious.  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 02:10 PM   #13 
        - And what about the "founders" of the movement?  trotsky   Jun-07-10 02:13 PM   #14 
        - What is your source for the claim  Dogtown   Jun-07-10 03:44 PM   #19 
           - No, they were persecuted for refusing to burn incense before statues of the emperor or  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-07-10 04:22 PM   #22 
              - And where is your source for this information.  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 05:47 PM   #26 
              - A friend of mine whose specialty is late Roman history  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-07-10 09:15 PM   #33 
                 - And are the materials that your friend uses available for us to read?  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 09:24 PM   #34 
                    - Don't know--haven't looked  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-07-10 09:37 PM   #35 
                    - I have tried looking up your claims of early persecution before,  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 09:46 PM   #36 
                       - Do your own research if you really care--  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-07-10 10:59 PM   #37 
                          - Which is another way of saying you didn't do your own. n/t  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 11:07 PM   #39 
                          - Had to dig for some old text books....I remember spending a good part of a semester on  54anickel   Jun-08-10 12:16 AM   #42 
                             - Finally, someone names a book.  darkstar3   Jun-08-10 12:33 AM   #43 
                                - Hmmm, didn't cover that in class. Do you happen to have a source?  54anickel   Jun-08-10 01:07 AM   #44 
                                - Sure.  darkstar3   Jun-08-10 08:25 AM   #50 
                                - What original Roman manuscripts do you imagine remain? To survive,  struggle4progress   Jun-08-10 08:13 AM   #47 
                                - Now you see my problem.  darkstar3   Jun-08-10 08:23 AM   #49 
                                - If you only countenance such history as can be documented by  struggle4progress   Jun-08-10 09:24 PM   #58 
                                   - The subject of history IS sparse,  darkstar3   Jun-08-10 09:30 PM   #59 
                                - BTW:  darkstar3   Jun-08-10 10:20 AM   #56 
                                - It seems incoherent to complain Pliny was not printed until around 1500  struggle4progress   Jun-08-10 08:20 AM   #48 
                                   - Whether printed on a press or hand-written,  darkstar3   Jun-08-10 08:27 AM   #51 
                                      - So your assertions are just as unprovable as mine  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-08-10 09:46 AM   #53 
                                         - And what assertions would those be? n/t  darkstar3   Jun-08-10 09:48 AM   #54 
                                         - Nothing to say? I'm still waiting for an answer to my question. n/t  darkstar3   Jun-09-10 08:42 AM   #60 
                                            - Your assertion that there is no independent evidence of Jesus existing, so  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-09-10 09:42 AM   #61 
                                               - And where did you find that assertion? Please point to a post # that even implies such. n/t  darkstar3   Jun-09-10 10:06 AM   #62 
                                                  - Everything you've written since you first appeared in this forum  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-09-10 10:50 AM   #63 
                                                  - That is false, and a pathetic attempt at generalization.  darkstar3   Jun-09-10 11:52 AM   #64 
                    - Yes - any history book dealing with the Roman Empire of that time  Rabrrrrrr   Jun-08-10 12:00 AM   #40 
                       - Then it should be easy for you to show us a source.  darkstar3   Jun-08-10 12:13 AM   #41 
                       - Ah but we're not talking about early Christians. You're changing the subject.  trotsky   Jun-08-10 06:53 AM   #45 
              - Those goalposts are already well on the move.  trotsky   Jun-07-10 07:11 PM   #30 
              - Lighten up, Lydia.  Dogtown   Jun-08-10 07:35 AM   #46 
              - There are people on this forum who find the very idea of religion offensive,  Lydia Leftcoast   Jun-08-10 09:44 AM   #52 
                 - If you don't like what you're watching, change the channel.  darkstar3   Jun-08-10 10:12 AM   #55 
                 - "For years, I have insisted in this forum that religion is experiential, not intellectual"  trotsky   Jun-08-10 01:39 PM   #57 
                    - here's my take  AlecBGreen   Jun-11-10 01:01 PM   #66 
              - That's was never really a case of the Romans  skepticscott   Jun-10-10 05:56 PM   #65 

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