You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #89: Ok, don't answer. [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU
rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 10:12 PM
Response to Reply #88
89. Ok, don't answer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
  -A Theologian Objects to the Courtier's Reply Charge against Theology BurtWorm  May-28-10 01:12 PM   #0 
  - I like this.  patrice   May-28-10 01:25 PM   #1 
  - 50:50  darkstar3   May-28-10 01:45 PM   #5 
  - I like the way Steven King puts it in the Dark Tower series  AlecBGreen   Jun-01-10 09:14 PM   #44 
     - I think the point I was making  darkstar3   Jun-01-10 11:51 PM   #49 
  - So, back when people argued over the Earth or the Sun...  Silent3   May-28-10 01:47 PM   #6 
  - The only thing "perceptible" in religion.....  DeSwiss   May-28-10 07:02 PM   #13 
  - I look forward to your further posts  skepticscott   May-29-10 08:58 PM   #19 
  - PZ Myers rips this guy to shreds in the link you provided.  stopbush   May-28-10 01:32 PM   #2 
  - Mr. Reitan, Sir, is A Profoundly Silly Man  The Magistrate   May-28-10 01:37 PM   #3 
  - Atheists, however, don't claim "that the empirical world exhausts what is real".  Silent3   May-28-10 01:40 PM   #4 
  - atheists would say 'the empirical world exhausts what anyone can authoritatively claim is real'  BurtWorm   May-28-10 02:08 PM   #7 
  - I'm glad I followed the Pharyngula link.  Silent3   May-28-10 02:33 PM   #8 
  - It is A Very Good Read, Sir  The Magistrate   May-28-10 02:38 PM   #9 
     - Makes me wonder if the universe...  Silent3   May-28-10 03:02 PM   #10 
  - I should clarify something about the Courtier's Reply.  BurtWorm   May-28-10 04:50 PM   #11 
  - Here's PZ Myer's original Courtier's Reply, in case anyone is interested:  stopbush   May-28-10 06:20 PM   #12 
  - I would contrast PZ's POV with that of the atheist Ernst Bloch  struggle4progress   May-28-10 08:22 PM   #16 
  - What's funny here is that I don't think you see what you've done.  darkstar3   May-28-10 10:53 PM   #18 
     - Actually, what I said was: "PZ lacks a human sympathy and imagination that Ernst had,  struggle4progress   Jun-02-10 10:04 AM   #56 
        - Why quote marks,  darkstar3   Jun-02-10 10:48 AM   #60 
        - Actually, it's that PZ Myers isn't interested in "Tooth Fairy science"  Euromutt   Jun-04-10 08:11 AM   #100 
           - His big show of defacing communion wafers was about mocking people  struggle4progress   Jun-04-10 09:12 AM   #103 
              - There you go again, claiming that people simply misunderstand you and your ilk.  darkstar3   Jun-04-10 09:39 AM   #104 
              - The wafer bit: Doesn't the church claim that the wafers literally become the body of Christ?  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 11:14 AM   #111 
              - "As far as you can tell" apparently isn't very far  skepticscott   Jun-04-10 12:58 PM   #114 
              - Despite your pretense of scientific concern, your interest is only to sneer  struggle4progress   Jun-04-10 01:37 PM   #116 
                 - Do they have separate gluten-free wafers for gluten-intolerant worshippers?  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 01:45 PM   #117 
                 - Gluten-free wafers are NOT ALLOWED.  trotsky   Jun-04-10 01:58 PM   #118 
                 - No, the Catholics are transubstantiatonists: but they will make  struggle4progress   Jun-04-10 02:06 PM   #119 
                 - "Does not appear to be"? That's just more uninformed intellectual weaseling on your part  skepticscott   Jun-04-10 04:38 PM   #127 
                    - I'm sure we all appreciate your Authority to speak on Catholic doctrine  struggle4progress   Jun-04-10 09:55 PM   #138 
                       - Very good job at ignoring every issue of importance here  skepticscott   Jun-04-10 10:05 PM   #139 
                          - Are you afraid civilization will collapse unless you sneer at people  struggle4progress   Jun-05-10 03:23 AM   #142 
                             - You're entitled to your own opinions  skepticscott   Jun-05-10 06:04 AM   #143 
                                - I should explain someone else's views, so you can mock them? No thank you.  struggle4progress   Jun-05-10 12:52 PM   #146 
                                   - Lame dodge, but about what I expected from you  skepticscott   Jun-05-10 01:27 PM   #147 
                                      - You want to rehabilitate some 17th polemic, largely forgotten by everyone  struggle4progress   Jun-05-10 07:09 PM   #148 
                                         - Duck, dodge, divert  skepticscott   Jun-05-10 07:27 PM   #149 
                                            - Your efforts to be a pain-in-the-ass seem rather amateurish to me. In the decades  struggle4progress   Jun-05-10 08:02 PM   #150 
                                            - Your assholish diversion does nothing to help your case.  darkstar3   Jun-05-10 11:53 PM   #151 
                                            - Now, now.  trotsky   Jun-07-10 06:48 AM   #152 
                                            - So when your exit strategy is an obvious failure,  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 06:00 PM   #154 
              - You're not even trying to understand, are you?  Euromutt   Jun-04-10 06:20 PM   #132 
  - That is bloody brilliant!  PassingFair   Jun-04-10 09:34 PM   #137 
  - When theologians cannot refute the logic of the argument (which is almost ALWAYS).....  DeSwiss   May-28-10 07:23 PM   #15 
  - Can Atheists Simply Ignore Theology?  DeSwiss   May-28-10 07:06 PM   #14 
  - Any legitimate and useful  skepticscott   May-28-10 10:19 PM   #17 
  - Theology = making shit up.  Odin2005   May-30-10 07:39 PM   #20 
  - Exactly.  DeSwiss   May-30-10 08:05 PM   #21 
  - That is perhaps the laziest and most uninteresting of responses  struggle4progress   May-31-10 02:02 AM   #22 
     - Put it this way  skepticscott   May-31-10 04:59 PM   #23 
        - Marxist philosopher discovers Jesus for atheists  struggle4progress   May-31-10 06:17 PM   #24 
           - When someone says  skepticscott   May-31-10 08:28 PM   #25 
              - Hmm. No, there are productive questions and nonproductive questions.  struggle4progress   May-31-10 09:14 PM   #26 
                 - Utter ignorance and an idiotic false dichotomy  skepticscott   Jun-01-10 06:07 AM   #27 
  - Myers' flaw is that he believes if you cannot measure something it does not exist.  rug   Jun-01-10 06:43 AM   #28 
     - What does 'measure' mean?  BurtWorm   Jun-01-10 11:16 AM   #29 
        - Measure, in the conventional scientific sense.  rug   Jun-01-10 04:38 PM   #30 
           - When you can clearly explain why super or extranatural things  darkstar3   Jun-01-10 05:04 PM   #31 
           - Can you explain why human existence can only be explained naturally  rug   Jun-01-10 06:45 PM   #34 
              - Why should I?  darkstar3   Jun-01-10 07:17 PM   #37 
                 - You hold human existence can only be explained through natural means. Why?  rug   Jun-01-10 07:24 PM   #39 
                    - You're avoiding the question.  darkstar3   Jun-01-10 07:29 PM   #41 
                       - Myers, and presumably you, assert that only natural explanations suffice.  rug   Jun-01-10 07:31 PM   #42 
                          - Myers, and I, have science to back us up.  darkstar3   Jun-01-10 08:49 PM   #43 
                          - You're debating yourself.  rug   Jun-04-10 05:12 AM   #93 
                             - Speaking of intellectual dishonesty...  darkstar3   Jun-04-10 08:36 AM   #101 
                                - This forum needs a Godwin rule for Santa Claus.  rug   Jun-04-10 02:27 PM   #123 
                                   - Doesn't matter when the comparison is apt.  darkstar3   Jun-04-10 03:13 PM   #125 
                          - The assertion, if I may speak for darkstar and PZ, is that natural explanations suffice.  BurtWorm   Jun-02-10 10:24 AM   #59 
                          - No, you are mistaken.  trotsky   Jun-02-10 12:14 PM   #63 
           - There are natural explanations for our experience of the 'supernatural.'  BurtWorm   Jun-01-10 05:13 PM   #32 
           - Perfectly said.  darkstar3   Jun-01-10 05:23 PM   #33 
           - Did you get that from an Ayn Rand symposium at MIT?  rug   Jun-01-10 06:56 PM   #36 
              - I'm sorry,  darkstar3   Jun-01-10 07:21 PM   #38 
                 - Call it what you like but that all that post lacked was thunder and lightning.  rug   Jun-01-10 07:25 PM   #40 
           - That's an assertion, not evidence.  rug   Jun-01-10 06:55 PM   #35 
              - What part of human experience do you think they would say is not coverable by a naturalistic view?  BurtWorm   Jun-01-10 09:17 PM   #45 
              - "If it were true -- as conceited shrewdness, proud of not being deceived, thinks --  struggle4progress   Jun-01-10 09:42 PM   #46 
                 - Kierkegaard never counted on the fMRI. n/t  darkstar3   Jun-01-10 09:53 PM   #47 
                 - If you think there is good evidence that fMRI can make visible  struggle4progress   Jun-02-10 09:20 AM   #52 
                    - That's already visible in Christian (and Jewish and other religious/philosophic) documents.  BurtWorm   Jun-02-10 09:51 AM   #55 
                 - That's an appeal to emotion.  BurtWorm   Jun-01-10 11:34 PM   #48 
                    - The world being as-it-is, and we being as-we-are, perhaps it is always  struggle4progress   Jun-02-10 04:01 AM   #50 
                       - Hey look! A straw man!  darkstar3   Jun-02-10 08:30 AM   #51 
                       - Your responses never suggest that you have any idea what is being said.  struggle4progress   Jun-02-10 09:46 AM   #54 
                          - No that's not what I meant exactly.  BurtWorm   Jun-02-10 10:08 AM   #57 
                          - Again I find myself standing by what I have said.  darkstar3   Jun-02-10 10:59 AM   #61 
                          - We give you the courtesy of thinking you're trying to make a point...  Silent3   Jun-02-10 09:20 PM   #69 
                             - Thank you for that.  darkstar3   Jun-02-10 09:34 PM   #70 
                             - Claims "so-and-so is counterfactual and corresponds to no material reality"  struggle4progress   Jun-03-10 01:53 AM   #72 
                                - Sure sounds like a straw man to me...  Silent3   Jun-03-10 07:15 AM   #75 
                                - You should perhaps first avoid assuming that it is my intent  struggle4progress   Jun-03-10 07:59 AM   #77 
                                   - A note on your link. It gets me close but not quite there.  Jim__   Jun-03-10 08:37 AM   #78 
                                   - I think the better question is not whether it's possible...  Silent3   Jun-03-10 10:30 AM   #81 
                                   - First, you expect me to take a theological view that is not my own:  struggle4progress   Jun-04-10 06:30 AM   #96 
                                      - Math and logic aren't so much "real" as inescapable  Silent3   Jun-04-10 01:29 PM   #115 
                                         - That right there is one epic post.  trotsky   Jun-05-10 10:26 AM   #144 
                                   - 'I suspect there are cases where no naturalistic and material account can be given'  BurtWorm   Jun-03-10 12:28 PM   #84 
                                   - I think the example shows this:  struggle4progress   Jun-04-10 06:50 AM   #98 
                                      - Why is that a cheat?  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 10:15 AM   #107 
                                         - It is a cheat for several reasons, but let us deal with this one: because  struggle4progress   Jun-04-10 11:34 AM   #112 
                                         - Is math a human invention or not?  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 11:48 AM   #113 
                                         - IRONY ALERT: 'it is too vague and leaves to me all the hard work of guessing what you might mean.'  BurtWorm   Jun-05-10 10:56 AM   #145 
                                   - I have to think your silence on the question is an indication of your inability to answer it.  BurtWorm   Jun-03-10 07:55 PM   #85 
                                - Give us a non-naturalistic account of agape.  BurtWorm   Jun-03-10 08:58 AM   #80 
                                - But the notion of agape, appearing (say) in a claim that one has  struggle4progress   Jun-04-10 06:55 AM   #99 
                                   - What is that imperative based on, though?  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 10:26 AM   #108 
                                - I need to 'unpack' (as they say in punditese) this sentence of yours concerning me.  BurtWorm   Jun-03-10 10:38 AM   #82 
                       - If there has been progress in the human world,  BurtWorm   Jun-02-10 09:38 AM   #53 
                          - Hmm. No, the idea that individual people can be changed  struggle4progress   Jun-02-10 12:02 PM   #62 
                             - When people change in the Bible, it is because their purpose to god is revealed.  BurtWorm   Jun-02-10 12:43 PM   #64 
                             - That's a conservative fundamentalist reading: a pre-programmed  struggle4progress   Jun-02-10 05:39 PM   #67 
                                - As David Byrne once wrote: 'You're talking a lot but you're not saying anything '  BurtWorm   Jun-02-10 06:18 PM   #68 
                                - Maybe you just didn't like your pseudo-scientific scientism being called idolatry?  struggle4progress   Jun-03-10 12:34 AM   #71 
                                   - No, that's not it. I didn't know that's what you were doing.  BurtWorm   Jun-03-10 06:11 AM   #73 
                                   - Or maybe thinking people are tired of your...  trotsky   Jun-04-10 06:36 AM   #97 
                                      - All this talk of noodling and word salads is making me hungry...  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 11:06 AM   #110 
                                - Let me address a few of your assertions.  BurtWorm   Jun-03-10 06:32 AM   #74 
                                   - Let us handle the "noodly" part, because I think your philosophy of science is bad  struggle4progress   Jun-03-10 07:21 AM   #76 
                                      - Ptolomy's charts said nothing about whether the planets moved around the sun.  BurtWorm   Jun-03-10 08:42 AM   #79 
                                      - 'The chart is not the reality... ' Duh!  BurtWorm   Jun-03-10 11:20 AM   #83 
                                         - "The chart is not the reality." Good: we finally agree on at least one point.  struggle4progress   Jun-04-10 04:35 AM   #92 
                                            - Clarification, please:  darkstar3   Jun-04-10 09:06 AM   #102 
                                            - When I say 'Its all in the genes,' I'm taking a shortcut (admittedly)  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 10:09 AM   #105 
                                            - You know I never got an answer to my question in #102.  darkstar3   Jun-09-10 08:50 AM   #155 
                             - If you have failed after many attempts  skepticscott   Jun-02-10 03:26 PM   #65 
                                - Or perhaps many people in this forum are too lazy to do much except  struggle4progress   Jun-02-10 04:28 PM   #66 
                                   - True prophets are never appreciated in their own times or hometowns.  darkstar3   Jun-03-10 08:14 PM   #86 
              - I have to repeat my question in case you didn't notice it.  BurtWorm   Jun-02-10 10:17 AM   #58 
                 - Will. Choice.  rug   Jun-03-10 08:43 PM   #87 
                    - I won't answer that until you explain how will and choice can possibly have non-natural causes.  BurtWorm   Jun-03-10 10:06 PM   #88 
                    - Ok, don't answer.  rug   Jun-03-10 10:12 PM   #89 
                       - I'll take that as an answer of sorts.  BurtWorm   Jun-03-10 10:21 PM   #90 
                       - Don't. It was not an answer.  rug   Jun-04-10 05:15 AM   #95 
                          - Can you elaborate on what you're looking for from me?  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 10:13 AM   #106 
                             - The premise is this.  rug   Jun-04-10 02:25 PM   #121 
                                - Your original question seemed to me to imply the opposite.  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 03:03 PM   #124 
                       - Poor rug.  darkstar3   Jun-03-10 10:21 PM   #91 
                          - Poor darkstar.  rug   Jun-04-10 05:14 AM   #94 
                    - You seem to be very confused. (As usual.)  trotsky   Jun-04-10 10:53 AM   #109 
                       - Confusion is in the mind of the beholder. (As usual.)  rug   Jun-04-10 02:20 PM   #120 
                          - What *besides* natural processes must be invoked?  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 02:26 PM   #122 
                          - I would like to see an answer to BurtWorm's question as well. n/t  darkstar3   Jun-07-10 05:58 PM   #153 
           - "Regarding God, immeasurability is ... its essential quality." That raises a conundrum  Euromutt   Jun-04-10 04:33 PM   #126 
           - Very well said.  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 04:39 PM   #128 
           - Your post would make sense if the topic was magic.  rug   Jun-04-10 05:56 PM   #129 
              - The dimness of the human intellect is probably the reason we're even talking  BurtWorm   Jun-04-10 06:09 PM   #130 
              - I agree with your subject line  rug   Jun-04-10 06:11 PM   #131 
              - That very much depends on your definition of "deity"  Euromutt   Jun-04-10 08:50 PM   #134 
                 - On the contrary,  rug   Jun-04-10 09:03 PM   #135 
                    - By "flawed" you mean he refuses to put the cart before the horse  Euromutt   Jun-04-10 10:25 PM   #141 
           - An essential quality, or merely an incredibly convenient quality...  Silent3   Jun-04-10 07:37 PM   #133 
              - Thank you. Your elucidation has been very helpful.  rug   Jun-04-10 09:05 PM   #136 
              - Touche; it's the invisible, intangible dragon in Carl Sagan's garage all over again  Euromutt   Jun-04-10 10:15 PM   #140 
 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC