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Reply #45: I thought I made it clear [View All]

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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-25-10 08:01 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. I thought I made it clear
Edited on Sun Apr-25-10 08:02 PM by zeemike
no one could have witnessed the generations of Jesus in the gospells...but relating what you do know to be accepted fact is not the same as an eye witness account but is often found in the account....that does not prove that what WAS witnessed is not true.

But what about the good case I just made that it could have been written down at the time but that no copy of the original survived....which is the case for the vast majority of documents produced at the time.
One could make the assertion that Mathew was not a tax collector because there is no record of it too.
Or that Mathew Mark Luke and John never existed...because we don't have the documents to prove it.
And the same is true of Plato or Socrotees....we do not have the original in their own hand.

Now if you have convincing proof that the wittinesses never wrote it down in their lifetime I am listening.
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  -Review of Philip Pullman's "The Good Man Jesus and the Scoundrel Christ" vixengrl  Apr-24-10 01:20 AM   #0 
  - Seeing how much the fundies got their panties in a twist  Cheap_Trick   Apr-24-10 04:56 AM   #1 
  - not as much subversive as uninformed.  zeemike   Apr-24-10 06:27 AM   #2 
  - True, but none of them claimed...  NeoGreen   Apr-24-10 07:14 AM   #3 
  - And neither did Jesus.  zeemike   Apr-24-10 08:45 AM   #4 
  - "I and my father are one."  darkstar3   Apr-24-10 01:03 PM   #5 
     - And made the same mistake the Jews did with Jesus.  zeemike   Apr-24-10 02:58 PM   #6 
        - And there's the ad hom.  darkstar3   Apr-24-10 03:09 PM   #7 
           - It has noting to do with being smart.  zeemike   Apr-24-10 04:06 PM   #8 
              - An interesting take,  darkstar3   Apr-24-10 04:10 PM   #9 
                 - Have you ever heard of Saint Isis?  zeemike   Apr-24-10 04:46 PM   #10 
                    - And he appeared before the nephites after his resurrection but before his ascention...  darkstar3   Apr-24-10 04:52 PM   #11 
                    - that should have been St.Issa.  zeemike   Apr-24-10 04:55 PM   #12 
                       - uh-huh...  darkstar3   Apr-24-10 04:58 PM   #13 
                          - Never the less the teachings of Jesus are very much like  zeemike   Apr-24-10 05:41 PM   #14 
                             - Sure, OK.  darkstar3   Apr-24-10 06:19 PM   #15 
                                - Well there you have it....it all depends on what we think we know  zeemike   Apr-24-10 09:36 PM   #16 
                                   - Knowledge of the ancient world  darkstar3   Apr-24-10 10:09 PM   #17 
                                      - i am not claiming Jesus was a Buddhist.  zeemike   Apr-25-10 06:12 AM   #21 
                                         - Here's the evidence I would like to see, in order:  Goblinmonger   Apr-25-10 11:42 AM   #23 
                                            - What you ask for is unimpeachable evidence  zeemike   Apr-25-10 12:03 PM   #25 
                                            - Not true.  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 01:33 PM   #27 
                                            - What unimpeachable evidence.  zeemike   Apr-25-10 04:52 PM   #30 
                                            - Are you telling me that we know nothing of Socrates?  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 05:35 PM   #33 
                                            - So are you saying that Jesus or the disciples should have built  zeemike   Apr-25-10 06:18 PM   #37 
                                            - Did Socrates or Aristotle build something I was unaware of? n/t  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 07:26 PM   #43 
                                            - no nothing that I know of  zeemike   Apr-25-10 08:09 PM   #47 
                                            - We have Aristotle's writings,  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 08:19 PM   #49 
                                            - You mean like we have Mathews writings about Jesus?  zeemike   Apr-25-10 08:56 PM   #54 
                                            - Your equivocation is crap. See #53. n/t  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 08:59 PM   #55 
                    - Wow  Goblinmonger   Apr-24-10 11:06 PM   #18 
                    - Seriously (to insert myself back into the thread I started--  vixengrl   Apr-24-10 11:48 PM   #19 
                       - Well to inject myself into your conversation.  zeemike   Apr-25-10 06:32 AM   #22 
                          - So which of the gospels witnessed the "truth"?  Goblinmonger   Apr-25-10 11:46 AM   #24 
                             - Why not all of them?  zeemike   Apr-25-10 12:06 PM   #26 
                                - The gospels were written at LEAST 50-90 years after Jesus' supposed death.  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 01:46 PM   #28 
                                - Written 50 or 60 years after?  zeemike   Apr-25-10 05:22 PM   #32 
                                   - The point was more about the length of time between events and manuscripts.  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 05:42 PM   #34 
                                      - Well I guess you miss the point that we do not KNOW  zeemike   Apr-25-10 06:44 PM   #40 
                                         - Biblical and non-Biblical scholars alike have confirmed that the gospels were written much later.  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 07:30 PM   #44 
                                         - I thought I made it clear  zeemike   Apr-25-10 08:01 PM   #45 
                                         - What?!  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 08:14 PM   #48 
                                         - I feel you are running me around in circles.  zeemike   Apr-25-10 08:33 PM   #51 
                                         - Who's leading who in circles?  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 08:47 PM   #53 
                                         - It is not the evidence I am talking about  zeemike   Apr-25-10 09:18 PM   #56 
                                         - You're all for archaeology when it agrees with you.  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 09:29 PM   #57 
                                         - I do not dismiss it...I suggest they select the evidence to fit the theory  zeemike   Apr-26-10 07:54 AM   #60 
                                - I guess I'm hung up on the "eyewitness" part.  vixengrl   Apr-25-10 01:56 PM   #29 
                                   - The "Q" document is all speculation.  zeemike   Apr-25-10 05:13 PM   #31 
                                      - The reason for showing Jesus afraid of dying  vixengrl   Apr-25-10 05:44 PM   #35 
                                      - But again it starts with the presumption that the story is made up  zeemike   Apr-25-10 06:30 PM   #38 
                                         - .  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 06:43 PM   #39 
                                         - I have made no assumptions  zeemike   Apr-25-10 06:46 PM   #41 
                                         - We are drowning a subthread full of your assumptions. n/t  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 07:25 PM   #42 
                                         - Point them out to me.  zeemike   Apr-25-10 08:06 PM   #46 
                                         - Really?  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 08:24 PM   #50 
                                         - I'm sorry I went back and red those and I see no assumption on my part  zeemike   Apr-25-10 08:39 PM   #52 
                                         - Not really. I'm not sure about "fitting the facts" about anything.  vixengrl   Apr-25-10 09:59 PM   #58 
                                         - Interisting...my atheism pre dates my interest.  zeemike   Apr-26-10 07:45 AM   #59 
                                      - "One does not usually make up a hero that admits to weakness."  darkstar3   Apr-25-10 05:47 PM   #36 
                                      - Literary Fail  Goblinmonger   Apr-26-10 08:28 AM   #61 
                                         - And so you think that if I read it I will suddenly see the light?  zeemike   Apr-26-10 10:08 AM   #62 
                                            - I'm not saying you are going to see the light  Goblinmonger   Apr-26-10 11:00 AM   #63 
                                            - We all have things we grossly misunderstand  zeemike   Apr-26-10 02:11 PM   #67 
                    - Never mind, other posters already addressed this. nt  ZombieHorde   Apr-26-10 01:25 PM   #66 
  - "If you have seen me, then you have seen the Father" and  humblebum   Apr-26-10 11:42 AM   #64 
  - Actually, Pullman probably knows it's a "stretch" to have  vixengrl   Apr-25-10 12:11 AM   #20 
  - An attempt to "re-rail" this train wreck  Goblinmonger   Apr-26-10 12:36 PM   #65 
 

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