trotsky
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Sat Apr-10-10 07:01 AM
Response to Original message |
| 8. Big, big problems with this "study." |
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Limiting their study to plausible accusations made between 1950 and 1992, John Jay researchers reported that about 4 percent of the 110,000 priests active during those years had been accused of sexual misconduct involving childrenI underlined those three words. Why? Because we know, for a fact, that the church ACTIVELY COVERED IT UP. Most especially if you are only looking at data before 1992! Then there's another problem. Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10.From the wording of this, it would seem they are comparing the rate at which priests bugger little boys to the rate at which non-priests commit ANY kind of sexual abuse - i.e., abuse against children, women, or even other men. In fact, if you look at page 2 of this document you'll see that ~10% matches up with many studies of men in the general population regarding OVERALL sexual abuse. Not to mention the great other observations upthread, most notably the one that remarks how all those years of study and training produce at the very least don't produce a human being any MORE moral than the rest of us. What an unsurprising result.
|
| -"Priests abuse children at same rate as everyone else" |
Beartracks |
Apr-10-10 12:41 AM |
#0 |
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Quite true. |
ZeitgeistObserver |
Apr-10-10 12:45 AM |
#1 |
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Yes, the article addresses that issue... |
Beartracks |
Apr-10-10 12:52 AM |
#2 |
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A big kaboom that's been coming for centuries. |
ZeitgeistObserver |
Apr-10-10 01:03 AM |
#3 |
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I like your post |
Angry Dragon |
Apr-10-10 08:46 AM |
#10 |
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Tibetan Buddhism has a world spokesman. nt |
ZombieHorde |
Apr-10-10 01:10 PM |
#20 |
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It begs the question |
notesdev |
Apr-10-10 02:45 AM |
#4 |
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Exactly. |
aquart |
Apr-10-10 04:12 AM |
#6 |
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Fixed. |
Beartracks |
Apr-10-10 10:09 PM |
#27 |
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So what? |
laconicsax |
Apr-10-10 03:00 AM |
#5 |
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Well. Where’s the heckle brigade now? |
ironbark |
Apr-10-10 04:52 AM |
#7 |
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The problem with the Catholic Church has been their response to the rapes. |
ZombieHorde |
Apr-10-10 01:11 PM |
#21 |
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The problem with the atheist response has been to portray religion as central/causal to child abuse |
ironbark |
Apr-10-10 09:21 PM |
#25 |
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Thanks, ironbark. This was exactly my point... |
Beartracks |
Apr-10-10 10:38 PM |
#28 |
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As a booby prize, you get my (long;-) debriefing- Going back to work post. |
ironbark |
Apr-11-10 06:09 AM |
#36 |
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It wouldn't be a punchline if the church didn't shelter the offenders. |
iris27 |
Apr-12-10 09:43 AM |
#50 |
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And I'm sure the Boy Scout Leaders... |
Beartracks |
Apr-13-10 10:22 PM |
#68 |
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Honestly, the Scout leaders were some of the ones MAKING the jokes, |
iris27 |
Apr-14-10 09:07 AM |
#87 |
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Actually... I like that! |
Beartracks |
Apr-14-10 11:39 PM |
#102 |
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I take it, then, that you will now be rushing to the defense of teachers? |
darkstar3 |
Apr-14-10 10:36 AM |
#92 |
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Catholic priests molest children, the Vatican covers it up, and you blame... atheists? |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Apr-11-10 01:13 AM |
#31 |
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Thanks for yet another blatant fabrication and disingenuous falsification of my pov. |
ironbark |
Apr-11-10 01:21 AM |
#32 |
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Your pov's a load of horse shit. |
HiFructosePronSyrup |
Apr-11-10 01:24 AM |
#34 |
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With your blatant falsification it becomes so. |
ironbark |
Apr-11-10 03:31 AM |
#35 |
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self delete - errant post |
Beartracks |
Apr-11-10 01:26 PM |
#38 |
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I have not blamed religion, I have blamed the RCC and its enablers/financial backers. |
ZombieHorde |
Apr-11-10 02:56 PM |
#40 |
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Big, big problems with this "study." |
trotsky |
Apr-10-10 07:01 AM |
#8 |
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You cut your first excerpt short, then misrepresented what it actually said. |
Jim__ |
Apr-10-10 07:41 AM |
#9 |
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Be fair, please |
charlie |
Apr-10-10 09:32 AM |
#12 |
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My bad on the cut, but Jim_ is right. |
Beartracks |
Apr-10-10 10:46 PM |
#29 |
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Hey! Alright! |
trotsky |
Apr-10-10 10:17 AM |
#14 |
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And according to the article the rate among priests is 4%. |
Jim__ |
Apr-10-10 10:32 AM |
#15 |
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That's fine, but you are STILL not disputing what I said. |
trotsky |
Apr-10-10 10:50 AM |
#16 |
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Yes, I am. |
Jim__ |
Apr-10-10 10:59 AM |
#17 |
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No, you aren't. |
trotsky |
Apr-10-10 12:12 PM |
#19 |
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New Church slogan |
edhopper |
Apr-10-10 08:52 AM |
#11 |
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As I posted in GD |
edhopper |
Apr-10-10 09:39 AM |
#13 |
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My problem is no with the abuse rate. |
Goblinmonger |
Apr-10-10 11:33 AM |
#18 |
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+1.23 nt |
ZombieHorde |
Apr-10-10 08:41 PM |
#23 |
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A very apt summation of my feelings on this issue. |
uberllama42 |
Apr-11-10 01:24 AM |
#33 |
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Abuse the same...? |
AlecBGreen |
Apr-10-10 07:26 PM |
#22 |
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Bullshit. n/t |
DeSwiss |
Apr-10-10 08:44 PM |
#24 |
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Well that succinctly answers 7#. |
ironbark |
Apr-10-10 09:25 PM |
#26 |
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:insert rofl smiley here: n/t |
Beartracks |
Apr-10-10 10:48 PM |
#30 |
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..nt |
tiptoe |
Apr-12-10 03:09 AM |
#45 |
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Please explain to me |
skepticscott |
Apr-11-10 06:52 AM |
#37 |
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Uh oh, you whipped out the "apologist" card! |
Beartracks |
Apr-11-10 02:24 PM |
#39 |
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Then what exactly is the point or purpose |
skepticscott |
Apr-11-10 03:23 PM |
#41 |
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Wow, thanks for the bluster. |
Beartracks |
Apr-11-10 06:20 PM |
#42 |
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Nice try at deflecting attention from the real issues. |
skepticscott |
Apr-11-10 08:35 PM |
#43 |
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Disingenuous extrapolation at its worst. |
ironbark |
Apr-12-10 02:47 AM |
#44 |
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You can't answer the question either, can you? |
skepticscott |
Apr-12-10 05:08 AM |
#46 |
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The question is couched in the most insulting baseless presumption of psychic insight |
ironbark |
Apr-12-10 07:04 AM |
#47 |
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As I thought...you can't answer the question |
skepticscott |
Apr-12-10 08:18 PM |
#52 |
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Devoid of the falsification, the question receives answer/s. |
ironbark |
Apr-13-10 03:33 AM |
#54 |
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There, you've answered the question |
skepticscott |
Apr-13-10 05:14 AM |
#57 |
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You ‘SPIN’ my answer to your own false ends and ignore all questions put to you. |
ironbark |
Apr-13-10 06:12 AM |
#59 |
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He's fairly predictable that way, iron. |
Beartracks |
Apr-13-10 10:15 PM |
#67 |
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Once again, for you and the peanut gallery, |
darkstar3 |
Apr-13-10 10:25 PM |
#69 |
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The outrage... |
Beartracks |
Apr-13-10 10:37 PM |
#70 |
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It gets the rough nature of the topic across. |
darkstar3 |
Apr-13-10 10:42 PM |
#71 |
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Topic: Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology |
Beartracks |
Apr-13-10 11:13 PM |
#72 |
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Oh, drop your fear card... |
darkstar3 |
Apr-13-10 11:28 PM |
#73 |
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Seriously, there's a "fear card"? LOL |
Beartracks |
Apr-14-10 02:38 AM |
#75 |
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“But do you really not give a flip about the victims of child molestation in society...” |
ironbark |
Apr-14-10 03:15 AM |
#77 |
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Why would the RATE of child molestation be alarming to anyone? |
darkstar3 |
Apr-14-10 08:56 AM |
#86 |
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I'm sorry. I didn't realize... |
Beartracks |
Apr-14-10 10:24 PM |
#96 |
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Allright, then, |
darkstar3 |
Apr-14-10 10:29 PM |
#98 |
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Still waiting... |
darkstar3 |
Apr-15-10 11:07 AM |
#112 |
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Sorry, Dark. |
Beartracks |
Apr-15-10 07:27 PM |
#117 |
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Good luck to you and yours. |
darkstar3 |
Apr-15-10 07:43 PM |
#119 |
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Back for a couple of minutes |
Beartracks |
Apr-17-10 07:55 PM |
#144 |
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2 things you need to understand: |
darkstar3 |
Apr-17-10 08:48 PM |
#145 |
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Hey, I was re-reading your post... |
Beartracks |
Apr-14-10 10:26 PM |
#97 |
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After reading #93, |
darkstar3 |
Apr-14-10 10:35 PM |
#100 |
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Well, it was just a question that occured to me on the fly. |
Beartracks |
Apr-14-10 10:45 PM |
#101 |
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See #110. |
iris27 |
Apr-15-10 09:49 AM |
#111 |
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Thanks, iris. |
Beartracks |
Apr-15-10 07:36 PM |
#118 |
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It IS addressed (everywhere but in the Catholic church it seems) by criminal trial and imprisonment. |
iris27 |
Apr-14-10 09:55 AM |
#89 |
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Wait, so now CLOWNS are under suspicion?? |
Beartracks |
Apr-14-10 10:34 PM |
#99 |
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Well, I don't know about you, but Ronald always seemed to send off the creepy vibe to me, LOL! |
iris27 |
Apr-15-10 09:40 AM |
#110 |
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Nicely thought out. |
Beartracks |
Apr-15-10 07:43 PM |
#120 |
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The falsification and fabrication score thus far- |
ironbark |
Apr-14-10 05:19 AM |
#80 |
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Hello, skepticscott! |
Beartracks |
Apr-12-10 11:35 PM |
#53 |
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You and ironbark have both made my point...thank you |
skepticscott |
Apr-13-10 05:25 AM |
#58 |
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EXACTLY! |
TZ |
Apr-13-10 11:37 AM |
#62 |
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EXACTLY! You cannot claim Palin is a perfect presidential candidate! |
ironbark |
Apr-14-10 04:49 AM |
#78 |
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Hahahahaha! |
TZ |
Apr-14-10 06:33 AM |
#81 |
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No. I met one bizarre fabricated pov with another.. |
ironbark |
Apr-14-10 07:30 AM |
#83 |
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However instead of going to jail as most molesters do |
TZ |
Apr-12-10 07:51 AM |
#48 |
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yeah TZ |
AlecBGreen |
Apr-12-10 09:10 AM |
#49 |
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Do they institutionally cover it up at the same rate too? |
gcomeau |
Apr-12-10 04:00 PM |
#51 |
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Probably at about the same rate that families do. |
ironbark |
Apr-13-10 04:21 AM |
#55 |
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Bull. Shit. |
gcomeau |
Apr-13-10 11:01 AM |
#60 |
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“a little focused”? You spread your advertised “Bull Shit” well. |
ironbark |
Apr-13-10 04:48 PM |
#63 |
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Geez... |
gcomeau |
Apr-13-10 05:05 PM |
#65 |
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“Search the board”, singular. That’s R&T. NOT all the boards, plural, in the entire DU forum. |
ironbark |
Apr-14-10 02:30 AM |
#74 |
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Uh, this is the R/T board |
skepticscott |
Apr-14-10 04:59 AM |
#79 |
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Yea, R&T, in which a host of issues might be discussed in relation to religion |
ironbark |
Apr-14-10 08:48 AM |
#84 |
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This it THE RELIGION FORUM. |
gcomeau |
Apr-14-10 09:42 AM |
#88 |
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Maybe ironbark is saying child abuse is inherently a religious issue |
muriel_volestrangler |
Apr-14-10 10:18 AM |
#90 |
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Funny, but no. |
darkstar3 |
Apr-14-10 10:31 AM |
#91 |
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“to discuss BOTH sides”? Balanced and thoughtful debate? The precursor of social/ policy change? |
ironbark |
Apr-14-10 06:34 PM |
#94 |
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Thank you for proving my point. |
darkstar3 |
Apr-14-10 06:59 PM |
#95 |
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The police get “no kudos” from you, Child Protection gets “no kudos” |
ironbark |
Apr-15-10 01:35 AM |
#103 |
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Does anyone get kudos from you for avoiding jail? |
darkstar3 |
Apr-15-10 11:13 AM |
#113 |
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You cannot distinguish between ‘abstinence’ and ‘protection’? |
ironbark |
Apr-16-10 02:53 AM |
#121 |
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"A screaming WTF?" |
darkstar3 |
Apr-16-10 08:51 AM |
#125 |
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No surprise you cannot answer the points/questions and flag your retreat |
ironbark |
Apr-16-10 09:31 PM |
#132 |
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If you spun any faster and flung any more shit I'd mistake you for a tornado on a hog farm. |
darkstar3 |
Apr-16-10 10:23 PM |
#133 |
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Ad hom. No substance. No rebuttal. No win. Bye. |
ironbark |
Apr-16-10 11:07 PM |
#135 |
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How perfectly descriptive of your own argumentation. |
darkstar3 |
Apr-16-10 11:16 PM |
#136 |
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Here again is the post and pov that forced you to flee. |
ironbark |
Apr-16-10 11:35 PM |
#138 |
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So... |
darkstar3 |
Apr-16-10 11:51 PM |
#140 |
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So…If you can’t face the simplicity of defending/justifying your own pov |
ironbark |
Apr-17-10 12:20 AM |
#142 |
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Great post! It states the problem quite clearly. |
Jim__ |
Apr-15-10 09:04 AM |
#108 |
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There are now one dozen+ opportunities to consider the positive role of church agencies |
ironbark |
Apr-16-10 04:33 AM |
#124 |
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Of course you don't get it. |
darkstar3 |
Apr-16-10 08:58 AM |
#126 |
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Then link to the post that NAMES the Agencies. |
ironbark |
Apr-16-10 08:24 PM |
#131 |
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The link you have provided more than adequately shows what I was talking about, |
darkstar3 |
Apr-16-10 10:26 PM |
#134 |
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What? STILL can’t NAME THEM? |
ironbark |
Apr-16-10 11:30 PM |
#137 |
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You can keep screeching but it won't change anything. |
darkstar3 |
Apr-16-10 11:49 PM |
#139 |
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Even. if. I .whisper. you. can’t. name. “anything”. that. looks. like. what. you. claim. |
ironbark |
Apr-17-10 12:13 AM |
#141 |
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rug? |
darkstar3 |
Apr-17-10 12:23 AM |
#143 |
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Maybe it's the need some people have for simplistic answers. |
Jim__ |
Apr-16-10 11:10 AM |
#129 |
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Argumentation based exclusively on speculation. |
ironbark |
Apr-15-10 05:40 AM |
#104 |
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OK, we'll make it simple for you: threads on child abuse that didn't involve religion would be moved |
muriel_volestrangler |
Apr-15-10 06:50 AM |
#105 |
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Who said anything about “threads on child abuse that didn't involve religion” ? |
ironbark |
Apr-15-10 07:55 AM |
#106 |
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You did - in capital letters |
muriel_volestrangler |
Apr-15-10 08:03 AM |
#107 |
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So, When your responding directly to 104# your actually referencing 55# without saying so |
ironbark |
Apr-16-10 03:17 AM |
#122 |
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You know, when you're in a deep hole, |
darkstar3 |
Apr-16-10 08:59 AM |
#127 |
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Since #63, #65, #74 and #88 were a discussion about where threads about paedophilia might be found |
muriel_volestrangler |
Apr-16-10 10:52 AM |
#128 |
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'The role of church agencies being clearly part of that "Holistic response"' |
ironbark |
Apr-16-10 07:21 PM |
#130 |
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I'm calling bullshit on your post |
TZ |
Apr-13-10 11:26 AM |
#61 |
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LOL!......Your.....your serious arn't you?.......Bwahahahaha! |
ironbark |
Apr-13-10 05:04 PM |
#64 |
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Crickets |
skepticscott |
Apr-13-10 05:47 PM |
#66 |
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There is no ‘arrogance’ in refusing to have you falsify my pov. |
ironbark |
Apr-14-10 03:05 AM |
#76 |
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There are tons of posts about child abuse |
TZ |
Apr-14-10 06:39 AM |
#82 |
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See 74# and 84# n/t |
ironbark |
Apr-14-10 08:51 AM |
#85 |
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Wow. Imagine posts about religious folks abusing children |
TZ |
Apr-15-10 09:22 AM |
#109 |
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1/ Your responding/arguing with a n/t- no text post. |
ironbark |
Apr-16-10 03:43 AM |
#123 |
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Did the John Jay College study have total access to all files? |
olegramps |
Apr-13-10 04:32 AM |
#56 |
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The title of the OP is misleading at best. |
jgraz |
Apr-14-10 12:39 PM |
#93 |
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Well, I guess that |
golddigger |
Apr-15-10 11:38 AM |
#114 |
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While true how do you explain the "boys club" mentality that allowed abuse to continue? |
Facebook Group |
Apr-15-10 06:43 PM |
#115 |
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Stop spamming the board. |
laconicsax |
Apr-15-10 07:05 PM |
#116 |