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Reply #8: Big, big problems with this "study." [View All]

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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-10-10 07:01 AM
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8. Big, big problems with this "study."
Limiting their study to plausible accusations made between 1950 and 1992, John Jay researchers reported that about 4 percent of the 110,000 priests active during those years had been accused of sexual misconduct involving children

I underlined those three words. Why? Because we know, for a fact, that the church ACTIVELY COVERED IT UP. Most especially if you are only looking at data before 1992!

Then there's another problem.

Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10.

From the wording of this, it would seem they are comparing the rate at which priests bugger little boys to the rate at which non-priests commit ANY kind of sexual abuse - i.e., abuse against children, women, or even other men. In fact, if you look at page 2 of this document you'll see that ~10% matches up with many studies of men in the general population regarding OVERALL sexual abuse.

Not to mention the great other observations upthread, most notably the one that remarks how all those years of study and training produce at the very least don't produce a human being any MORE moral than the rest of us. What an unsurprising result.
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  -"Priests abuse children at same rate as everyone else" Beartracks  Apr-10-10 12:41 AM   #0 
  - Quite true.  ZeitgeistObserver   Apr-10-10 12:45 AM   #1 
  - Yes, the article addresses that issue...  Beartracks   Apr-10-10 12:52 AM   #2 
     - A big kaboom that's been coming for centuries.  ZeitgeistObserver   Apr-10-10 01:03 AM   #3 
        - I like your post  Angry Dragon   Apr-10-10 08:46 AM   #10 
        - Tibetan Buddhism has a world spokesman. nt  ZombieHorde   Apr-10-10 01:10 PM   #20 
  - It begs the question  notesdev   Apr-10-10 02:45 AM   #4 
  - Exactly.  aquart   Apr-10-10 04:12 AM   #6 
  - Fixed.  Beartracks   Apr-10-10 10:09 PM   #27 
  - So what?  laconicsax   Apr-10-10 03:00 AM   #5 
  - Well. Where’s the heckle brigade now?  ironbark   Apr-10-10 04:52 AM   #7 
  - The problem with the Catholic Church has been their response to the rapes.  ZombieHorde   Apr-10-10 01:11 PM   #21 
     - The problem with the atheist response has been to portray religion as central/causal to child abuse  ironbark   Apr-10-10 09:21 PM   #25 
        - Thanks, ironbark. This was exactly my point...  Beartracks   Apr-10-10 10:38 PM   #28 
        - As a booby prize, you get my (long;-) debriefing- Going back to work post.  ironbark   Apr-11-10 06:09 AM   #36 
        - It wouldn't be a punchline if the church didn't shelter the offenders.  iris27   Apr-12-10 09:43 AM   #50 
        - And I'm sure the Boy Scout Leaders...  Beartracks   Apr-13-10 10:22 PM   #68 
           - Honestly, the Scout leaders were some of the ones MAKING the jokes,  iris27   Apr-14-10 09:07 AM   #87 
              - Actually... I like that!  Beartracks   Apr-14-10 11:39 PM   #102 
        - I take it, then, that you will now be rushing to the defense of teachers?  darkstar3   Apr-14-10 10:36 AM   #92 
        - Catholic priests molest children, the Vatican covers it up, and you blame... atheists?  HiFructosePronSyrup   Apr-11-10 01:13 AM   #31 
        - Thanks for yet another blatant fabrication and disingenuous falsification of my pov.  ironbark   Apr-11-10 01:21 AM   #32 
           - Your pov's a load of horse shit.  HiFructosePronSyrup   Apr-11-10 01:24 AM   #34 
              - With your blatant falsification it becomes so.  ironbark   Apr-11-10 03:31 AM   #35 
                 - self delete - errant post  Beartracks   Apr-11-10 01:26 PM   #38 
        - I have not blamed religion, I have blamed the RCC and its enablers/financial backers.  ZombieHorde   Apr-11-10 02:56 PM   #40 
  - Big, big problems with this "study."  trotsky   Apr-10-10 07:01 AM   #8 
  - You cut your first excerpt short, then misrepresented what it actually said.  Jim__   Apr-10-10 07:41 AM   #9 
     - Be fair, please  charlie   Apr-10-10 09:32 AM   #12 
     - My bad on the cut, but Jim_ is right.  Beartracks   Apr-10-10 10:46 PM   #29 
     - Hey! Alright!  trotsky   Apr-10-10 10:17 AM   #14 
        - And according to the article the rate among priests is 4%.  Jim__   Apr-10-10 10:32 AM   #15 
           - That's fine, but you are STILL not disputing what I said.  trotsky   Apr-10-10 10:50 AM   #16 
              - Yes, I am.  Jim__   Apr-10-10 10:59 AM   #17 
                 - No, you aren't.  trotsky   Apr-10-10 12:12 PM   #19 
  - New Church slogan  edhopper   Apr-10-10 08:52 AM   #11 
  - As I posted in GD  edhopper   Apr-10-10 09:39 AM   #13 
  - My problem is no with the abuse rate.  Goblinmonger   Apr-10-10 11:33 AM   #18 
  - +1.23 nt  ZombieHorde   Apr-10-10 08:41 PM   #23 
  - A very apt summation of my feelings on this issue.  uberllama42   Apr-11-10 01:24 AM   #33 
  - Abuse the same...?  AlecBGreen   Apr-10-10 07:26 PM   #22 
  - Bullshit. n/t  DeSwiss   Apr-10-10 08:44 PM   #24 
  - Well that succinctly answers 7#.  ironbark   Apr-10-10 09:25 PM   #26 
     - :insert rofl smiley here: n/t  Beartracks   Apr-10-10 10:48 PM   #30 
     - ..nt  tiptoe   Apr-12-10 03:09 AM   #45 
  - Please explain to me  skepticscott   Apr-11-10 06:52 AM   #37 
  - Uh oh, you whipped out the "apologist" card!  Beartracks   Apr-11-10 02:24 PM   #39 
     - Then what exactly is the point or purpose  skepticscott   Apr-11-10 03:23 PM   #41 
        - Wow, thanks for the bluster.  Beartracks   Apr-11-10 06:20 PM   #42 
           - Nice try at deflecting attention from the real issues.  skepticscott   Apr-11-10 08:35 PM   #43 
              - Disingenuous extrapolation at its worst.  ironbark   Apr-12-10 02:47 AM   #44 
              - You can't answer the question either, can you?  skepticscott   Apr-12-10 05:08 AM   #46 
                 - The question is couched in the most insulting baseless presumption of psychic insight  ironbark   Apr-12-10 07:04 AM   #47 
                    - As I thought...you can't answer the question  skepticscott   Apr-12-10 08:18 PM   #52 
                       - Devoid of the falsification, the question receives answer/s.  ironbark   Apr-13-10 03:33 AM   #54 
                          - There, you've answered the question  skepticscott   Apr-13-10 05:14 AM   #57 
                             - You ‘SPIN’ my answer to your own false ends and ignore all questions put to you.  ironbark   Apr-13-10 06:12 AM   #59 
                                - He's fairly predictable that way, iron.  Beartracks   Apr-13-10 10:15 PM   #67 
                                   - Once again, for you and the peanut gallery,  darkstar3   Apr-13-10 10:25 PM   #69 
                                      - The outrage...  Beartracks   Apr-13-10 10:37 PM   #70 
                                      - It gets the rough nature of the topic across.  darkstar3   Apr-13-10 10:42 PM   #71 
                                      - Topic: Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Religion/Theology  Beartracks   Apr-13-10 11:13 PM   #72 
                                         - Oh, drop your fear card...  darkstar3   Apr-13-10 11:28 PM   #73 
                                            - Seriously, there's a "fear card"? LOL  Beartracks   Apr-14-10 02:38 AM   #75 
                                            - “But do you really not give a flip about the victims of child molestation in society...”  ironbark   Apr-14-10 03:15 AM   #77 
                                            - Why would the RATE of child molestation be alarming to anyone?  darkstar3   Apr-14-10 08:56 AM   #86 
                                            - I'm sorry. I didn't realize...  Beartracks   Apr-14-10 10:24 PM   #96 
                                            - Allright, then,  darkstar3   Apr-14-10 10:29 PM   #98 
                                            - Still waiting...  darkstar3   Apr-15-10 11:07 AM   #112 
                                            - Sorry, Dark.  Beartracks   Apr-15-10 07:27 PM   #117 
                                            - Good luck to you and yours.  darkstar3   Apr-15-10 07:43 PM   #119 
                                            - Back for a couple of minutes  Beartracks   Apr-17-10 07:55 PM   #144 
                                            - 2 things you need to understand:  darkstar3   Apr-17-10 08:48 PM   #145 
                                            - Hey, I was re-reading your post...  Beartracks   Apr-14-10 10:26 PM   #97 
                                            - After reading #93,  darkstar3   Apr-14-10 10:35 PM   #100 
                                            - Well, it was just a question that occured to me on the fly.  Beartracks   Apr-14-10 10:45 PM   #101 
                                            - See #110.  iris27   Apr-15-10 09:49 AM   #111 
                                            - Thanks, iris.  Beartracks   Apr-15-10 07:36 PM   #118 
                                      - It IS addressed (everywhere but in the Catholic church it seems) by criminal trial and imprisonment.  iris27   Apr-14-10 09:55 AM   #89 
                                         - Wait, so now CLOWNS are under suspicion??  Beartracks   Apr-14-10 10:34 PM   #99 
                                            - Well, I don't know about you, but Ronald always seemed to send off the creepy vibe to me, LOL!  iris27   Apr-15-10 09:40 AM   #110 
                                               - Nicely thought out.  Beartracks   Apr-15-10 07:43 PM   #120 
                                      - The falsification and fabrication score thus far-  ironbark   Apr-14-10 05:19 AM   #80 
              - Hello, skepticscott!  Beartracks   Apr-12-10 11:35 PM   #53 
                 - You and ironbark have both made my point...thank you  skepticscott   Apr-13-10 05:25 AM   #58 
                    - EXACTLY!  TZ   Apr-13-10 11:37 AM   #62 
                       - EXACTLY! You cannot claim Palin is a perfect presidential candidate!  ironbark   Apr-14-10 04:49 AM   #78 
                          - Hahahahaha!  TZ   Apr-14-10 06:33 AM   #81 
                             - No. I met one bizarre fabricated pov with another..  ironbark   Apr-14-10 07:30 AM   #83 
  - However instead of going to jail as most molesters do  TZ   Apr-12-10 07:51 AM   #48 
  - yeah TZ  AlecBGreen   Apr-12-10 09:10 AM   #49 
  - Do they institutionally cover it up at the same rate too?  gcomeau   Apr-12-10 04:00 PM   #51 
  - Probably at about the same rate that families do.  ironbark   Apr-13-10 04:21 AM   #55 
     - Bull. Shit.  gcomeau   Apr-13-10 11:01 AM   #60 
     - “a little focused”? You spread your advertised “Bull Shit” well.  ironbark   Apr-13-10 04:48 PM   #63 
        - Geez...  gcomeau   Apr-13-10 05:05 PM   #65 
           - “Search the board”, singular. That’s R&T. NOT all the boards, plural, in the entire DU forum.  ironbark   Apr-14-10 02:30 AM   #74 
              - Uh, this is the R/T board  skepticscott   Apr-14-10 04:59 AM   #79 
              - Yea, R&T, in which a host of issues might be discussed in relation to religion  ironbark   Apr-14-10 08:48 AM   #84 
              - This it THE RELIGION FORUM.  gcomeau   Apr-14-10 09:42 AM   #88 
                 - Maybe ironbark is saying child abuse is inherently a religious issue  muriel_volestrangler   Apr-14-10 10:18 AM   #90 
                    - Funny, but no.  darkstar3   Apr-14-10 10:31 AM   #91 
                    - “to discuss BOTH sides”? Balanced and thoughtful debate? The precursor of social/ policy change?  ironbark   Apr-14-10 06:34 PM   #94 
                       - Thank you for proving my point.  darkstar3   Apr-14-10 06:59 PM   #95 
                       - The police get “no kudos” from you, Child Protection gets “no kudos”  ironbark   Apr-15-10 01:35 AM   #103 
                          - Does anyone get kudos from you for avoiding jail?  darkstar3   Apr-15-10 11:13 AM   #113 
                             - You cannot distinguish between ‘abstinence’ and ‘protection’?  ironbark   Apr-16-10 02:53 AM   #121 
                                - "A screaming WTF?"  darkstar3   Apr-16-10 08:51 AM   #125 
                                   - No surprise you cannot answer the points/questions and flag your retreat  ironbark   Apr-16-10 09:31 PM   #132 
                                      - If you spun any faster and flung any more shit I'd mistake you for a tornado on a hog farm.  darkstar3   Apr-16-10 10:23 PM   #133 
                                         - Ad hom. No substance. No rebuttal. No win. Bye.  ironbark   Apr-16-10 11:07 PM   #135 
                                            - How perfectly descriptive of your own argumentation.  darkstar3   Apr-16-10 11:16 PM   #136 
                                            - Here again is the post and pov that forced you to flee.  ironbark   Apr-16-10 11:35 PM   #138 
                                            - So...  darkstar3   Apr-16-10 11:51 PM   #140 
                                            - So…If you can’t face the simplicity of defending/justifying your own pov  ironbark   Apr-17-10 12:20 AM   #142 
                       - Great post! It states the problem quite clearly.  Jim__   Apr-15-10 09:04 AM   #108 
                          - There are now one dozen+ opportunities to consider the positive role of church agencies  ironbark   Apr-16-10 04:33 AM   #124 
                             - Of course you don't get it.  darkstar3   Apr-16-10 08:58 AM   #126 
                             - Then link to the post that NAMES the Agencies.  ironbark   Apr-16-10 08:24 PM   #131 
                                - The link you have provided more than adequately shows what I was talking about,  darkstar3   Apr-16-10 10:26 PM   #134 
                                   - What? STILL can’t NAME THEM?  ironbark   Apr-16-10 11:30 PM   #137 
                                      - You can keep screeching but it won't change anything.  darkstar3   Apr-16-10 11:49 PM   #139 
                                         - Even. if. I .whisper. you. can’t. name. “anything”. that. looks. like. what. you. claim.  ironbark   Apr-17-10 12:13 AM   #141 
                                            - rug?  darkstar3   Apr-17-10 12:23 AM   #143 
                             - Maybe it's the need some people have for simplistic answers.  Jim__   Apr-16-10 11:10 AM   #129 
                    - Argumentation based exclusively on speculation.  ironbark   Apr-15-10 05:40 AM   #104 
                       - OK, we'll make it simple for you: threads on child abuse that didn't involve religion would be moved  muriel_volestrangler   Apr-15-10 06:50 AM   #105 
                          - Who said anything about “threads on child abuse that didn't involve religion” ?  ironbark   Apr-15-10 07:55 AM   #106 
                             - You did - in capital letters  muriel_volestrangler   Apr-15-10 08:03 AM   #107 
                                - So, When your responding directly to 104# your actually referencing 55# without saying so  ironbark   Apr-16-10 03:17 AM   #122 
                                   - You know, when you're in a deep hole,  darkstar3   Apr-16-10 08:59 AM   #127 
                                   - Since #63, #65, #74 and #88 were a discussion about where threads about paedophilia might be found  muriel_volestrangler   Apr-16-10 10:52 AM   #128 
                                      - 'The role of church agencies being clearly part of that "Holistic response"'  ironbark   Apr-16-10 07:21 PM   #130 
     - I'm calling bullshit on your post  TZ   Apr-13-10 11:26 AM   #61 
        - LOL!......Your.....your serious arn't you?.......Bwahahahaha!  ironbark   Apr-13-10 05:04 PM   #64 
           - Crickets  skepticscott   Apr-13-10 05:47 PM   #66 
              - There is no ‘arrogance’ in refusing to have you falsify my pov.  ironbark   Apr-14-10 03:05 AM   #76 
                 - There are tons of posts about child abuse  TZ   Apr-14-10 06:39 AM   #82 
                    - See 74# and 84# n/t  ironbark   Apr-14-10 08:51 AM   #85 
                       - Wow. Imagine posts about religious folks abusing children  TZ   Apr-15-10 09:22 AM   #109 
                          - 1/ Your responding/arguing with a n/t- no text post.  ironbark   Apr-16-10 03:43 AM   #123 
  - Did the John Jay College study have total access to all files?  olegramps   Apr-13-10 04:32 AM   #56 
  - The title of the OP is misleading at best.  jgraz   Apr-14-10 12:39 PM   #93 
  - Well, I guess that  golddigger   Apr-15-10 11:38 AM   #114 
  - While true how do you explain the "boys club" mentality that allowed abuse to continue?  Facebook Group   Apr-15-10 06:43 PM   #115 
     - Stop spamming the board.  laconicsax   Apr-15-10 07:05 PM   #116 
 

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