Jim__
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Mon Nov-09-09 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #75 |
| 77. What place does religion have ... when making laws and why? |
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Edited on Mon Nov-09-09 10:19 AM by Jim__
That is an extremely difficult question to answer which is why my original answer was a counter-example. The fact that a counter-example is so readily available, makes me believe the answer is that religion does have a place in the discussion about some laws. To find out what that place may be, we would have to go back and look at various legislative discussions over the years (including the Constitutional Convention) and see when religion came up. Were all of these examples invalid? I doubt it.
I can only try to recall things that I am aware of coming up in various discussions over the years. I do remember that during the Vietnam War there was a Catholic priest from, I think, Mass., that was anti-war. Did he ever bring any religious concerns into the discussion (e.g. his idea of Just War Theory), I don't know. The Rev Sloane Coffin (sp) also testified before congress during the war, did he bring up religious arguments, I don't know. During the Civil Rights era, my guess is that religious questions came up - on both sides of the issue.
I think the question is better posed as should we ban bringing up religious discussion in government. I don't believe we should.
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| -Does religion have ANY place in government or governmental discussion? |
rd_kent |
Nov-07-09 07:14 PM |
#0 |
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It doesn't have its place in government. |
glen123098 |
Nov-07-09 07:17 PM |
#1 |
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WE THE PEOPLE WON'T BE WE THE FREE UNTIL FAKE GODS ARE ERADICATED |
HowHasItComeToThis |
Nov-07-09 11:56 PM |
#32 |
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And how do you propose we determine which gods are fake |
Nostradammit |
Nov-08-09 12:36 AM |
#35 |
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Unless you have some proof that one or more is real, then they ARE fake..... |
rd_kent |
Nov-08-09 02:09 AM |
#37 |
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How much does love weigh? |
Nostradammit |
Nov-08-09 01:52 PM |
#51 |
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The same amount as the person from which it emanates. n/t |
darkstar3 |
Nov-08-09 02:00 PM |
#52 |
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Love is an emotion and has no weight. |
rd_kent |
Nov-08-09 02:12 PM |
#54 |
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Then love is not real, according to some. |
Nostradammit |
Nov-08-09 02:35 PM |
#56 |
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False analogy |
darkstar3 |
Nov-08-09 04:10 PM |
#58 |
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You would only be proving the effects of hormones |
Nostradammit |
Nov-08-09 04:50 PM |
#61 |
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Love is one of those effects. |
darkstar3 |
Nov-08-09 04:59 PM |
#62 |
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Would it be possible for a minute part of a whole |
Nostradammit |
Nov-08-09 05:16 PM |
#63 |
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I don't have to prove that love exists, |
darkstar3 |
Nov-08-09 07:28 PM |
#64 |
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Exactly! |
Nostradammit |
Nov-08-09 07:44 PM |
#65 |
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For clarity: |
darkstar3 |
Nov-08-09 08:39 PM |
#70 |
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Understood - |
Nostradammit |
Nov-08-09 10:26 PM |
#71 |
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There is hard statistical evidence that being a proclaimed Atheist. |
heidler1 |
Nov-10-09 01:33 AM |
#89 |
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Yes. When enforcing the separation of church and state. |
geckosfeet |
Nov-07-09 07:20 PM |
#2 |
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Good point. But is that a discussion about religion or about separation of? |
rd_kent |
Nov-07-09 07:21 PM |
#4 |
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It's mostly about keeping unsubstantiated religious beliefs out of the decision making |
geckosfeet |
Nov-08-09 07:45 AM |
#44 |
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sure if people do what jesus said: go in your closet when you pray and quit braying in public nt |
msongs |
Nov-07-09 07:20 PM |
#3 |
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People have the right to practice their religion |
izquierdista |
Nov-07-09 07:23 PM |
#5 |
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What does practicing ones religion have to do with government? |
rd_kent |
Nov-07-09 07:27 PM |
#8 |
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None whatever. |
HeresyLives |
Nov-07-09 07:24 PM |
#6 |
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No. |
PDJane |
Nov-07-09 07:27 PM |
#7 |
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Of course it does... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-07-09 07:31 PM |
#9 |
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Dawkins and other prominent atheist writers disagree |
darkstar3 |
Nov-07-09 07:35 PM |
#11 |
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Dawkins is a tool. |
Sal316 |
Nov-07-09 07:40 PM |
#14 |
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Ah, an ad hom dismissal, why am I not surprised? |
darkstar3 |
Nov-07-09 07:47 PM |
#15 |
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Well, yes, they all have. |
Sal316 |
Nov-07-09 08:31 PM |
#24 |
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It's not a strawman. |
darkstar3 |
Nov-07-09 11:00 PM |
#27 |
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Now I get it! |
Sal316 |
Nov-08-09 08:14 PM |
#66 |
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So you put words in my mouth to setup your own strawman, |
darkstar3 |
Nov-08-09 08:29 PM |
#68 |
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There IS no room for nuance, Sal. |
rd_kent |
Nov-08-09 02:12 AM |
#38 |
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It's called hermeneutics |
Sal316 |
Nov-08-09 08:24 PM |
#67 |
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Faith and reason are incompatible. |
darkstar3 |
Nov-08-09 08:35 PM |
#69 |
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Your points have nothing to do with the question in the OP |
rd_kent |
Nov-09-09 09:41 AM |
#74 |
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So after reading about "hermeneutics, I find that nothing has been answered |
rd_kent |
Nov-09-09 08:26 PM |
#85 |
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"He's just as much a zealot as Robertson, et.al., and should be ignored accordingly" |
ZombieHorde |
Nov-07-09 07:53 PM |
#18 |
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+1 |
Nostradammit |
Nov-08-09 12:39 AM |
#36 |
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Tell me have you ever bothered to even READ anything of Dawkins? |
TZ |
Nov-09-09 09:36 AM |
#73 |
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Fuck Dawkins and I did not say ... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-07-09 07:52 PM |
#17 |
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"religion is simply philosophy with the addition of a deity" |
ZombieHorde |
Nov-07-09 08:02 PM |
#20 |
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Actually, the concept of deaity is basic to the... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-07-09 11:32 PM |
#30 |
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And why so much venom? |
darkstar3 |
Nov-07-09 08:06 PM |
#22 |
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I don't have too many problems with Dawkins, but I'm getting... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-07-09 11:42 PM |
#31 |
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*sigh* |
darkstar3 |
Nov-08-09 12:16 AM |
#33 |
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You said... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-08-09 04:23 PM |
#60 |
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Why would a religious opinion be taken into consideration when making laws? |
rd_kent |
Nov-07-09 07:35 PM |
#12 |
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"One does not need religion to be moral and have ethics." Bingo!!! |
BrklynLiberal |
Nov-07-09 07:48 PM |
#16 |
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But you must have some basis for the mores of a society, and... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-07-09 08:10 PM |
#23 |
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Our morals and ethics come from what we feel, as a society, is acceptable. |
rd_kent |
Nov-07-09 09:24 PM |
#25 |
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Religion has no place in the discussion of... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-07-09 11:28 PM |
#29 |
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There is a difference between discussion and government. |
darkstar3 |
Nov-08-09 12:25 AM |
#34 |
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Not when we are talking about those subjects in the LEGAL sense, it doesn't. |
rd_kent |
Nov-08-09 02:17 AM |
#39 |
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Why shouldn't it is the better question. We have... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-08-09 06:44 AM |
#42 |
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Your logic is flawed... |
rd_kent |
Nov-08-09 10:58 AM |
#47 |
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your problem is that you have some obessession for... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-08-09 04:14 PM |
#59 |
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SO you choose not to answer the question? |
rd_kent |
Nov-09-09 08:30 PM |
#86 |
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No, I don't agree. You have no argument. Now claim that I am... |
TreasonousBastard |
Nov-09-09 11:00 PM |
#87 |
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No worries, It is not my job to ensure you are not ignorant. |
rd_kent |
Nov-10-09 11:09 AM |
#90 |
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Religion IS a form of government |
darkstar3 |
Nov-07-09 07:33 PM |
#10 |
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Absolutely Correct!!! Religion has no place in our government! n/t |
RKP5637 |
Nov-07-09 08:03 PM |
#21 |
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NO. |
BrklynLiberal |
Nov-07-09 07:37 PM |
#13 |
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And which one... I believe there are something like 1600 religions and most |
RKP5637 |
Nov-07-09 08:01 PM |
#19 |
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Other than creationism, the other topics you mentioned have nonreligious opponents. |
rug |
Nov-07-09 10:47 PM |
#26 |
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Name for me please three nationally known non-religious opponents |
darkstar3 |
Nov-07-09 11:01 PM |
#28 |
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I don't know any but |
Meshuga |
Nov-08-09 10:46 AM |
#46 |
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What are the non-religious arguments on those subjects then? |
rd_kent |
Nov-08-09 02:19 AM |
#40 |
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Re abortion, start here: |
rug |
Nov-08-09 06:38 AM |
#41 |
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I asked for YOUR arguments, rug. |
rd_kent |
Nov-08-09 11:00 AM |
#48 |
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Read the post again. I didn't say I was making the argument. |
rug |
Nov-08-09 01:50 PM |
#50 |
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My post #40 CLEARLY asks for it. |
rd_kent |
Nov-08-09 02:04 PM |
#53 |
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Not to be pedantic, but the question is in the third person, not the second. |
rug |
Nov-08-09 02:14 PM |
#55 |
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Oh for fucks sake, rug. |
rd_kent |
Nov-08-09 02:54 PM |
#57 |
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Of course religion has a place in government discussion. |
Jim__ |
Nov-08-09 07:32 AM |
#43 |
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Thats a good answer, but it is dodging the OP. |
rd_kent |
Nov-08-09 11:03 AM |
#49 |
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You seem to be dodging your own question. |
Jim__ |
Nov-09-09 07:21 AM |
#72 |
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OK, you got me. |
rd_kent |
Nov-09-09 09:46 AM |
#75 |
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What place does religion have ... when making laws and why? |
Jim__ |
Nov-09-09 10:18 AM |
#77 |
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Ok, no need to get too specific. |
rd_kent |
Nov-09-09 10:48 AM |
#78 |
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If we don't ban religious discussion from governmental discussion ... |
Jim__ |
Nov-09-09 11:07 AM |
#79 |
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Jim, were talking about the public discourse and making laws here |
rd_kent |
Nov-09-09 12:31 PM |
#81 |
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It's the same thing. |
Jim__ |
Nov-09-09 01:32 PM |
#82 |
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It does now... |
Meshuga |
Nov-08-09 10:03 AM |
#45 |
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Ahh, but thats my point! |
rd_kent |
Nov-09-09 09:50 AM |
#76 |
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Correct |
Meshuga |
Nov-09-09 11:59 AM |
#80 |
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No. |
Deep13 |
Nov-09-09 03:14 PM |
#83 |
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As these notable Revolutionaries and Founders didn't think so.... |
DeSwiss |
Nov-09-09 05:14 PM |
#84 |
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No. |
Iggo |
Nov-09-09 11:24 PM |
#88 |
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No. |
ChadwickHenryWard |
Nov-10-09 02:23 PM |
#91 |