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Reply #120: Like others here, I do not feel any need to make someone else change his/her mind [View All]

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MikeH Donating Member (1000+ posts)  Journal Click to send private message to this author Click to view this author's profile Click to add this author to your buddy list Click to add this author to your Ignore list Mon Oct-19-09 06:22 PM
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120. Like others here, I do not feel any need to make someone else change his/her mind
I might say what I think about a particular topic or matter, and if what I say influences someone else to do some thinking, great. If not, no problem.

Incidentally that is one of the nice things about not being a Christian, particularly not being a fundamentalist Christian like Zebedeo. A fundamentalist Christian has on his or her mind the thought that other people are going to go to hell for all eternity if they happen to not "accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior" in this lifetime. I just don't see how anybody can get any of the normal joy or enjoyment out of life, or relate normally and naturally with other people, if they really think that.

I would consider myself to be a Deist, and just on the believing side of agnostic. I feel that there are reasons that believing in some reality or intelligence higher or greater than ourselves is not absurd or ridiculous. However I am not so positive about the reality of God that I feel I need to be bothered if other people feel that their reasoning leads them to believe in no God, and are happy about not believing.

Deists do not accept any alleged revelation from God as actually being such, and I am with them about that. I think that there are serious problems with considering either the Bible, or the Koran, for instance, as being actual revelations from God.

However if somebody else does adhere to one of the "revealed" religions, such as Islam or Christianity, and the person is happy with his or her particular faith, then I respect that person's faith -- as long as the person does not tell me that I am going to go to hell if I do not accept his or her faith, or otherwise say that his or her faith is right and anything else is wrong, and does not feel that it is his or her business to impose rules or laws on the rest of society based on his or her particular religious beliefs (such as Proposition 8). I feel very strongly about separation of church and state, for instance.
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  You have one chance (one question/statement) to make an R/T opponent change his/her mind. BurtWorm  Sep-30-09 03:43 PM   #0 
   Is an "R/T opponent" someone who opposes religion and theology, or someone who opposes this board?  ZombieHorde   Sep-30-09 03:48 PM   #1 
   You have a third guess.  BurtWorm   Sep-30-09 03:55 PM   #2 
   Whatever R/T is, I really do not think that it is possible to change the mind, especially if R/T  T Wolf   Sep-30-09 04:00 PM   #3 
   (look at the name of the forum)  BurtWorm   Sep-30-09 04:08 PM   #4 
   Call them a sinner, threaten them with hell, and then tell them about Christ's salvation.  laconicsax   Sep-30-09 04:09 PM   #5 
   Here's mine  BurtWorm   Sep-30-09 04:30 PM   #6 
   Elaboration  BurtWorm   Sep-30-09 04:53 PM   #7 
   Because we're free to choose....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-01-09 03:05 PM   #17 
      So faith for faith's sake is important to god?  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 03:43 PM   #18 
         Yes, faith is important.  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-02-09 12:40 AM   #22 
            So you pick and choose what to believe from the banquet of beliefs previous xians left for you?  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 09:55 AM   #24 
            Pretty much. Yes.  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-02-09 10:14 AM   #25 
               I'm just curious: if you get to pick and choose beliefs that feel comfortable to you  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 01:05 PM   #26 
                  Sort of an obtuse question....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-02-09 01:12 PM   #28 
                     You're a deist, then?  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 01:47 PM   #29 
                        In the general sense of the word...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-02-09 02:55 PM   #32 
            So you can forget about hell so long as your own ass is saved?  Silent3   Oct-02-09 02:05 PM   #30 
            Wow. That's whole lot of hostility you've got there...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-02-09 03:12 PM   #33 
            The hostility is a reaction to the inherent...  Silent3   Oct-02-09 03:37 PM   #35 
            Well, because love is never something  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 09:48 PM   #60 
               I appreciate that you aren't subscribing to the idea of hell...  Silent3   Oct-03-09 03:08 PM   #64 
            personally, I think the whole  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 09:47 PM   #59 
               It's a centuries-old question...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-03-09 09:58 AM   #61 
                  Yes, that's why I'm a universalist  JerseygirlCT   Oct-03-09 03:08 PM   #63 
   Are you certain it's not?  rug   Oct-01-09 01:40 PM   #12 
   Repetez s'il vous plait.  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 01:45 PM   #13 
      I undertand you clearly. Other words are unnecessary.  rug   Oct-01-09 01:52 PM   #14 
         Am I certain what is not?  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 02:07 PM   #15 
            Speaking for Rug  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 05:42 PM   #42 
               I don't believe there is a god to make a request.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 05:53 PM   #44 
                  Your post was premised on the existence of God.  rug   Oct-02-09 05:59 PM   #46 
                  My question is to people who believe that a deity expects something of them  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 06:12 PM   #49 
                     Yeah, that's what it mostly comes down to.  rug   Oct-02-09 06:23 PM   #54 
                        I doubt that's what it comes down to for most of the faithful.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 06:31 PM   #57 
                           There are hypocrites, vengeful and petty people all over.  rug   Oct-02-09 06:50 PM   #58 
                  I did  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 06:02 PM   #47 
                     Clear from whom? It's one tiny part of your religion!  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 06:14 PM   #50 
                        It's all of my religion  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 06:16 PM   #51 
                           Then my question is not to you.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 06:18 PM   #53 
                              Nor I you! nt  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 06:29 PM   #56 
   Do you find that sort of clarity in any relationship?  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 05:40 PM   #41 
   'Love one another' is an English phrase approximating the Biblical one, I presume.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 05:57 PM   #45 
      I think God sent that message, in many different ways to  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 06:06 PM   #48 
         Millions of faithful would beg to differ with you about that.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 06:16 PM   #52 
            I understand that  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 06:28 PM   #55 
   I would call that "Growing Pains" dude and give him a banana  Meshuga   Oct-03-09 12:16 PM   #62 
      No! Don't bring out the Kirk Cameron!  JerseygirlCT   Oct-03-09 03:09 PM   #65 
         He would be entertaining  Meshuga   Oct-03-09 08:47 PM   #66 
            Phew. nt  JerseygirlCT   Oct-03-09 09:15 PM   #68 
   FWIW ...  Nihil   Oct-01-09 08:57 AM   #8 
   Which side of the spectrum are you on, out of curiosity?  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 10:36 AM   #9 
   Mainly visible with some tactile infrared ...  Nihil   Oct-02-09 09:35 AM   #23 
      My point in asking the questions was, really, to ask if you thought there were some issues  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 04:28 PM   #37 
         Agreed.  Nihil   Oct-05-09 12:49 PM   #70 
   I'm with you  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 05:43 PM   #43 
   +100  Withywindle   Oct-06-09 03:28 AM   #73 
      Some good points there.  Nihil   Oct-06-09 08:58 AM   #74 
   I'd ask them to read the works of Rene Girard...  Critters2   Oct-01-09 12:34 PM   #10 
   Would you be sharing that with atheists or with right-wing fundamentalists?  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 12:48 PM   #11 
   I'd be sharing it with both.  Critters2   Oct-01-09 05:20 PM   #20 
      I think most atheists would not be persuaded by what sounds like a teleological argument  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 08:19 PM   #21 
   That's quite the ignorant blanket statement.  trotsky   Oct-02-09 01:09 PM   #27 
   I'd give up. :)  Silent3   Oct-01-09 02:45 PM   #16 
   Planting a seed should be good enough.  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 03:47 PM   #19 
   Convincing Athiests  geistvomeinzelganger   Oct-02-09 02:32 PM   #31 
   Someone too young to read is an opponent?  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 03:30 PM   #34 
      I'd like an answer to this question as well. n/t  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 06:45 PM   #84 
   zOMG I wouldn't bother  MorningGlow   Oct-02-09 04:22 PM   #36 
   This discussion might interest you:  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 04:30 PM   #38 
      "An it harm none" is the operative phrase  MorningGlow   Oct-02-09 05:11 PM   #39 
         I get that, and admire that philosophy.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 05:19 PM   #40 
   I will say what I think about the subject being discussed.  Meshuga   Oct-03-09 09:03 PM   #67 
   I think that makes perfect sense! nt  JerseygirlCT   Oct-03-09 09:17 PM   #69 
   I'd probably ruin my chance by making a stupid joke.Probably something about ass pimples. Or penises  Evoman   Oct-06-09 01:12 AM   #71 
   Not take it...why do I need to change his or her mind? who cares if he or she is not hurting anyone?  AuntPatsy   Oct-06-09 03:20 AM   #72 
   I would tell her about God's love for her  Zebedeo   Oct-13-09 11:50 PM   #75 
   And when she asks about the alternative? n/t  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 01:09 AM   #76 
   I would tell her that  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 01:21 PM   #78 
      "God does not want anyone to choose to be separated from Him"  ZombieHorde   Oct-14-09 02:25 PM   #80 
      He has.  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 10:05 PM   #87 
         All creation cries out to anyone with ears that God is magnificent and glorious.  ZombieHorde   Oct-14-09 11:05 PM   #89 
         We think too much alike, apparently.  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 11:22 PM   #91 
            Happens. I feel guilty when I am involved in a dog pile, but two posts does not make a dog pile. nt  ZombieHorde   Oct-15-09 07:52 PM   #103 
         Wow...  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 11:22 PM   #90 
         I thought you were seriously inquiring, darkstar3.  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 11:34 PM   #93 
            Condescension?!?!  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 11:38 PM   #94 
               Sure, I have answers to your questions/comments  Zebedeo   Oct-15-09 12:15 AM   #97 
                  What is simpler? The idea that energy is eternal,  iris27   Oct-15-09 12:48 AM   #99 
                  We know from observation that your hypothesis is false  Zebedeo   Oct-15-09 01:34 AM   #101 
                     Buzz! wrong.  darkstar3   Oct-15-09 01:38 AM   #102 
                     Fail.  Zebedeo   Oct-16-09 03:01 AM   #106 
                        Please provide evidence of these observations you or others have made.  darkstar3   Oct-16-09 09:16 AM   #109 
                           Google is your friend  Zebedeo   Oct-16-09 08:43 PM   #113 
                              Google is YOUR friend as well,  darkstar3   Oct-16-09 11:33 PM   #118 
                     Uh, no, energy/matter already existed before the Big Bang.  iris27   Oct-16-09 12:10 AM   #105 
                        “In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.”  Nihil   Oct-16-09 08:23 AM   #108 
                        Terry Prachett is awesome. :)  iris27   Oct-16-09 07:07 PM   #112 
                        Isn't it astonishing  BurtWorm   Oct-16-09 01:39 PM   #110 
                           That's God  Zebedeo   Oct-16-09 08:51 PM   #114 
                              And he's male?  BurtWorm   Oct-16-09 09:05 PM   #115 
                              Nice creed statement there  darkstar3   Oct-16-09 11:06 PM   #117 
                              Interesting ...  Nihil   Oct-20-09 09:16 AM   #121 
                                 That substitution doesn't work  darkstar3   Oct-20-09 10:25 AM   #122 
                                    I agree but at that point, their words came close - hence the "if" in my original comment.  Nihil   Oct-20-09 10:42 AM   #123 
                  ...  darkstar3   Oct-15-09 12:48 AM   #100 
         Additional:  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 11:25 PM   #92 
      So for failing to believe in God,  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 02:55 PM   #82 
   And she would probably ask you, "How do you know what God wants? Does he tell you this?"  BurtWorm   Oct-14-09 11:25 AM   #77 
      It is written on our hearts  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 01:25 PM   #79 
         Is shame always a sign of God's disapproval of our actions?  BurtWorm   Oct-14-09 02:47 PM   #81 
         No, sometimes shame has other sources. n/t  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 09:51 PM   #86 
            How can you tell the diffference between God-shame and other shame?  BurtWorm   Oct-15-09 12:12 AM   #96 
         What of murderers?  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 06:43 PM   #83 
            They certainly know that what they do is wrong  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 09:50 PM   #85 
               Tell that to Bundy, Gacy, and Dahmer  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 10:07 PM   #88 
               If a person does not know that his criminal conduct is wrong  Zebedeo   Oct-16-09 03:21 AM   #107 
                  See post #95  darkstar3   Oct-16-09 02:09 PM   #111 
               They only "know" it's wrong because society has taught them that it's wrong,  iris27   Oct-14-09 11:57 PM   #95 
               I think most murderers, rapists, and thieves know those activities are illegal,  ZombieHorde   Oct-15-09 10:21 PM   #104 
   I have no R/T opponent(s).....  DeSwiss   Oct-15-09 12:32 AM   #98 
   Religious faith is experiential not a matter of argumentation  Lydia Leftcoast   Oct-16-09 10:55 PM   #116 
   Speaking as a "mystical atheist"  GliderGuider   Oct-17-09 01:21 PM   #119 
   Like others here, I do not feel any need to make someone else change his/her mind  MikeH   Oct-19-09 06:22 PM   #120 
   Don't think of others with different opinions as "opponents"...  Desertrose   Oct-20-09 07:51 PM   #124 
 

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