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Zebedeo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-14-09 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #80
87. He has.
"Holy, holy, holy is the LORD Almighty; the whole earth is full of his glory." Isaiah 6:3

"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands" Psalm 19:1

All creation cries out to anyone with ears that God is magnificent and glorious. It is so everpresent that it is scarcely possible to ignore.

In addition to His creation, He gave us the Law on stone tablets. He gave us prophet after prophet after prophet. When we rejected the Law and the prophets, He came down and walked the Earth Himself in the incarnation of His Son, lived a perfect life, showed us how to live, and made the ultimate sacrifice upon the cross to pay for our sins. Then, for thousands more years, He has lived in the hearts of men and women the world round. In light of all this, it can hardly be credibly argued that God has failed to make His presence known.

What would be sufficient for you to conclude that He has made his presence known? Would He have to physically reveal Himself to you personally, and to each and every other person on the planet? Then would He have to continue to do that, as new people are born over the years and centuries and millenia? Do you think that is a reasonable expectation on your part?
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  -You have one chance (one question/statement) to make an R/T opponent change his/her mind. BurtWorm  Sep-30-09 02:43 PM   #0 
  - Is an "R/T opponent" someone who opposes religion and theology, or someone who opposes this board?  ZombieHorde   Sep-30-09 02:48 PM   #1 
  - You have a third guess.  BurtWorm   Sep-30-09 02:55 PM   #2 
  - Whatever R/T is, I really do not think that it is possible to change the mind, especially if R/T  T Wolf   Sep-30-09 03:00 PM   #3 
  - (look at the name of the forum)  BurtWorm   Sep-30-09 03:08 PM   #4 
  - Call them a sinner, threaten them with hell, and then tell them about Christ's salvation.  laconicsax   Sep-30-09 03:09 PM   #5 
  - Here's mine  BurtWorm   Sep-30-09 03:30 PM   #6 
  - Elaboration  BurtWorm   Sep-30-09 03:53 PM   #7 
  - Because we're free to choose....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-01-09 02:05 PM   #17 
  - So faith for faith's sake is important to god?  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 02:43 PM   #18 
     - Yes, faith is important.  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-01-09 11:40 PM   #22 
     - So you pick and choose what to believe from the banquet of beliefs previous xians left for you?  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 08:55 AM   #24 
     - Pretty much. Yes.  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-02-09 09:14 AM   #25 
        - I'm just curious: if you get to pick and choose beliefs that feel comfortable to you  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 12:05 PM   #26 
           - Sort of an obtuse question....  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-02-09 12:12 PM   #28 
              - You're a deist, then?  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 12:47 PM   #29 
              - In the general sense of the word...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-02-09 01:55 PM   #32 
              - Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.  rd_kent   Jan-28-10 09:07 AM   #127 
     - So you can forget about hell so long as your own ass is saved?  Silent3   Oct-02-09 01:05 PM   #30 
     - Wow. That's whole lot of hostility you've got there...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-02-09 02:12 PM   #33 
     - The hostility is a reaction to the inherent...  Silent3   Oct-02-09 02:37 PM   #35 
     - Well, because love is never something  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 08:48 PM   #60 
        - I appreciate that you aren't subscribing to the idea of hell...  Silent3   Oct-03-09 02:08 PM   #64 
     - personally, I think the whole  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 08:47 PM   #59 
        - It's a centuries-old question...  Jeff In Milwaukee   Oct-03-09 08:58 AM   #61 
           - Yes, that's why I'm a universalist  JerseygirlCT   Oct-03-09 02:08 PM   #63 
     - If god is God, then why create a being, give him free choice...  damyank913   Jan-28-10 01:19 PM   #134 
  - For those hung up on atheism as a belief system...  damyank913   Jan-29-10 08:07 AM   #140 
  - Are you certain it's not?  rug   Oct-01-09 12:40 PM   #12 
  - Repetez s'il vous plait.  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 12:45 PM   #13 
     - I undertand you clearly. Other words are unnecessary.  rug   Oct-01-09 12:52 PM   #14 
        - Am I certain what is not?  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 01:07 PM   #15 
           - Speaking for Rug  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 04:42 PM   #42 
              - I don't believe there is a god to make a request.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 04:53 PM   #44 
                 - Your post was premised on the existence of God.  rug   Oct-02-09 04:59 PM   #46 
                 - My question is to people who believe that a deity expects something of them  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 05:12 PM   #49 
                    - Yeah, that's what it mostly comes down to.  rug   Oct-02-09 05:23 PM   #54 
                       - I doubt that's what it comes down to for most of the faithful.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 05:31 PM   #57 
                          - There are hypocrites, vengeful and petty people all over.  rug   Oct-02-09 05:50 PM   #58 
                 - I did  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 05:02 PM   #47 
                    - Clear from whom? It's one tiny part of your religion!  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 05:14 PM   #50 
                       - It's all of my religion  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 05:16 PM   #51 
                          - Then my question is not to you.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 05:18 PM   #53 
                             - Nor I you! nt  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 05:29 PM   #56 
  - Do you find that sort of clarity in any relationship?  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 04:40 PM   #41 
  - 'Love one another' is an English phrase approximating the Biblical one, I presume.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 04:57 PM   #45 
     - I think God sent that message, in many different ways to  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 05:06 PM   #48 
        - Millions of faithful would beg to differ with you about that.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 05:16 PM   #52 
           - I understand that  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 05:28 PM   #55 
  - I would call that "Growing Pains" dude and give him a banana  Meshuga   Oct-03-09 11:16 AM   #62 
     - No! Don't bring out the Kirk Cameron!  JerseygirlCT   Oct-03-09 02:09 PM   #65 
        - He would be entertaining  Meshuga   Oct-03-09 07:47 PM   #66 
           - Phew. nt  JerseygirlCT   Oct-03-09 08:15 PM   #68 
  - FWIW ...  Nihil   Oct-01-09 07:57 AM   #8 
  - Which side of the spectrum are you on, out of curiosity?  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 09:36 AM   #9 
  - Mainly visible with some tactile infrared ...  Nihil   Oct-02-09 08:35 AM   #23 
     - My point in asking the questions was, really, to ask if you thought there were some issues  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 03:28 PM   #37 
        - Agreed.  Nihil   Oct-05-09 11:49 AM   #70 
  - I'm with you  JerseygirlCT   Oct-02-09 04:43 PM   #43 
  - +100  Withywindle   Oct-06-09 02:28 AM   #73 
     - Some good points there.  Nihil   Oct-06-09 07:58 AM   #74 
  - I'd ask them to read the works of Rene Girard...  Critters2   Oct-01-09 11:34 AM   #10 
  - Would you be sharing that with atheists or with right-wing fundamentalists?  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 11:48 AM   #11 
  - I'd be sharing it with both.  Critters2   Oct-01-09 04:20 PM   #20 
     - I think most atheists would not be persuaded by what sounds like a teleological argument  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 07:19 PM   #21 
  - That's quite the ignorant blanket statement.  trotsky   Oct-02-09 12:09 PM   #27 
  - I'd give up. :)  Silent3   Oct-01-09 01:45 PM   #16 
  - Planting a seed should be good enough.  BurtWorm   Oct-01-09 02:47 PM   #19 
  - Convincing Athiests  geistvomeinzelganger   Oct-02-09 01:32 PM   #31 
  - Someone too young to read is an opponent?  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 02:30 PM   #34 
     - I'd like an answer to this question as well. n/t  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 05:45 PM   #84 
  - zOMG I wouldn't bother  MorningGlow   Oct-02-09 03:22 PM   #36 
  - This discussion might interest you:  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 03:30 PM   #38 
     - "An it harm none" is the operative phrase  MorningGlow   Oct-02-09 04:11 PM   #39 
        - I get that, and admire that philosophy.  BurtWorm   Oct-02-09 04:19 PM   #40 
  - I will say what I think about the subject being discussed.  Meshuga   Oct-03-09 08:03 PM   #67 
  - I think that makes perfect sense! nt  JerseygirlCT   Oct-03-09 08:17 PM   #69 
  - I'd probably ruin my chance by making a stupid joke.Probably something about ass pimples. Or penises  Evoman   Oct-06-09 12:12 AM   #71 
  - Not take it...why do I need to change his or her mind? who cares if he or she is not hurting anyone?  AuntPatsy   Oct-06-09 02:20 AM   #72 
  - I would tell her about God's love for her  Zebedeo   Oct-13-09 10:50 PM   #75 
  - And when she asks about the alternative? n/t  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 12:09 AM   #76 
  - I would tell her that  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 12:21 PM   #78 
     - "God does not want anyone to choose to be separated from Him"  ZombieHorde   Oct-14-09 01:25 PM   #80 
     - He has.  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 09:05 PM   #87 
        - All creation cries out to anyone with ears that God is magnificent and glorious.  ZombieHorde   Oct-14-09 10:05 PM   #89 
        - We think too much alike, apparently.  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 10:22 PM   #91 
           - Happens. I feel guilty when I am involved in a dog pile, but two posts does not make a dog pile. nt  ZombieHorde   Oct-15-09 06:52 PM   #103 
        - Wow...  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 10:22 PM   #90 
        - I thought you were seriously inquiring, darkstar3.  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 10:34 PM   #93 
        - Condescension?!?!  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 10:38 PM   #94 
        - Sure, I have answers to your questions/comments  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 11:15 PM   #97 
           - What is simpler? The idea that energy is eternal,  iris27   Oct-14-09 11:48 PM   #99 
           - We know from observation that your hypothesis is false  Zebedeo   Oct-15-09 12:34 AM   #101 
              - Buzz! wrong.  darkstar3   Oct-15-09 12:38 AM   #102 
              - Fail.  Zebedeo   Oct-16-09 02:01 AM   #106 
                 - Please provide evidence of these observations you or others have made.  darkstar3   Oct-16-09 08:16 AM   #109 
                    - Google is your friend  Zebedeo   Oct-16-09 07:43 PM   #113 
                       - Google is YOUR friend as well,  darkstar3   Oct-16-09 10:33 PM   #118 
              - Uh, no, energy/matter already existed before the Big Bang.  iris27   Oct-15-09 11:10 PM   #105 
                 - In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.  Nihil   Oct-16-09 07:23 AM   #108 
                 - Terry Prachett is awesome. :)  iris27   Oct-16-09 06:07 PM   #112 
                 - Isn't it astonishing  BurtWorm   Oct-16-09 12:39 PM   #110 
                    - That's God  Zebedeo   Oct-16-09 07:51 PM   #114 
                       - And he's male?  BurtWorm   Oct-16-09 08:05 PM   #115 
                       - Nice creed statement there  darkstar3   Oct-16-09 10:06 PM   #117 
                       - Interesting ...  Nihil   Oct-20-09 08:16 AM   #121 
                       - That substitution doesn't work  darkstar3   Oct-20-09 09:25 AM   #122 
                       - I agree but at that point, their words came close - hence the "if" in my original comment.  Nihil   Oct-20-09 09:42 AM   #123 
                       - Yes. I've noticed that when beer talk turns to religion ...  Jim__   Jan-28-10 09:49 AM   #132 
                       - Zeb, you are delusional.  rd_kent   Jan-28-10 09:23 AM   #131 
                          - Not delusional; Christian.  Zebedeo   Jan-28-10 11:24 PM   #137 
                             - Looks like you should read #90 again.  darkstar3   Jan-28-10 11:31 PM   #138 
                             - Same thing, my Friend, same thing.  rd_kent   Jan-29-10 11:49 AM   #141 
           - ...  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 11:48 PM   #100 
        - Asking for proof is a closed mind? I think you need to seek help for YOUR closed mind.  rd_kent   Jan-28-10 09:20 AM   #130 
        - Right on !!!!!!!!!!!!  damyank913   Jan-28-10 01:48 PM   #135 
        - Additional:  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 10:25 PM   #92 
        - Ah, so the book of fairly tales that is not only inconsistent but conflicting and, on most accounts,  rd_kent   Jan-28-10 09:18 AM   #129 
        - Cuckoo, cuckoo!  rd_kent   Jan-29-10 11:50 AM   #142 
     - So for failing to believe in God,  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 01:55 PM   #82 
  - And she would probably ask you, "How do you know what God wants? Does he tell you this?"  BurtWorm   Oct-14-09 10:25 AM   #77 
  - It is written on our hearts  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 12:25 PM   #79 
     - Is shame always a sign of God's disapproval of our actions?  BurtWorm   Oct-14-09 01:47 PM   #81 
     - No, sometimes shame has other sources. n/t  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 08:51 PM   #86 
        - How can you tell the diffference between God-shame and other shame?  BurtWorm   Oct-14-09 11:12 PM   #96 
           - 3 1/2 months and no answer.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Jan-28-10 08:39 AM   #125 
     - What of murderers?  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 05:43 PM   #83 
        - They certainly know that what they do is wrong  Zebedeo   Oct-14-09 08:50 PM   #85 
           - Tell that to Bundy, Gacy, and Dahmer  darkstar3   Oct-14-09 09:07 PM   #88 
           - If a person does not know that his criminal conduct is wrong  Zebedeo   Oct-16-09 02:21 AM   #107 
              - See post #95  darkstar3   Oct-16-09 01:09 PM   #111 
           - They only "know" it's wrong because society has taught them that it's wrong,  iris27   Oct-14-09 10:57 PM   #95 
           - I think most murderers, rapists, and thieves know those activities are illegal,  ZombieHorde   Oct-15-09 09:21 PM   #104 
  - How do YOU know what god wants? Did he tell you directly?  rd_kent   Jan-28-10 09:16 AM   #128 
  - I have no R/T opponent(s).....  DeSwiss   Oct-14-09 11:32 PM   #98 
  - Religious faith is experiential not a matter of argumentation  Lydia Leftcoast   Oct-16-09 09:55 PM   #116 
  - Speaking as a "mystical atheist"  GliderGuider   Oct-17-09 12:21 PM   #119 
  - Like others here, I do not feel any need to make someone else change his/her mind  MikeH   Oct-19-09 05:22 PM   #120 
  - Don't think of others with different opinions as "opponents"...  Desertrose   Oct-20-09 06:51 PM   #124 
  - I'd say "screw it" and use the statement for something productive.  Commie Pinko Dirtbag   Jan-28-10 08:41 AM   #126 
  - dupe  Lydia Leftcoast   Jan-28-10 12:58 PM   #133 
  - Switch to another forum. That would be my best option.  MineralMan   Jan-28-10 07:54 PM   #136 
  - I don't think I would  Dorian Gray   Jan-29-10 07:00 AM   #139 

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