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Reply #71: How does letting an innocent man die make us less guilty? [View All]

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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 03:47 PM
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71. How does letting an innocent man die make us less guilty?
When I was a believer, I was very bothered by the question you raise and never resolved it. Frankly, the whole idea of vicarious blood sacricie for the wrong-doing of others is reprehensible.
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  -Jesus died for your sins? Richard D  Apr-14-09 03:02 PM   #0 
  - i didn't ask him to do that for me, i don't/didn't want him to do that for me  Scout   Apr-14-09 03:04 PM   #1 
  - Of course.  Richard D   Apr-14-09 03:05 PM   #2 
  - God  spag68   Apr-14-09 03:47 PM   #10 
  - Its Total BS- Kind, Good People Die Horrible Deaths  we can do it   Apr-14-09 03:05 PM   #3 
  - That's my theory about most celebs, too.  Goblinmonger   Apr-14-09 03:50 PM   #11 
     - No Kidding -also Jimi Hendrix, Freddie Mercury, Heath Ledger.....  we can do it   Apr-14-09 04:22 PM   #14 
        - Yeah, you're with me--Chris Farley, John Belushi, Kurt Cobain.... n/t  Goblinmonger   Apr-14-09 09:07 PM   #25 
  - The point that Jesus loves us more than we love him is exactly the point  CreekDog   Apr-14-09 03:08 PM   #4 
  - Yup. I'm pretty sure he ate too much chocolate.  lumberjack_jeff   Apr-14-09 03:13 PM   #5 
  - I've Been Told By My Fundamentalist Neighbor  AldebTX   Apr-14-09 03:14 PM   #6 
  - What I never got is the whole "sin" system in Christian Theology  Chulanowa   Apr-14-09 03:24 PM   #7 
  - I think it's all allegory  Richard D   Apr-14-09 03:32 PM   #8 
  - Not enough people have read that book.  laconicsax   Apr-14-09 04:39 PM   #16 
  - Haven't read it, but I'm familiar with that take on the story  Chulanowa   Apr-15-09 03:17 PM   #69 
  - "Sin" is literally "missing the mark"  JerseygirlCT   Apr-14-09 09:03 PM   #23 
     - I see the Garden of Eden story as an allegorical explanation for why  Lydia Leftcoast   Apr-15-09 01:01 AM   #42 
     - Thank you, I've not heard it told that way before. That's a beautiful interpretation.  54anickel   Apr-15-09 09:31 AM   #48 
     - Oh, I understand the allegory of the Garden of Eden just fine  Chulanowa   Apr-15-09 03:11 PM   #68 
  - "Jesus died for somebody's sin but not mine"  DBoon   Apr-14-09 03:47 PM   #9 
  - I was taught that Jesus ...  GeorgeGist   Apr-14-09 03:53 PM   #12 
  - The price of sin is death.  Sanctified   Apr-14-09 04:18 PM   #13 
  - Death comes to us all. nt  Deep13   Apr-15-09 03:48 PM   #72 
  - No.  Why Syzygy   Apr-14-09 04:37 PM   #15 
  - Wasn't that all determined after the fact?  laconicsax   Apr-14-09 04:47 PM   #17 
     - Well you are recalling incorrectly.  Sanctified   Apr-14-09 04:52 PM   #18 
     - I did remember that, I was asking a slightly different question.  laconicsax   Apr-14-09 07:56 PM   #20 
        - No.  Igel   Apr-24-09 02:13 PM   #117 
     - The "died for you sins" stuff? Pretty much a later development.  54anickel   Apr-14-09 08:16 PM   #21 
     - Yes! Thank you. nt  JerseygirlCT   Apr-14-09 09:07 PM   #26 
     - I like your point on MARK. We don't know exactly who Mark is,  saltpoint   Apr-14-09 09:16 PM   #28 
     - Yes, of course I should have said the author of Mark - didn't think we were being that scholastic  54anickel   Apr-14-09 09:55 PM   #34 
        - Agree -- the Mark author isn't one for the elaborate flourish.  saltpoint   Apr-14-09 10:00 PM   #35 
     - There's a question that follows that.  laconicsax   Apr-14-09 09:26 PM   #30 
     - There could have been. I would love to know more about the narrative  saltpoint   Apr-14-09 09:42 PM   #32 
     - Opposition by whom? Certainly there was opposition, Peter drew his sword and hacked off the ear of  54anickel   Apr-14-09 10:09 PM   #36 
     - That actually raises a question that I've struggled with many times in church doctrine -  54anickel   Apr-14-09 11:11 PM   #37 
        - The only good answer I've heard offends the hell out of people.  laconicsax   Apr-15-09 12:31 AM   #41 
        - Not offended at all. My understanding is that the Gospels were written for different  54anickel   Apr-15-09 09:15 AM   #47 
        - It certainly would have been  GKirk   Apr-16-09 08:52 PM   #92 
     - The Kingdom of God  Why Syzygy   Apr-14-09 11:16 PM   #38 
        - Only one of those says that he did.  laconicsax   Apr-15-09 01:10 AM   #43 
           - I just included  Why Syzygy   Apr-15-09 01:47 AM   #45 
              - Got it. Thanks.  laconicsax   Apr-15-09 04:47 PM   #74 
     - No. See post #38. nt  Why Syzygy   Apr-14-09 11:16 PM   #39 
        - Thanks. See post #43.  laconicsax   Apr-15-09 01:10 AM   #44 
  - I think Jesus died because he and his followers represented a potential  saltpoint   Apr-14-09 07:53 PM   #19 
  - Oh, absolutely. Though I don't think it was in the least a violent  JerseygirlCT   Apr-14-09 09:06 PM   #24 
     - Madam, you continue to make sense on these boards generally and  saltpoint   Apr-14-09 09:10 PM   #27 
        - Good point!  JerseygirlCT   Apr-14-09 09:19 PM   #29 
  - That's matter the most common way of looking at the resurrection  JerseygirlCT   Apr-14-09 08:58 PM   #22 
  - Yep, but I disagree on the crucifixion, I don't think God caused it or made it happen,  54anickel   Apr-14-09 09:26 PM   #31 
  - So, what's your theory  Why Syzygy   Apr-14-09 11:23 PM   #40 
     - Because the priestly class wanted political power  Meshuga   Apr-15-09 07:00 AM   #46 
     - Do you mind  Why Syzygy   Apr-15-09 10:39 AM   #49 
     - Perhaps you should have PM'd your question directly to JerseygirlCT rather than post it in an open  54anickel   Apr-15-09 10:59 AM   #50 
     - I understand the concept of discussion board.  Why Syzygy   Apr-15-09 11:04 AM   #51 
        - Offended? Not really. Your original wording came off as rather rude and condescending  54anickel   Apr-15-09 11:13 AM   #52 
           - I have a lot of respect for Meshuga  Why Syzygy   Apr-15-09 11:20 AM   #53 
              - I am not a girl  Meshuga   Apr-15-09 11:45 AM   #55 
              - Oh for pity's sake.  Why Syzygy   Apr-15-09 12:21 PM   #57 
                 - I am not an atheist and 54anickel is a Christian  Meshuga   Apr-15-09 12:36 PM   #59 
                    - Two against one.  Why Syzygy   Apr-15-09 12:39 PM   #61 
                       - I don't know 54anickel enough to say she is teaming up with me...  Meshuga   Apr-15-09 01:06 PM   #63 
              - So, am I considered a *gasp* non-Christian in your view? Just curious...regardless of the answer,  54anickel   Apr-15-09 12:20 PM   #56 
                 - What?  Why Syzygy   Apr-15-09 12:26 PM   #58 
                    - I guess it was the closing comment on your post #53.  54anickel   Apr-15-09 12:36 PM   #60 
                       - Right.  Why Syzygy   Apr-15-09 12:41 PM   #62 
                          - Wow. Guess you didn't pay much attention to my conversation with "atheists". Or you'd have noticed  54anickel   Apr-15-09 01:07 PM   #64 
                             - I appreciate your posts and your intrusion  Meshuga   Apr-15-09 01:21 PM   #65 
                                - It is a facinating study, the "evolution" of Christology. I appreciate your insights, though I  54anickel   Apr-15-09 02:03 PM   #66 
                                   - It is Jewish Tradition  Meshuga   Apr-15-09 03:02 PM   #67 
                                      - I must plead ignorance on the names, yet we seem to share interest in similar subject matters of  54anickel   Apr-15-09 05:08 PM   #75 
                                         - Yes, there is a parallel in our interests in regards to our respective religions  Meshuga   Apr-15-09 09:46 PM   #82 
     - You don't want to read my two cents.  Meshuga   Apr-15-09 11:39 AM   #54 
     - It is puzzling how quick Christians are to start a war over nothing.  heidler1   Apr-15-09 03:45 PM   #70 
     - What isn't the least puzzling  Why Syzygy   Apr-15-09 04:01 PM   #73 
     - I want to come back to this question.  Why Syzygy   Apr-15-09 06:49 PM   #77 
        - You have surprised me, Thank you for your generous offer.  heidler1   Apr-16-09 01:33 AM   #84 
           - The offer stands.  Why Syzygy   Apr-16-09 10:36 AM   #88 
              - I replied to your private message.  heidler1   Apr-16-09 12:44 PM   #90 
     - I think that's being sort of rough  JerseygirlCT   Apr-15-09 07:23 PM   #80 
     - how does one person replying block another from replying? nt  Muttocracy   Apr-15-09 09:23 PM   #81 
     - One interpretation I've heard recently of the  JerseygirlCT   Apr-15-09 07:22 PM   #79 
        - That marks the official break.  Meshuga   Apr-17-09 01:46 PM   #101 
     - I'd guess that those were more a function of the culture at the  JerseygirlCT   Apr-15-09 07:20 PM   #78 
  - The anonymous old woman or young man or school teacher or  saltpoint   Apr-14-09 09:51 PM   #33 
  - How does letting an innocent man die make us less guilty?  Deep13   Apr-15-09 03:47 PM   #71 
  - I agree plus this imaginary god is so vengefully that if it turned out to all come true.  heidler1   Apr-15-09 06:08 PM   #76 
  - That was my first-ever doubt as a 7-year-old believer, and the one  iris27   Apr-15-09 10:44 PM   #83 
  - It's interesting. Confronted with ideas like the one  JerseygirlCT   Apr-16-09 09:39 AM   #85 
     - Yes, I had a similar experience. Just found a lot of the church teachings weren't meshing with my  54anickel   Apr-16-09 10:16 AM   #86 
     - If I may play the devil's advocate:  Jokerman   Apr-16-09 10:16 AM   #87 
        - No empirical proof. Just my judgement  JerseygirlCT   Apr-16-09 10:38 AM   #89 
           - "So I'm quite content to believe as I do, and if it turns out I've had it all wrong, then I think my  Evoman   Apr-16-09 08:26 PM   #91 
              - When  Why Syzygy   Apr-16-09 08:57 PM   #93 
              - Again, it's an idea entirely at odds with the idea of a loving God  JerseygirlCT   Apr-17-09 01:12 PM   #96 
              - Unless the authoritarians are right....  Evoman   Apr-17-09 01:18 PM   #99 
              - You are lucky that your  Meshuga   Apr-17-09 01:41 PM   #100 
              - They aren't oval, they are spherical. Canadian scientists use them to calibrate  Evoman   Apr-17-09 02:33 PM   #112 
                 - Yes they are very important to calibrate instruments  Meshuga   Apr-17-09 03:22 PM   #113 
              - I'm rather looking forward to watching them learn the hard lesson  JerseygirlCT   Apr-17-09 01:57 PM   #103 
              - Thomas B. Thayer (snipped)  Why Syzygy   Apr-17-09 01:58 PM   #105 
                 - And yet, look what humankind has done to it over the years  JerseygirlCT   Apr-17-09 02:18 PM   #110 
                    - The driving force.  Why Syzygy   Apr-17-09 02:25 PM   #111 
              - I hope your right....I would hate to spend the rest of eternity with the devil stabbing my ballz  Evoman   Apr-17-09 01:14 PM   #97 
                 - Evo, have you thought about getting some help for that  JerseygirlCT   Apr-17-09 01:58 PM   #104 
                    - Yes, I've gotten help with my preoccupation. It was fun. Now I'm looking for more help.  Evoman   Apr-17-09 02:02 PM   #106 
                       - You're on a roll today, aren't you? nt  JerseygirlCT   Apr-17-09 02:16 PM   #109 
              - Well, we'll be roasting together then, huh?  JerseygirlCT   Apr-17-09 01:08 PM   #95 
                 - Yes, I suppose. I'm wondering if hell has anything like marshmallows.  Evoman   Apr-17-09 01:15 PM   #98 
                    - LOL. You're such a guy. nt  JerseygirlCT   Apr-17-09 01:55 PM   #102 
                       - I can't help it, it's glandular.  Evoman   Apr-17-09 02:03 PM   #107 
                          - LOL! Thanks, I needed that. nt  JerseygirlCT   Apr-17-09 02:15 PM   #108 
  - I don't see the Crucifixion as Jesus dying for our sins to appease an angry God.  deutsey   Apr-17-09 08:46 AM   #94 
  - What The Heck Is Your Problem!!!  ChelseaCenior   Apr-17-09 03:58 PM   #114 
  - One more thing  ChelseaCenior   Apr-17-09 04:00 PM   #115 
  - Guilt and Fear are the prime motivators of Evangelical Christianity  Taverner   Apr-21-09 11:50 AM   #116 
  - Anyway he did not existe, so why they care about my behaviour ?....  Sandrine for you   Apr-24-09 09:55 PM   #118 

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