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Reply #102: Of course it is an ad hominem. Fundamentalist christians IDENTIFY THEMSELVES as fundamentalist. [View All]

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Evoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-28-08 12:32 PM
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102. Of course it is an ad hominem. Fundamentalist christians IDENTIFY THEMSELVES as fundamentalist.
Edited on Wed May-28-08 12:33 PM by Evoman
They have no problems with the descriptor because *gasp* IT FUCKING DESCRIBES THEM. As much as we on the left dislike it, fundie isn't a bad word if it's properly used. It is sort of the "liberal" of the left wing. If a right winger called you a liberal, you wouldn't blink an eye because that is what you are. It describes you. Among themselves though, it is a prejorative.

In essence, people who use the term fundamentalists to describe someone who is not religious and has no fundamentals in the first place is using the prejorative version of the word.

It's not hard to see and I really wish that people who use the term would have the self awareness to look at themeselves honestly and see how they are using the word. When are you using it? Are you using it in anger? Are you using it in frustration?

Moreover, look at how we argue among ourselves. We all strongly express opinions, be it in political discussions or religious discussions. And I strongly believe that not a single person on this site ever goes door to door and evangelizes or, outside of discussion, approaches people and attack their beliefs. Actually, there are a couple of people who do, but I know that those people accept the term fundamentalist anyways.

The rest of us don't. Whether you say something negative about atheism or atheists (and if your honest with yourself, you know it happens) or you say something negative about christians or christianity (and again, it happens), IT DOESN'T MAKE YOU A FUNDIE CHRISTIAN OR A FUNDIE ATHEIST. To be honest, I seldom see anybody on here calling liberal christians fundies for expressing their opinions, but the opposite happens regularly.

Now I'm going to be even more honest with you. When I hear the term Fundie Atheist, I really don't get as angry as some of the other atheists around here do. Heh...I just see it as a fight or flight response from someone who can't argue about their opinions. If they want to call me a name because I post my opinions on some unimportant site in the corners of the internets, then let them. Outside of DU, most of the time, I could give a shit about religion and barely think about it.

If it makes you feel better, call me a fundie's not gonna stop me from spankin' your ass.
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  -Evangelical / Fundamentalist Atheism as an ad hominem varkam  May-23-08 05:26 PM   #0 
  - It can't be an ad hominem because atheists aren't people n/t  uberllama42   May-23-08 08:39 PM   #1 
  - Eminently reasonable, as always  uberllama42   May-23-08 08:58 PM   #2 
  - Real Americans understand that politics isn't about nice rational argument:  struggle4progress   May-23-08 10:11 PM   #3 
  - The flaw in many people's thinking  skepticscott   May-23-08 10:36 PM   #4 
  - Very true.  knitter4democracy   May-23-08 10:39 PM   #6 
  - I can't stand the terms, myself.  knitter4democracy   May-23-08 10:39 PM   #5 
  - Likewise  ironbark   May-23-08 11:34 PM   #7 
  - To quote the OP  cosmik debris   May-24-08 06:37 AM   #8 
  - Well said.  Jim__   May-24-08 07:08 AM   #9 
  - Having read many of Varkam's posts  MrWiggles   May-24-08 07:40 AM   #10 
  - Yes  Dorian Gray   May-26-08 09:24 AM   #82 
  - Both sides is indicative of the problem.  ironbark   May-24-08 08:11 PM   #43 
  - Sorry man  MrWiggles   May-24-08 08:05 AM   #13 
  - Couple of things...  varkam   May-24-08 03:41 PM   #29 
  - With respect Varkam  ironbark   May-24-08 08:04 PM   #42 
     - I see.  varkam   May-24-08 10:08 PM   #50 
        - Human and hypocritical?  ironbark   May-26-08 09:33 AM   #84 
  - Excellent, objective analysis  HamdenRice   May-28-08 08:18 AM   #96 
     - But the "bashing"  Goblinmonger   May-28-08 12:32 PM   #101 
     - It's frustrating isn't it, that someone can be so unaware of their own mind.  Evoman   May-28-08 12:39 PM   #105 
     - I can't see anyone being asked or told to "shut up".  ironbark   May-29-08 02:56 AM   #131 
        - I understand that  Goblinmonger   May-29-08 08:06 AM   #133 
           - You "understand that" no one is saying "shut up" in text....  ironbark   May-29-08 08:49 AM   #135 
              - Where have  Goblinmonger   May-29-08 09:02 AM   #136 
                 - Here....the general spirit made flesh  ironbark   May-29-08 05:54 PM   #143 
                    - Cool..some of those quotes are mine.  Evoman   May-29-08 06:54 PM   #146 
                       - I was asked for the evidence  ironbark   May-29-08 08:40 PM   #147 
     - Ah, figured you come around at some point.  varkam   May-28-08 03:14 PM   #122 
  - I hate the fundamentalist non-fundamentalists.  cyborg_jim   May-24-08 07:46 AM   #11 
  - It is like calling a woman a "son of a bitch"  cosmik debris   May-24-08 08:04 AM   #12 
  - Total aside....  Dorian Gray   May-26-08 09:27 AM   #83 
  - How would one describe offensively dogmatic atheists?  Pigwidgeon   May-24-08 09:09 AM   #14 
  - "Dogmatic atheist?"  Warpy   May-24-08 10:55 AM   #17 
  - Yes there are Nihilist Atheists, Humanist Atheists. Both Gandhi and Stalin were Atheists.  Taverner   May-24-08 03:30 PM   #28 
  - It's still a meaningless pejorative  Warpy   May-24-08 03:48 PM   #30 
  - Jesus fuck I agree and you jump on me  Taverner   May-24-08 07:33 PM   #39 
  - But the term dogmatic atheist...  varkam   May-24-08 03:51 PM   #32 
  - Then one could conceive of "assholery" as being the "dogma"  Duke Newcombe   May-30-08 05:00 PM   #148 
  - Gandhi was a Hindu: he wrote a still-available commentary on the Gita, and some of his devotional  struggle4progress   May-25-08 02:30 PM   #65 
     - He was also an Atheist - Hindus can be both  Taverner   May-25-08 03:15 PM   #67 
        - An Atheist With Gandhi  struggle4progress   May-25-08 03:35 PM   #68 
  - Did you even read that?  Pigwidgeon   May-24-08 04:16 PM   #33 
  - Well, I hate to point this out, but...  varkam   May-24-08 03:50 PM   #31 
  - What if they simply switch to the term "Agitprop Atheism"?  Boojatta   May-24-08 09:13 AM   #15 
  - I prefer "Uppity" n/t  PassingFair   May-24-08 09:48 AM   #16 
  - If you extract some consistent idea of...  Boojatta   May-24-08 12:32 PM   #19 
  - LOL. Operatives on both sides catapulting divisiveness.  Festivito   May-24-08 12:39 PM   #20 
     - Who are the operatives?  Boojatta   May-24-08 12:43 PM   #21 
     - The un-tombstoned, the posting dead (of heart).  Festivito   May-24-08 01:08 PM   #22 
        - The Hollow Men  Goblinmonger   May-24-08 08:22 PM   #44 
           - Carry on, with a whimper, like it's the end of the world or something.  Festivito   May-24-08 09:38 PM   #48 
     - "Yet, rational think-tanks contrive to divide us"  Boojatta   May-24-08 01:11 PM   #23 
        - Know your enemy. Eminently rational. Devoid of heart.  Festivito   May-24-08 01:45 PM   #24 
           - If this "heart" you speak of...  Kerry4Kerry   May-24-08 02:26 PM   #25 
              - I use the word heart to speak respectfully to both sides.  Festivito   May-24-08 02:57 PM   #26 
                 - There's a distinction to be made between irrational and non-rational  Kerry4Kerry   May-24-08 05:07 PM   #35 
                    - There are more distinctions: What I'd see. What you'd see.  Festivito   May-24-08 06:21 PM   #38 
                       - Embracing the irrational...  Kerry4Kerry   May-24-08 07:37 PM   #40 
                          - Thanks.  Festivito   May-24-08 09:22 PM   #46 
  - Atheism is a religion  frogmarch   May-24-08 11:16 AM   #18 
  - Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself  Taverner   May-24-08 03:29 PM   #27 
  - But I encounter more "fundamentalist" arguments from atheists in R/T than anywhere else in my life:  struggle4progress   May-24-08 04:52 PM   #34 
  - Please help me understand  cosmik debris   May-24-08 05:38 PM   #36 
  - I share your confusion  Kerry4Kerry   May-24-08 07:40 PM   #41 
     - I suspect that this will degenerate into a semantic argument  cosmik debris   May-24-08 08:50 PM   #45 
     - You demand definitions while whining you can't expect more than semantics? *snork*  struggle4progress   May-24-08 10:53 PM   #53 
        - I did not demand, I politely requested.  cosmik debris   May-25-08 07:40 AM   #58 
           - OK: You request definitions while whining you can't expect more than semantics? Still *snork*  struggle4progress   May-25-08 01:01 PM   #60 
              - And still no definition  cosmik debris   May-25-08 02:19 PM   #64 
                 - Riight! I can give a definition, then you can moan I'm playing semantic games. No thanks! Bye!  struggle4progress   May-25-08 06:18 PM   #74 
                 - I told you: "I'm not going to argue about your definition,"  cosmik debris   May-25-08 06:24 PM   #75 
                 - Again, you proved me right.  cosmik debris   May-26-08 07:59 AM   #80 
                    - .  struggle4progress   May-26-08 05:02 PM   #94 
                 - working definition  ironbark   May-26-08 10:42 AM   #85 
                    - If you say so.  cosmik debris   May-26-08 11:08 AM   #86 
                       - Let me see...  ironbark   May-26-08 11:26 AM   #87 
                       - That figures  cosmik debris   May-26-08 11:54 AM   #88 
                          - My initial impulse  ironbark   May-26-08 12:41 PM   #90 
                             - So, you can't define "fundamentalist" without context?  cosmik debris   May-26-08 12:49 PM   #91 
                                - I don't think you need me  ironbark   May-26-08 12:55 PM   #92 
                       - Second thought.  ironbark   May-26-08 12:17 PM   #89 
                          - Well, at least you are making sense now. Sorta.  cosmik debris   May-26-08 12:55 PM   #93 
     - Yes, that is the way I use the term  struggle4progress   May-24-08 09:58 PM   #49 
        - Umm... okay.  Kerry4Kerry   May-24-08 10:13 PM   #51 
           - My use of the term seems clear enough and corresponds to an actual phenomenon  struggle4progress   May-24-08 10:18 PM   #52 
              - As clear as is seems strange...  Kerry4Kerry   May-25-08 12:09 AM   #54 
                 - Playing innocent is disingenuous: you yourself regularly contribute to such threads, such as  struggle4progress   May-25-08 12:35 AM   #55 
                    - What on earth does this have to do...  Kerry4Kerry   May-25-08 06:55 AM   #56 
                    - You actually want me to read your post in context, instead of quoting it in isolation  struggle4progress   May-25-08 01:00 PM   #59 
                       - All that's coming through is that you have an enormous chip on your shoulder...  Kerry4Kerry   May-25-08 02:11 PM   #62 
                          - So my attempt to provide a coherent parsing of "fundamentalist atheist" (as  struggle4progress   May-25-08 02:43 PM   #66 
                             - Show me this "attempt to provide a coherent parsing"...  Kerry4Kerry   May-25-08 03:48 PM   #69 
                             - My post #34 was completely clear  struggle4progress   May-25-08 04:29 PM   #70 
                                - Your post #34 is nothing more than a restatement of what's being disputed in this sub-thread.  Kerry4Kerry   May-25-08 05:23 PM   #71 
                                   - Okay, you have convinced me further effort is entirely pointless. Well-played!  struggle4progress   May-25-08 06:15 PM   #72 
                             - You haven't even TRIED to clarify. That's the point.  Zhade   May-25-08 08:44 PM   #76 
                    - Out of curiousity, which form is this alleged insistence of mine taking?  Kerry4Kerry   May-25-08 07:14 AM   #57 
                    - Well, in that thread...  varkam   May-25-08 02:09 PM   #61 
                       - I think I must renew my intention to avoid philosophical discussions, as a continuing source of  struggle4progress   May-25-08 06:17 PM   #73 
                          - That seems a rather silly reason to abandon philosophical discussion.  varkam   May-25-08 09:34 PM   #77 
  - Huh?  Kerry4Kerry   May-24-08 05:39 PM   #37 
  - Are there atheists that insist that if you consider yourself a Christian...  varkam   May-25-08 02:11 PM   #63 
  - Hahah...I dare you to look up the phrase "True Christian" in the Search option.  Evoman   May-25-08 11:07 PM   #78 
  - I'd waste way too much time looking at Landover Baptist or similar stuff:  struggle4progress   May-26-08 12:31 AM   #79 
  - I've had this discussion with you before  Goblinmonger   May-28-08 01:28 PM   #109 
  - You would (I think) set up two scarecrows and insist I choose between them -- your own decision  struggle4progress   May-28-08 05:01 PM   #123 
  - So you berate me  Goblinmonger   May-28-08 11:48 PM   #129 
     - Have a nice day  struggle4progress   May-29-08 12:21 AM   #130 
  - Except that your point doesn't fit  JerseygirlCT   Jun-02-08 04:51 PM   #160 
  - LOL  JerseygirlCT   Jun-02-08 04:47 PM   #158 
  - Yes absolutely.  turtlensue   May-24-08 09:35 PM   #47 
  - I always enjoy reading  Dorian Gray   May-26-08 09:23 AM   #81 
  - As an atheist, I use "fundamentalist atheist" to distinguish myself ...  HamdenRice   May-28-08 08:00 AM   #95 
  - Oh the irony......  Evoman   May-28-08 09:45 AM   #97 
  - I think most people will take 'narrow-mindedness' and 'intolerance'  muriel_volestrangler   May-28-08 11:34 AM   #98 
  - Most of the time, if someone says they are objective, it means that they aren't.  Evoman   May-28-08 12:12 PM   #99 
  - self delete, not worth it.  cosmik debris   May-28-08 12:24 PM   #100 
  - "I don't hate black people..."  Goblinmonger   May-28-08 12:34 PM   #103 
  - Deleted sub-thread  Name removed   May-28-08 12:39 PM   #104 
  - Straw-man ahoy!  varkam   May-28-08 09:08 PM   #128 
  - Of course it is an ad hominem. Fundamentalist christians IDENTIFY THEMSELVES as fundamentalist.  Evoman   May-28-08 12:32 PM   #102 
  - You've confused concepts  HamdenRice   May-28-08 12:43 PM   #106 
  - now evangelical means something? Since when?  Evoman   May-28-08 12:48 PM   #107 
     - A complete nonsense question  HamdenRice   May-28-08 12:49 PM   #108 
        - How is it incoherent?  Evoman   May-28-08 01:28 PM   #110 
  - Heres a suggestion: When called a fundie Atheist, ask.  heidler1   Jun-02-08 04:05 PM   #156 
     - "Fundie" = "fun loving"  uberllama42   Jun-02-08 04:48 PM   #159 
  - Well, I hope you've learned your lesson, varkam  uberllama42   May-28-08 01:34 PM   #111 
  - No doubt. It looks like it's time for our quarterly Religion forum flare up.  Evoman   May-28-08 01:40 PM   #112 
     - The common thread is easy to spot -->  HamdenRice   May-28-08 01:48 PM   #113 
        - Hehe....I just got an image of you with a brandishing a golden sword while riding a white horse.  Evoman   May-28-08 01:56 PM   #114 
        - Thank god for people like you.  Goblinmonger   May-28-08 02:13 PM   #117 
        - We are the overlords, Goblinmonger. We must maintain control,  Evoman   May-28-08 02:17 PM   #118 
           - So in the realm of evil overlords  Goblinmonger   May-28-08 02:44 PM   #121 
        - There is not a single question mark in the OP.  varkam   May-28-08 09:05 PM   #127 
  - "The terms are almost exclusively used by theists"  HamdenRice   May-28-08 02:03 PM   #115 
  - Exactly who in this thread  Goblinmonger   May-28-08 02:11 PM   #116 
  - A high school teacher by day, a anti-religious overlord by night.  Evoman   May-28-08 02:21 PM   #119 
     - I could really get into this if it were true.  Goblinmonger   May-28-08 02:26 PM   #120 
  - I think that if you were to take a poll on DU...  varkam   May-28-08 09:03 PM   #126 
  - Evangelical / Fundamentalist Atheism ??  and-justice-for-all   May-28-08 07:29 PM   #124 
  - But we all know that there are fundamentalist atheists  uberllama42   May-28-08 08:34 PM   #125 
  - That is such tripe....  and-justice-for-all   May-29-08 03:59 AM   #132 
  - The sources for my three definitions are as follows:  uberllama42   May-29-08 09:02 AM   #137 
     - I got the sarcasm  Goblinmonger   May-29-08 11:56 AM   #138 
     - Ooooo, can I join your horde?  cosmik debris   May-29-08 12:07 PM   #139 
     - You are sooooo in the horde.  Goblinmonger   May-29-08 12:42 PM   #140 
     - Also, I bet your +5 Rod of Truncated Reasoning  uberllama42   May-29-08 02:09 PM   #141 
     - +5?  Goblinmonger   May-29-08 04:05 PM   #142 
     - Sorry, I'm a moron and did not see the sarcasm...My Bad..nt  and-justice-for-all   May-29-08 06:29 PM   #144 
     - Response to 125, 132, 137  ironbark   May-31-08 08:04 AM   #150 
  - Yeah, most people are clearly missing the point of the thread  Goblinmonger   May-29-08 08:15 AM   #134 
  - The argument is one that cannot be won , and will perpetuate itself for all time.  pegleg   Jun-02-08 07:11 PM   #161 
  - "Strident, assertive, stubborn, or even assholery" -- do not describe an ontological position  HamdenRice   May-29-08 06:49 PM   #145 
  - Easy  varkam   May-30-08 05:09 PM   #149 
  - What an utterly bizarre irony!  HamdenRice   May-31-08 08:24 AM   #151 
  - Your dichotomy is a bit better this time around.  varkam   May-31-08 05:32 PM   #152 
  - The ad hom free alternative?  ironbark   Jun-01-08 09:03 AM   #153 
     - Asshole is still obviously an ad hom...  varkam   Jun-01-08 05:32 PM   #155 
     - Truncate Fundamentalist to Fundie then to Fun Loving Atheists would be nice.  heidler1   Jun-02-08 11:42 PM   #165 
        - It's not fair to just say "Christians"  uberllama42   Jun-03-08 07:19 AM   #166 
  - You are creating a false dilemma  TechBear_Seattle   Jun-03-08 08:55 AM   #167 
  - There are people who proudly identify themselves as Fundamentalist Christians  oktoberain   Jun-01-08 11:46 AM   #154 
  - Well, in general, I agree with you  JerseygirlCT   Jun-02-08 04:40 PM   #157 
  - Exactly.  varkam   Jun-03-08 05:23 PM   #169 
  - Wow! What a flamefest  conscious evolution   Jun-02-08 09:08 PM   #162 
     - I suspect that would depend strongly on which 'side' you are on  uberllama42   Jun-02-08 09:27 PM   #163 
     - It is important to note that the OP did not mean to start a flamefest n/t  MrWiggles   Jun-02-08 09:46 PM   #164 
        - I didn't! I swear!  varkam   Jun-03-08 05:15 PM   #168 

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