Silent3
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Sun May-25-08 05:23 PM
Response to Reply #70 |
| 71. Your post #34 is nothing more than a restatement of what's being disputed in this sub-thread. |
|
by this, I mean that certain atheists in R/T are the only people I regularly encounter who insist that if I consider myself a Christian, then I must interpret the Bible with a fundamentalist's literalism Asked to provide an example these people you "regularly encounter", you dither for a while, then eventually produce a quote from me, where indeed I was dealing with Biblical literalism, but where I wasn't addressing you or any other non-Fundamentalist, and where I certainly wasn't insisting that anyone be a literalist. I was talking about how horrible the version of God someone who claims to be a literalist would be have to be. I find it hard to see where you get from that, "Therefore, this God is such a horrible God, you'd better make sure you're a literalist if you call yourself a Christian so this horrible God of the literalists will be your God too!" No, you haven't "provide(d) a coherent parsing", or more to the point, provided sufficient example, of this type person you claim to regularly encounter. It's as if you claimed that you keep running into golfers who smoke, yet when asked to produce an example, you point triumphantly at a man playing golf who isn't smoking, isn't carrying cigarettes, and doesn't even smell faintly of tobacco, shouting, "There! See!?" Answering my post #57 would certainly help make it more clear exactly what you mean this thing is that you're claiming you encounter so regularly, but you seem very resistant to providing any such answer. And even if you had managed to show evidence that this insistence on literalism occurs regularly, you have yet to "provide a coherent parsing" that explains how A's insistence on B's fundamentalism in philosophy X makes A a fundamentalist of A's opposing not-X philosophy. The only way that could possibly work is if you go back to the OP's claim: "fundamentalist" is being used as nothing more than an vaguely defined insult, in this case used to accuse someone of generically obnoxious rhetorical behavior.
|
| -Evangelical / Fundamentalist Atheism as an ad hominem |
varkam |
May-23-08 05:26 PM |
#0 |
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It can't be an ad hominem because atheists aren't people n/t |
uberllama42 |
May-23-08 08:39 PM |
#1 |
-
Eminently reasonable, as always |
uberllama42 |
May-23-08 08:58 PM |
#2 |
-
Real Americans understand that politics isn't about nice rational argument: |
struggle4progress |
May-23-08 10:11 PM |
#3 |
-
The flaw in many people's thinking |
skepticscott |
May-23-08 10:36 PM |
#4 |
 -
Very true. |
knitter4democracy |
May-23-08 10:39 PM |
#6 |
-
I can't stand the terms, myself. |
knitter4democracy |
May-23-08 10:39 PM |
#5 |
-
Likewise… |
ironbark |
May-23-08 11:34 PM |
#7 |
 -
To quote the OP |
cosmik debris |
May-24-08 06:37 AM |
#8 |
 -
Well said. |
Jim__ |
May-24-08 07:08 AM |
#9 |
  -
Having read many of Varkam's posts |
MrWiggles |
May-24-08 07:40 AM |
#10 |
   -
Yes |
Dorian Gray |
May-26-08 09:24 AM |
#82 |
  -
“Both sides” is indicative of the problem. |
ironbark |
May-24-08 08:11 PM |
#43 |
 -
Sorry man |
MrWiggles |
May-24-08 08:05 AM |
#13 |
 -
Couple of things... |
varkam |
May-24-08 03:41 PM |
#29 |
  -
With respect Varkam |
ironbark |
May-24-08 08:04 PM |
#42 |
 -
I see. |
varkam |
May-24-08 10:08 PM |
#50 |
 -
Human and hypocritical? |
ironbark |
May-26-08 09:33 AM |
#84 |
 -
Excellent, objective analysis |
HamdenRice |
May-28-08 08:18 AM |
#96 |
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But the "bashing" |
Goblinmonger |
May-28-08 12:32 PM |
#101 |
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It's frustrating isn't it, that someone can be so unaware of their own mind. |
Evoman |
May-28-08 12:39 PM |
#105 |
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I can't see anyone being asked or told to "shut up". |
ironbark |
May-29-08 02:56 AM |
#131 |
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I understand that |
Goblinmonger |
May-29-08 08:06 AM |
#133 |
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You "understand that" no one is saying "shut up" in text.... |
ironbark |
May-29-08 08:49 AM |
#135 |
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Where have |
Goblinmonger |
May-29-08 09:02 AM |
#136 |
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Here....the general spirit made flesh |
ironbark |
May-29-08 05:54 PM |
#143 |
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Cool..some of those quotes are mine. |
Evoman |
May-29-08 06:54 PM |
#146 |
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I was asked for the evidence |
ironbark |
May-29-08 08:40 PM |
#147 |
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Ah, figured you come around at some point. |
varkam |
May-28-08 03:14 PM |
#122 |
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I hate the fundamentalist non-fundamentalists. |
cyborg_jim |
May-24-08 07:46 AM |
#11 |
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It is like calling a woman a "son of a bitch" |
cosmik debris |
May-24-08 08:04 AM |
#12 |
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Total aside.... |
Dorian Gray |
May-26-08 09:27 AM |
#83 |
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How would one describe offensively dogmatic atheists? |
Pigwidgeon |
May-24-08 09:09 AM |
#14 |
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"Dogmatic atheist?" |
Warpy |
May-24-08 10:55 AM |
#17 |
  -
Yes there are Nihilist Atheists, Humanist Atheists. Both Gandhi and Stalin were Atheists. |
Taverner |
May-24-08 03:30 PM |
#28 |
   -
It's still a meaningless pejorative |
Warpy |
May-24-08 03:48 PM |
#30 |
    -
Jesus fuck I agree and you jump on me |
Taverner |
May-24-08 07:33 PM |
#39 |
   -
But the term dogmatic atheist... |
varkam |
May-24-08 03:51 PM |
#32 |
    -
Then one could conceive of "assholery" as being the "dogma" |
Duke Newcombe |
May-30-08 05:00 PM |
#148 |
   -
Gandhi was a Hindu: he wrote a still-available commentary on the Gita, and some of his devotional |
struggle4progress |
May-25-08 02:30 PM |
#65 |
  -
He was also an Atheist - Hindus can be both |
Taverner |
May-25-08 03:15 PM |
#67 |
  -
An Atheist With Gandhi |
struggle4progress |
May-25-08 03:35 PM |
#68 |
  -
Did you even read that? |
Pigwidgeon |
May-24-08 04:16 PM |
#33 |
 -
Well, I hate to point this out, but... |
varkam |
May-24-08 03:50 PM |
#31 |
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What if they simply switch to the term "Agitprop Atheism"? |
Boojatta |
May-24-08 09:13 AM |
#15 |
 -
I prefer "Uppity" n/t |
PassingFair |
May-24-08 09:48 AM |
#16 |
  -
If you extract some consistent idea of... |
Boojatta |
May-24-08 12:32 PM |
#19 |
 -
LOL. Operatives on both sides catapulting divisiveness. |
Festivito |
May-24-08 12:39 PM |
#20 |
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Who are the operatives? |
Boojatta |
May-24-08 12:43 PM |
#21 |
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The un-tombstoned, the posting dead (of heart). |
Festivito |
May-24-08 01:08 PM |
#22 |
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The Hollow Men |
Goblinmonger |
May-24-08 08:22 PM |
#44 |
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Carry on, with a whimper, like it's the end of the world or something. |
Festivito |
May-24-08 09:38 PM |
#48 |
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"Yet, rational think-tanks contrive to divide us" |
Boojatta |
May-24-08 01:11 PM |
#23 |
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Know your enemy. Eminently rational. Devoid of heart. |
Festivito |
May-24-08 01:45 PM |
#24 |
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If this "heart" you speak of... |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-24-08 02:26 PM |
#25 |
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I use the word heart to speak respectfully to both sides. |
Festivito |
May-24-08 02:57 PM |
#26 |
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There's a distinction to be made between irrational and non-rational |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-24-08 05:07 PM |
#35 |
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There are more distinctions: What I'd see. What you'd see. |
Festivito |
May-24-08 06:21 PM |
#38 |
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Embracing the irrational... |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-24-08 07:37 PM |
#40 |
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Thanks. |
Festivito |
May-24-08 09:22 PM |
#46 |
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Atheism is a religion |
frogmarch |
May-24-08 11:16 AM |
#18 |
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Exactly. I couldn't have said it better myself |
Taverner |
May-24-08 03:29 PM |
#27 |
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But I encounter more "fundamentalist" arguments from atheists in R/T than anywhere else in my life: |
struggle4progress |
May-24-08 04:52 PM |
#34 |
 -
Please help me understand |
cosmik debris |
May-24-08 05:38 PM |
#36 |
  -
I share your confusion |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-24-08 07:40 PM |
#41 |
 -
I suspect that this will degenerate into a semantic argument |
cosmik debris |
May-24-08 08:50 PM |
#45 |
  -
You demand definitions while whining you can't expect more than semantics? *snork* |
struggle4progress |
May-24-08 10:53 PM |
#53 |
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I did not demand, I politely requested. |
cosmik debris |
May-25-08 07:40 AM |
#58 |
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OK: You request definitions while whining you can't expect more than semantics? Still *snork* |
struggle4progress |
May-25-08 01:01 PM |
#60 |
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And still no definition |
cosmik debris |
May-25-08 02:19 PM |
#64 |
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Riight! I can give a definition, then you can moan I'm playing semantic games. No thanks! Bye! |
struggle4progress |
May-25-08 06:18 PM |
#74 |
  -
I told you: "I'm not going to argue about your definition," |
cosmik debris |
May-25-08 06:24 PM |
#75 |
  -
Again, you proved me right. |
cosmik debris |
May-26-08 07:59 AM |
#80 |
 -
. |
struggle4progress |
May-26-08 05:02 PM |
#94 |
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working definition |
ironbark |
May-26-08 10:42 AM |
#85 |
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If you say so. |
cosmik debris |
May-26-08 11:08 AM |
#86 |
 -
Let me see... |
ironbark |
May-26-08 11:26 AM |
#87 |
  -
That figures |
cosmik debris |
May-26-08 11:54 AM |
#88 |
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My initial impulse |
ironbark |
May-26-08 12:41 PM |
#90 |
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So, you can't define "fundamentalist" without context? |
cosmik debris |
May-26-08 12:49 PM |
#91 |
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I don't think you need me |
ironbark |
May-26-08 12:55 PM |
#92 |
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Second thought…. |
ironbark |
May-26-08 12:17 PM |
#89 |
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Well, at least you are making sense now. Sorta. |
cosmik debris |
May-26-08 12:55 PM |
#93 |
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Yes, that is the way I use the term |
struggle4progress |
May-24-08 09:58 PM |
#49 |
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Umm... okay. |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-24-08 10:13 PM |
#51 |
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My use of the term seems clear enough and corresponds to an actual phenomenon |
struggle4progress |
May-24-08 10:18 PM |
#52 |
 -
As clear as is seems strange... |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-25-08 12:09 AM |
#54 |
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Playing innocent is disingenuous: you yourself regularly contribute to such threads, such as |
struggle4progress |
May-25-08 12:35 AM |
#55 |
 -
What on earth does this have to do... |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-25-08 06:55 AM |
#56 |
  -
You actually want me to read your post in context, instead of quoting it in isolation |
struggle4progress |
May-25-08 01:00 PM |
#59 |
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All that's coming through is that you have an enormous chip on your shoulder... |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-25-08 02:11 PM |
#62 |
 -
So my attempt to provide a coherent parsing of "fundamentalist atheist" (as |
struggle4progress |
May-25-08 02:43 PM |
#66 |
 -
Show me this "attempt to provide a coherent parsing"... |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-25-08 03:48 PM |
#69 |
  -
My post #34 was completely clear |
struggle4progress |
May-25-08 04:29 PM |
#70 |
 -
Your post #34 is nothing more than a restatement of what's being disputed in this sub-thread. |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-25-08 05:23 PM |
#71 |
 -
Okay, you have convinced me further effort is entirely pointless. Well-played! |
struggle4progress |
May-25-08 06:15 PM |
#72 |
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You haven't even TRIED to clarify. That's the point. |
Zhade |
May-25-08 08:44 PM |
#76 |
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Out of curiousity, which form is this alleged insistence of mine taking? |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-25-08 07:14 AM |
#57 |
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Well, in that thread... |
varkam |
May-25-08 02:09 PM |
#61 |
 -
I think I must renew my intention to avoid philosophical discussions, as a continuing source of |
struggle4progress |
May-25-08 06:17 PM |
#73 |
 -
That seems a rather silly reason to abandon philosophical discussion. |
varkam |
May-25-08 09:34 PM |
#77 |
 -
Huh? |
Kerry4Kerry |
May-24-08 05:39 PM |
#37 |
 -
Are there atheists that insist that if you consider yourself a Christian... |
varkam |
May-25-08 02:11 PM |
#63 |
 -
Hahah...I dare you to look up the phrase "True Christian" in the Search option. |
Evoman |
May-25-08 11:07 PM |
#78 |
  -
I'd waste way too much time looking at Landover Baptist or similar stuff: |
struggle4progress |
May-26-08 12:31 AM |
#79 |
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I've had this discussion with you before |
Goblinmonger |
May-28-08 01:28 PM |
#109 |
  -
You would (I think) set up two scarecrows and insist I choose between them -- your own decision |
struggle4progress |
May-28-08 05:01 PM |
#123 |
   -
So you berate me |
Goblinmonger |
May-28-08 11:48 PM |
#129 |
  -
Have a nice day |
struggle4progress |
May-29-08 12:21 AM |
#130 |
  -
Except that your point doesn't fit |
JerseygirlCT |
Jun-02-08 04:51 PM |
#160 |
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LOL |
JerseygirlCT |
Jun-02-08 04:47 PM |
#158 |
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Yes absolutely. |
turtlensue |
May-24-08 09:35 PM |
#47 |
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I always enjoy reading |
Dorian Gray |
May-26-08 09:23 AM |
#81 |
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As an atheist, I use "fundamentalist atheist" to distinguish myself ... |
HamdenRice |
May-28-08 08:00 AM |
#95 |
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Oh the irony...... |
Evoman |
May-28-08 09:45 AM |
#97 |
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I think most people will take 'narrow-mindedness' and 'intolerance' |
muriel_volestrangler |
May-28-08 11:34 AM |
#98 |
  -
Most of the time, if someone says they are objective, it means that they aren't. |
Evoman |
May-28-08 12:12 PM |
#99 |
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self delete, not worth it. |
cosmik debris |
May-28-08 12:24 PM |
#100 |
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"I don't hate black people..." |
Goblinmonger |
May-28-08 12:34 PM |
#103 |
  -
Deleted sub-thread |
Name removed |
May-28-08 12:39 PM |
#104 |
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Straw-man ahoy! |
varkam |
May-28-08 09:08 PM |
#128 |
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Of course it is an ad hominem. Fundamentalist christians IDENTIFY THEMSELVES as fundamentalist. |
Evoman |
May-28-08 12:32 PM |
#102 |
 -
You've confused concepts |
HamdenRice |
May-28-08 12:43 PM |
#106 |
  -
Lol....so now evangelical means something? Since when? |
Evoman |
May-28-08 12:48 PM |
#107 |
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A complete nonsense question |
HamdenRice |
May-28-08 12:49 PM |
#108 |
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How is it incoherent? |
Evoman |
May-28-08 01:28 PM |
#110 |
 -
Heres a suggestion: When called a fundie Atheist, ask. |
heidler1 |
Jun-02-08 04:05 PM |
#156 |
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"Fundie" = "fun loving" |
uberllama42 |
Jun-02-08 04:48 PM |
#159 |
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Well, I hope you've learned your lesson, varkam |
uberllama42 |
May-28-08 01:34 PM |
#111 |
 -
No doubt. It looks like it's time for our quarterly Religion forum flare up. |
Evoman |
May-28-08 01:40 PM |
#112 |
-
The common thread is easy to spot --> |
HamdenRice |
May-28-08 01:48 PM |
#113 |
-
Hehe....I just got an image of you with a brandishing a golden sword while riding a white horse. |
Evoman |
May-28-08 01:56 PM |
#114 |
-
Thank god for people like you. |
Goblinmonger |
May-28-08 02:13 PM |
#117 |
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We are the overlords, Goblinmonger. We must maintain control, |
Evoman |
May-28-08 02:17 PM |
#118 |
-
So in the realm of evil overlords |
Goblinmonger |
May-28-08 02:44 PM |
#121 |
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There is not a single question mark in the OP. |
varkam |
May-28-08 09:05 PM |
#127 |
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"The terms are almost exclusively used by theists" |
HamdenRice |
May-28-08 02:03 PM |
#115 |
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Exactly who in this thread |
Goblinmonger |
May-28-08 02:11 PM |
#116 |
  -
A high school teacher by day, a anti-religious overlord by night. |
Evoman |
May-28-08 02:21 PM |
#119 |
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I could really get into this if it were true. |
Goblinmonger |
May-28-08 02:26 PM |
#120 |
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I think that if you were to take a poll on DU... |
varkam |
May-28-08 09:03 PM |
#126 |
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Evangelical / Fundamentalist Atheism ?? |
and-justice-for-all |
May-28-08 07:29 PM |
#124 |
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But we all know that there are fundamentalist atheists |
uberllama42 |
May-28-08 08:34 PM |
#125 |
  -
That is such tripe.... |
and-justice-for-all |
May-29-08 03:59 AM |
#132 |
   -
The sources for my three definitions are as follows: |
uberllama42 |
May-29-08 09:02 AM |
#137 |
  -
I got the sarcasm |
Goblinmonger |
May-29-08 11:56 AM |
#138 |
   -
Ooooo, can I join your horde? |
cosmik debris |
May-29-08 12:07 PM |
#139 |
    -
You are sooooo in the horde. |
Goblinmonger |
May-29-08 12:42 PM |
#140 |
   -
Also, I bet your +5 Rod of Truncated Reasoning |
uberllama42 |
May-29-08 02:09 PM |
#141 |
    -
+5? |
Goblinmonger |
May-29-08 04:05 PM |
#142 |
   -
Sorry, I'm a moron and did not see the sarcasm...My Bad..nt |
and-justice-for-all |
May-29-08 06:29 PM |
#144 |
  -
Response to 125, 132, 137 |
ironbark |
May-31-08 08:04 AM |
#150 |
  -
Yeah, most people are clearly missing the point of the thread |
Goblinmonger |
May-29-08 08:15 AM |
#134 |
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The argument is one that cannot be won , and will perpetuate itself for all time. |
pegleg |
Jun-02-08 07:11 PM |
#161 |
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"Strident, assertive, stubborn, or even assholery" -- do not describe an ontological position |
HamdenRice |
May-29-08 06:49 PM |
#145 |
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Easy |
varkam |
May-30-08 05:09 PM |
#149 |
  -
What an utterly bizarre irony! |
HamdenRice |
May-31-08 08:24 AM |
#151 |
   -
Your dichotomy is a bit better this time around. |
varkam |
May-31-08 05:32 PM |
#152 |
  -
The ad hom free alternative? |
ironbark |
Jun-01-08 09:03 AM |
#153 |
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Asshole is still obviously an ad hom... |
varkam |
Jun-01-08 05:32 PM |
#155 |
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Truncate Fundamentalist to Fundie then to Fun Loving Atheists would be nice. |
heidler1 |
Jun-02-08 11:42 PM |
#165 |
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It's not fair to just say "Christians" |
uberllama42 |
Jun-03-08 07:19 AM |
#166 |
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You are creating a false dilemma |
TechBear_Seattle |
Jun-03-08 08:55 AM |
#167 |
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There are people who proudly identify themselves as Fundamentalist Christians |
oktoberain |
Jun-01-08 11:46 AM |
#154 |
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Well, in general, I agree with you |
JerseygirlCT |
Jun-02-08 04:40 PM |
#157 |
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Exactly. |
varkam |
Jun-03-08 05:23 PM |
#169 |
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Wow! What a flamefest |
conscious evolution |
Jun-02-08 09:08 PM |
#162 |
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I suspect that would depend strongly on which 'side' you are on |
uberllama42 |
Jun-02-08 09:27 PM |
#163 |
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It is important to note that the OP did not mean to start a flamefest n/t |
MrWiggles |
Jun-02-08 09:46 PM |
#164 |
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I didn't! I swear! |
varkam |
Jun-03-08 05:15 PM |
#168 |