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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-05-07 09:09 AM
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15. There is no way around the fact...
...that religion is irrational. That doesn't automatically make it a mental illness. I think that any religion that ignores or contradicts known and observed phenomena can be correctly construed as a mental illness. Some are obviously serious, some no more a mental illness than hanging a horseshoe on a garage or barn, open side up, for good luck.

But even in the case of severe religious contradictions of reality, I doubt that it's helpful or persuasive to call religion a mental illness.
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  -Can we PLEASE stop equating religion with mental illness of any sort? turtlensue  Sep-05-07 07:55 AM   #0 
  - no. nt.  endarkenment   Sep-05-07 08:01 AM   #1 
  - thats not helpful.  turtlensue   Sep-05-07 08:03 AM   #2 
     - You asked and I replied.  endarkenment   Sep-05-07 08:08 AM   #3 
        - a small quibble  northernsoul   Sep-05-07 08:48 AM   #10 
        - I am not a psychiatrist and am not constrained by the DSM  endarkenment   Sep-05-07 08:56 AM   #12 
           - You're only showing that some people with mental illness have religious  BuffyTheFundieSlayer   Sep-05-07 02:46 PM   #57 
        - Pretending and history  theredpen   Sep-05-07 09:46 AM   #24 
        - Both Bush and bin Laden claim God tells them what to do.  endarkenment   Sep-05-07 10:01 AM   #26 
        - Lots of things are used as excuses  theredpen   Sep-05-07 10:26 AM   #27 
        - And if the neocons are following the advice of their mentor Leo Strauss  Lydia Leftcoast   Sep-05-07 01:31 PM   #46 
           - true indeed  endarkenment   Sep-05-07 02:08 PM   #48 
           - Why did Strauss recommend religion as a means of manipulation?  northernsoul   Sep-05-07 02:46 PM   #56 
              - Religion evokes an emotional response  theredpen   Sep-05-07 04:04 PM   #71 
                 - I don't think it is all that new. What the neo con right wing preachers are doing now  truedelphi   Sep-07-07 02:13 PM   #112 
        - While I wouldn't say  2beToby   Sep-05-07 12:46 PM   #39 
           - I've never said all religious people are mentally insane.  endarkenment   Sep-05-07 01:04 PM   #42 
              - I agree. One thing that keeps getting left out of the details is, it's not just the fundies.  heidler1   Sep-06-07 02:46 AM   #94 
                 - What are we going to do about that?  theredpen   Sep-06-07 07:21 PM   #105 
                 - Your snarky reply won't help, but reminding the Christian voters that they got sucked in might.  heidler1   Sep-06-07 10:55 PM   #107 
                    - No God lets Bush cry on his shoulder  theredpen   Sep-06-07 11:30 PM   #108 
                       - From where I sit it looks like the Christians want to take over the government.  heidler1   Sep-07-07 12:34 AM   #109 
                          - Oh no you did NOT just reference Ayn Rand  theredpen   Sep-07-07 12:42 AM   #110 
                 - Hey....  MrWiggles   Sep-06-07 07:53 PM   #106 
        - But aren't you overlooking that eight to fifty million  truedelphi   Sep-06-07 12:02 PM   #100 
        - 8 to 50 million?  theredpen   Sep-06-07 07:05 PM   #104 
        - PBS in the San Francisco area had a TV documentary titled  truedelphi   Sep-07-07 02:26 PM   #113 
           - So, you don't really know where these numbers come from  theredpen   Sep-07-07 03:36 PM   #114 
              - Article from a Sandra Miesele says this:  truedelphi   Sep-07-07 09:51 PM   #115 
                 - If the self-proclaimed spokespeople for pagans insist on making up bogus statistics  theredpen   Sep-11-07 10:26 AM   #117 
        - The medieval Catholic Church in general and the Inquisition  okasha   Sep-07-07 10:48 PM   #116 
        - While I won't address the OP....  DeSwiss   Feb-05-08 11:23 PM   #139 
        - No psychologist/psychiatrist in the world would call them insane  wryter2000   Sep-05-07 02:47 PM   #58 
        - so "some" behaviour entitles you to be an ass to all? nt  skater314159   Feb-04-08 04:50 PM   #133 
  - that wouldn't be accurate...hyper-religiousity can be a symptom of several  Mend   Sep-05-07 08:08 AM   #4 
  - I'm not saying their aren't mentally ill people who aren't religious  turtlensue   Sep-05-07 11:34 AM   #29 
  - Religious people are perfectly mentally stable.  youthere   Sep-05-07 08:20 AM   #5 
  - Did you see the second episode they had her on?  YOY   Sep-05-07 02:18 PM   #49 
  - being mentally ill doesn't depend upon religion. look at stalin.  roguevalley   Sep-05-07 02:32 PM   #51 
  - Hearing voices and believing in illusory reality is not mental illness?  TechBear_Seattle   Sep-05-07 08:27 AM   #6 
  - But that is not true of all religion.  cosmik debris   Sep-05-07 09:14 AM   #16 
  - I will concede your point  TechBear_Seattle   Sep-05-07 09:22 AM   #19 
  - The OP asked us to stop making any comparisons.  endarkenment   Sep-05-07 09:23 AM   #20 
     - You don't have to say everything you know.  cosmik debris   Sep-05-07 09:29 AM   #22 
  - Then you are insane. But that has to do with your neurotransmitters!  turtlensue   Sep-05-07 11:38 AM   #31 
  - Good post, Turtlensue. Mental illness is indeed a serious  Rydz777   Sep-05-07 08:31 AM   #7 
  - At the very least, we should specify exactly which illness  cosmik debris   Sep-05-07 08:39 AM   #8 
  - As DU is a peer reviewed board for publication of  endarkenment   Sep-05-07 09:26 AM   #21 
     - And your point is consistent with mental illness  cosmik debris   Sep-05-07 09:39 AM   #23 
  - We see bush's action every day. While  Bitwit1234   Sep-05-07 08:41 AM   #9 
  - bush uses the facade of religion to justify his world view. if you take  roguevalley   Sep-05-07 02:39 PM   #52 
  - Absolutely. All you have to do is to show why religion is not a mental illness  jgraz   Sep-05-07 08:50 AM   #11 
  - What can possibly be wrong with building your core identity around beliefs which have no evidence?  IanDB1   Sep-05-07 09:21 AM   #18 
     - let me ask you this..  turtlensue   Sep-05-07 11:50 AM   #33 
        - I agree with you, and that is not the point I was making. n/t  IanDB1   Sep-05-07 12:06 PM   #36 
        - The criterion is not behaving irrationally  jgraz   Sep-05-07 12:55 PM   #41 
  - Humor and depresssion might not be linked but being a comic  Heaven and Earth   Sep-05-07 08:59 AM   #13 
  - You are correct that 'mental illness' is serious, but I will always believe that  sinkingfeeling   Sep-05-07 09:04 AM   #14 
  - There is no way around the fact...  Birthmark   Sep-05-07 09:09 AM   #15 
  - There is compelling evidence that religiosity has an organic component, just as mental illness does.  IanDB1   Sep-05-07 09:20 AM   #17 
  - Good post. I entirely agree.  HamdenRice   Sep-05-07 09:52 AM   #25 
  - I actually enjoyed reading your post  Goblinmonger   Sep-05-07 11:11 AM   #28 
     - its ok to hate atheists and scientologists.  endarkenment   Sep-05-07 11:38 AM   #30 
     - Yeah, I want a Kate Hudson  Goblinmonger   Sep-05-07 11:43 AM   #32 
        - Kate Hudson is a "Jew-Buh"  PassingFair   Feb-02-08 10:19 PM   #123 
     - Probably for the same reason they're on my ignore list. n/t  IanDB1   Sep-05-07 12:07 PM   #37 
     - So what word would you use?  HamdenRice   Sep-05-07 12:53 PM   #40 
        - who is proposing (4)?  endarkenment   Sep-05-07 01:06 PM   #44 
        - Did you read the OP?  HamdenRice   Sep-05-07 10:13 PM   #91 
           - Really?  endarkenment   Sep-06-07 01:54 PM   #103 
        - #3 overstates the position  northernsoul   Sep-05-07 02:56 PM   #60 
        - Who's stating number 3? eom  varkam   Sep-05-07 10:22 PM   #92 
           - I'm referring to post #40  northernsoul   Sep-06-07 12:03 PM   #101 
  - clarification  turtlensue   Sep-05-07 12:00 PM   #34 
  - I'm with you.  Evoman   Sep-05-07 12:01 PM   #35 
  - I just put those people on ignore  Marrah_G   Sep-05-07 12:30 PM   #38 
  - on pitching insults....  mike_c   Sep-05-07 01:52 PM   #47 
  - There are delusional religious people and delusional athiests  Marrah_G   Sep-06-07 06:37 AM   #95 
     - I was once married to an alcoholic...  mike_c   Sep-06-07 10:33 AM   #97 
        - We probably agree on many things  Marrah_G   Sep-06-07 11:29 AM   #98 
  - Putting all the atheists on 'ignore' must have emptied the!  Dover   Feb-05-08 05:04 PM   #136 
     - It waxes and wanes  moggie   Feb-05-08 06:45 PM   #137 
     - "waxes and wanes"...?  Dover   Feb-05-08 10:33 PM   #138 
     - It isn't about putting athiests on ignore- it is about putting asshoes on ignore  Marrah_G   Feb-07-08 08:07 AM   #141 
  - I disagree with you-- religion IS mental illness of a sort...  mike_c   Sep-05-07 01:05 PM   #43 
  - Sorry, but in many cases it is  lynyrd_skynyrd   Sep-05-07 01:12 PM   #45 
  - You don't seem to be describing religion so much as ideologues.  Pacifist Patriot   Sep-05-07 02:32 PM   #50 
  - Don't call them insane then  Hydra   Sep-05-07 02:40 PM   #53 
  - Thank you.  Pacifist Patriot   Sep-05-07 02:44 PM   #54 
  - I've always considered it like glasses, you know?  badgerpup   Sep-05-07 02:45 PM   #55 
  - So there IS a god for some people and for others there really ISN'T?  FiveGoodMen   Sep-05-07 02:58 PM   #61 
     - If there really is a god...  badgerpup   Sep-05-07 10:33 PM   #93 
        - I'll second that!  FiveGoodMen   Sep-06-07 12:23 PM   #102 
  - But, it's oh so creative and insightful, dontcha know?  wryter2000   Sep-05-07 02:48 PM   #59 
  - IMO religion is better compared to dogmatic ideologies like Marxism.  Odin2005   Sep-05-07 03:02 PM   #62 
  - Dogmatic religions are dogmatic ideologies, but not all religions are dogmatic.  lvx35   Sep-05-07 03:06 PM   #63 
     - Religion does not equal Spirituality, Religion is DOGMATIC Spirituality.  Odin2005   Sep-05-07 03:13 PM   #65 
        - Ah, but it does, that's the tricky part.  lvx35   Sep-05-07 03:19 PM   #66 
        - I would not call my religion dogmatic.  Marrah_G   Sep-06-07 06:38 AM   #96 
  - Thank you. The equating of ideological dissent with mental illness comes strait from the Soviet...  lvx35   Sep-05-07 03:08 PM   #64 
  - Plenty of religious people think God talks directly to them.  smoogatz   Sep-05-07 03:46 PM   #69 
     - I don't have problems with equating certain behaviors with mental illness,  lvx35   Sep-05-07 04:01 PM   #70 
        - Lots of mentally ill people are functional.  smoogatz   Sep-05-07 04:14 PM   #72 
           - I see a difference there.  lvx35   Sep-05-07 04:26 PM   #75 
           - So if you're functional and don't seek treatment, you're fine?  smoogatz   Sep-05-07 04:32 PM   #76 
              - In the eyes of mental health, yes.  lvx35   Sep-05-07 04:33 PM   #78 
                 - You might want to read up on Dahmer and get back to me:  smoogatz   Sep-05-07 04:36 PM   #81 
           - By the way, thanks.  lvx35   Sep-05-07 04:32 PM   #77 
              - My complaint isn't with religion, it's with the way religion is privileged  smoogatz   Sep-05-07 04:35 PM   #79 
                 - Right, and I basically support you in that.  lvx35   Sep-05-07 04:50 PM   #84 
  - I'm a little confused by your post.  smoogatz   Sep-05-07 03:19 PM   #67 
  - Here's what I am saying  turtlensue   Sep-05-07 04:23 PM   #73 
     - What if God tells you to home-school your kids  smoogatz   Sep-05-07 04:25 PM   #74 
        - I think if you think God is talking to you..  turtlensue   Sep-05-07 04:36 PM   #80 
           - That's just not true.  smoogatz   Sep-05-07 04:40 PM   #82 
           - so based on the actions of SOME  turtlensue   Sep-05-07 04:44 PM   #83 
              - Like I said, to me most religious experience looks like mild delusion--  smoogatz   Sep-05-07 06:23 PM   #87 
           - What about people who think THEY are talking TO god?  PassingFair   Feb-02-08 10:31 PM   #125 
  - Thank you Turtlensue. It does get pretty tiresome nt  JerseygirlCT   Sep-05-07 03:37 PM   #68 
  - If you genuinely think that god told you to murder people  Heaven and Earth   Sep-05-07 04:53 PM   #85 
  - Apparently, some people cannot. I don't know...  TreasonousBastard   Sep-05-07 05:59 PM   #86 
  - You say crazy like it's a BAD thing.....  TalkingDog   Sep-05-07 08:11 PM   #88 
  - I agree.  varkam   Sep-05-07 08:44 PM   #89 
  - Bill Moyers is a Baptist minister. I don't believe he is mentally ill.  Old Crusoe   Sep-05-07 09:14 PM   #90 
  - Some people think saying half the forum is mentally ill is a great way to open communication  Marrah_G   Sep-06-07 11:47 AM   #99 
  - Problem of terminology/Degree?  Realityhack   Sep-07-07 07:05 AM   #111 
  - If it is, then Obama, H. Clinton, Edwards, Kerry and Bill Clinton are all mentally insane.  Exiled in America   Sep-16-07 12:46 PM   #118 
  - If it is, then Bill Moyers, Martin Luther King, John and Bobby Kennedy were all insane.  Exiled in America   Sep-16-07 12:48 PM   #119 
  - +++ Accidental duplicate deleted +++  ZoltanZ   Feb-02-08 07:17 PM   #120 
  - PLEASE stop equating religion with mental illness  ZoltanZ   Feb-02-08 07:29 PM   #121 
  - I think you might be misreading the OP.  varkam   Feb-02-08 10:27 PM   #124 
  - when religion is sane. I am ok with it.  zonmoy   Feb-02-08 08:24 PM   #122 
  - If much good can come of one's being inspired to be kinder to others  Old Crusoe   Feb-03-08 05:17 AM   #126 
  - To me, its never been proved that Christianity is the source of inspirations.  heidler1   Feb-03-08 01:44 PM   #127 
     - I'm cool with that, heidler1, but was just saying that no matter the  Old Crusoe   Feb-03-08 09:31 PM   #128 
        - Dobson's hatefulness proves to me that he is incapable of reciprocal kindness.  heidler1   Feb-04-08 12:29 PM   #129 
           - Dobson's is a dark poison. Have you seen the bumpser sticker that says  Old Crusoe   Feb-04-08 01:45 PM   #130 
              - We have a whole crop of people in leadership positions that are using religion to con their follower  heidler1   Feb-04-08 02:40 PM   #131 
                 - Yes. The manipulation lever is going to need all new parts once this  Old Crusoe   Feb-04-08 05:31 PM   #134 
  - I do not suppose religious people are mentally ill.  Deep13   Feb-04-08 03:45 PM   #132 
  - Sorry, I've been thinking about this. Exorcism is definately....  PassingFair   Feb-04-08 07:46 PM   #135 
  - I just put assholes who say shit like that on ignore- They aren't worth knowing.  Marrah_G   Feb-07-08 08:04 AM   #140 
  - Well there has to be some reason why so many think that..  and-justice-for-all   Feb-07-08 08:43 PM   #142 
  - I have an officially mentally ill brother  sleebarker   Feb-09-08 11:17 AM   #143 

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