endarkenment
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Wed Sep-05-07 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #10 |
| 12. I am not a psychiatrist and am not constrained by the DSM |
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insane to me is what I observe to be insane. How about messianic psychosis if we are going to quibble? Clinical features of messianic delusions in endogenous psychoses have been retrospectively studied in 75 patients (33 male, 42 female, aged 16-62 years, illness duration from 0.5 to 39 years) with diagnosis paranoid schizophrenia, continuous type (F20.00)--18 patients, attack like progressive type (F20.02)--17 patients, schizoaffective disorder (F25)--27 and acute polymorphic psychotic disorder (F23.03)--13. Being a kind of delusion of grandeur, messianic delusion is characterized by destruction of "self" as break with the past experience, transformation to mythological characters (total depersonalization) and assignment of supernatural power. Its content is similar to apocalyptical, mystical, antagonistic (Manicheam) delusions. Formation of the delusion plot occurred in the framework of hallucinate-paranoid syndrome received its greatest expression in the structure of paraphrenic and oneiroid syndromes. The volume of its content, duration and mechanisms of delusion formation (hallucinative, sensual and delusion of imagination) were defined by a form of schizophrenic psychosis. Sometimes such patients confer social danger and demand more attention from psychiatrists. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=... I believe this qualifies.
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| -Can we PLEASE stop equating religion with mental illness of any sort? |
turtlensue |
Sep-05-07 07:55 AM |
#0 |
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no. nt. |
endarkenment |
Sep-05-07 08:01 AM |
#1 |
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thats not helpful. |
turtlensue |
Sep-05-07 08:03 AM |
#2 |
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You asked and I replied. |
endarkenment |
Sep-05-07 08:08 AM |
#3 |
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a small quibble |
northernsoul |
Sep-05-07 08:48 AM |
#10 |
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I am not a psychiatrist and am not constrained by the DSM |
endarkenment |
Sep-05-07 08:56 AM |
#12 |
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You're only showing that some people with mental illness have religious |
BuffyTheFundieSlayer |
Sep-05-07 02:46 PM |
#57 |
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Pretending and history |
theredpen |
Sep-05-07 09:46 AM |
#24 |
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Both Bush and bin Laden claim God tells them what to do. |
endarkenment |
Sep-05-07 10:01 AM |
#26 |
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Lots of things are used as excuses |
theredpen |
Sep-05-07 10:26 AM |
#27 |
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And if the neocons are following the advice of their mentor Leo Strauss |
Lydia Leftcoast |
Sep-05-07 01:31 PM |
#46 |
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true indeed |
endarkenment |
Sep-05-07 02:08 PM |
#48 |
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Why did Strauss recommend religion as a means of manipulation? |
northernsoul |
Sep-05-07 02:46 PM |
#56 |
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Religion evokes an emotional response |
theredpen |
Sep-05-07 04:04 PM |
#71 |
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I don't think it is all that new. What the neo con right wing preachers are doing now |
truedelphi |
Sep-07-07 02:13 PM |
#112 |
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While I wouldn't say |
2beToby |
Sep-05-07 12:46 PM |
#39 |
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I've never said all religious people are mentally insane. |
endarkenment |
Sep-05-07 01:04 PM |
#42 |
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I agree. One thing that keeps getting left out of the details is, it's not just the fundies. |
heidler1 |
Sep-06-07 02:46 AM |
#94 |
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What are we going to do about that? |
theredpen |
Sep-06-07 07:21 PM |
#105 |
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Your snarky reply won't help, but reminding the Christian voters that they got sucked in might. |
heidler1 |
Sep-06-07 10:55 PM |
#107 |
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No God lets Bush cry on his shoulder |
theredpen |
Sep-06-07 11:30 PM |
#108 |
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From where I sit it looks like the Christians want to take over the government. |
heidler1 |
Sep-07-07 12:34 AM |
#109 |
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Oh no you did NOT just reference Ayn Rand |
theredpen |
Sep-07-07 12:42 AM |
#110 |
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Hey.... |
MrWiggles |
Sep-06-07 07:53 PM |
#106 |
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But aren't you overlooking that eight to fifty million |
truedelphi |
Sep-06-07 12:02 PM |
#100 |
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8 to 50 million? |
theredpen |
Sep-06-07 07:05 PM |
#104 |
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PBS in the San Francisco area had a TV documentary titled |
truedelphi |
Sep-07-07 02:26 PM |
#113 |
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So, you don't really know where these numbers come from |
theredpen |
Sep-07-07 03:36 PM |
#114 |
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Article from a Sandra Miesele says this: |
truedelphi |
Sep-07-07 09:51 PM |
#115 |
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If the self-proclaimed spokespeople for pagans insist on making up bogus statistics |
theredpen |
Sep-11-07 10:26 AM |
#117 |
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The medieval Catholic Church in general and the Inquisition |
okasha |
Sep-07-07 10:48 PM |
#116 |
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While I won't address the OP.... |
DeSwiss |
Feb-05-08 11:23 PM |
#139 |
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No psychologist/psychiatrist in the world would call them insane |
wryter2000 |
Sep-05-07 02:47 PM |
#58 |
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so "some" behaviour entitles you to be an ass to all? nt |
skater314159 |
Feb-04-08 04:50 PM |
#133 |
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that wouldn't be accurate...hyper-religiousity can be a symptom of several |
Mend |
Sep-05-07 08:08 AM |
#4 |
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I'm not saying their aren't mentally ill people who aren't religious |
turtlensue |
Sep-05-07 11:34 AM |
#29 |
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Religious people are perfectly mentally stable. |
youthere |
Sep-05-07 08:20 AM |
#5 |
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Did you see the second episode they had her on? |
YOY |
Sep-05-07 02:18 PM |
#49 |
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being mentally ill doesn't depend upon religion. look at stalin. |
roguevalley |
Sep-05-07 02:32 PM |
#51 |
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Hearing voices and believing in illusory reality is not mental illness? |
TechBear_Seattle |
Sep-05-07 08:27 AM |
#6 |
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But that is not true of all religion. |
cosmik debris |
Sep-05-07 09:14 AM |
#16 |
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I will concede your point |
TechBear_Seattle |
Sep-05-07 09:22 AM |
#19 |
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The OP asked us to stop making any comparisons. |
endarkenment |
Sep-05-07 09:23 AM |
#20 |
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You don't have to say everything you know. |
cosmik debris |
Sep-05-07 09:29 AM |
#22 |
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Then you are insane. But that has to do with your neurotransmitters! |
turtlensue |
Sep-05-07 11:38 AM |
#31 |
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Good post, Turtlensue. Mental illness is indeed a serious |
Rydz777 |
Sep-05-07 08:31 AM |
#7 |
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At the very least, we should specify exactly which illness |
cosmik debris |
Sep-05-07 08:39 AM |
#8 |
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As DU is a peer reviewed board for publication of |
endarkenment |
Sep-05-07 09:26 AM |
#21 |
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And your point is consistent with mental illness |
cosmik debris |
Sep-05-07 09:39 AM |
#23 |
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We see bush's action every day. While |
Bitwit1234 |
Sep-05-07 08:41 AM |
#9 |
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bush uses the facade of religion to justify his world view. if you take |
roguevalley |
Sep-05-07 02:39 PM |
#52 |
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Absolutely. All you have to do is to show why religion is not a mental illness |
jgraz |
Sep-05-07 08:50 AM |
#11 |
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What can possibly be wrong with building your core identity around beliefs which have no evidence? |
IanDB1 |
Sep-05-07 09:21 AM |
#18 |
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let me ask you this.. |
turtlensue |
Sep-05-07 11:50 AM |
#33 |
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I agree with you, and that is not the point I was making. n/t |
IanDB1 |
Sep-05-07 12:06 PM |
#36 |
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The criterion is not behaving irrationally |
jgraz |
Sep-05-07 12:55 PM |
#41 |
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Humor and depresssion might not be linked but being a comic |
Heaven and Earth |
Sep-05-07 08:59 AM |
#13 |
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You are correct that 'mental illness' is serious, but I will always believe that |
sinkingfeeling |
Sep-05-07 09:04 AM |
#14 |
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There is no way around the fact... |
Birthmark |
Sep-05-07 09:09 AM |
#15 |
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There is compelling evidence that religiosity has an organic component, just as mental illness does. |
IanDB1 |
Sep-05-07 09:20 AM |
#17 |
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Good post. I entirely agree. |
HamdenRice |
Sep-05-07 09:52 AM |
#25 |
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I actually enjoyed reading your post |
Goblinmonger |
Sep-05-07 11:11 AM |
#28 |
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its ok to hate atheists and scientologists. |
endarkenment |
Sep-05-07 11:38 AM |
#30 |
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Yeah, I want a Kate Hudson |
Goblinmonger |
Sep-05-07 11:43 AM |
#32 |
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Kate Hudson is a "Jew-Buh" |
PassingFair |
Feb-02-08 10:19 PM |
#123 |
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Probably for the same reason they're on my ignore list. n/t |
IanDB1 |
Sep-05-07 12:07 PM |
#37 |
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So what word would you use? |
HamdenRice |
Sep-05-07 12:53 PM |
#40 |
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who is proposing (4)? |
endarkenment |
Sep-05-07 01:06 PM |
#44 |
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Did you read the OP? |
HamdenRice |
Sep-05-07 10:13 PM |
#91 |
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Really? |
endarkenment |
Sep-06-07 01:54 PM |
#103 |
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#3 overstates the position |
northernsoul |
Sep-05-07 02:56 PM |
#60 |
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Who's stating number 3? eom |
varkam |
Sep-05-07 10:22 PM |
#92 |
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I'm referring to post #40 |
northernsoul |
Sep-06-07 12:03 PM |
#101 |
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clarification |
turtlensue |
Sep-05-07 12:00 PM |
#34 |
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I'm with you. |
Evoman |
Sep-05-07 12:01 PM |
#35 |
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I just put those people on ignore |
Marrah_G |
Sep-05-07 12:30 PM |
#38 |
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on pitching insults.... |
mike_c |
Sep-05-07 01:52 PM |
#47 |
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There are delusional religious people and delusional athiests |
Marrah_G |
Sep-06-07 06:37 AM |
#95 |
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I was once married to an alcoholic... |
mike_c |
Sep-06-07 10:33 AM |
#97 |
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We probably agree on many things |
Marrah_G |
Sep-06-07 11:29 AM |
#98 |
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Putting all the atheists on 'ignore' must have emptied the forum...lol! |
Dover |
Feb-05-08 05:04 PM |
#136 |
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It waxes and wanes |
moggie |
Feb-05-08 06:45 PM |
#137 |
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"waxes and wanes"...? |
Dover |
Feb-05-08 10:33 PM |
#138 |
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It isn't about putting athiests on ignore- it is about putting asshoes on ignore |
Marrah_G |
Feb-07-08 08:07 AM |
#141 |
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I disagree with you-- religion IS mental illness of a sort... |
mike_c |
Sep-05-07 01:05 PM |
#43 |
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Sorry, but in many cases it is |
lynyrd_skynyrd |
Sep-05-07 01:12 PM |
#45 |
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You don't seem to be describing religion so much as ideologues. |
Pacifist Patriot |
Sep-05-07 02:32 PM |
#50 |
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Don't call them insane then |
Hydra |
Sep-05-07 02:40 PM |
#53 |
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Thank you. |
Pacifist Patriot |
Sep-05-07 02:44 PM |
#54 |
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I've always considered it like glasses, you know? |
badgerpup |
Sep-05-07 02:45 PM |
#55 |
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So there IS a god for some people and for others there really ISN'T? |
FiveGoodMen |
Sep-05-07 02:58 PM |
#61 |
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If there really is a god... |
badgerpup |
Sep-05-07 10:33 PM |
#93 |
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I'll second that! |
FiveGoodMen |
Sep-06-07 12:23 PM |
#102 |
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But, it's oh so creative and insightful, dontcha know? |
wryter2000 |
Sep-05-07 02:48 PM |
#59 |
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IMO religion is better compared to dogmatic ideologies like Marxism. |
Odin2005 |
Sep-05-07 03:02 PM |
#62 |
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Dogmatic religions are dogmatic ideologies, but not all religions are dogmatic. |
lvx35 |
Sep-05-07 03:06 PM |
#63 |
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Religion does not equal Spirituality, Religion is DOGMATIC Spirituality. |
Odin2005 |
Sep-05-07 03:13 PM |
#65 |
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Ah, but it does, that's the tricky part. |
lvx35 |
Sep-05-07 03:19 PM |
#66 |
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I would not call my religion dogmatic. |
Marrah_G |
Sep-06-07 06:38 AM |
#96 |
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Thank you. The equating of ideological dissent with mental illness comes strait from the Soviet... |
lvx35 |
Sep-05-07 03:08 PM |
#64 |
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Plenty of religious people think God talks directly to them. |
smoogatz |
Sep-05-07 03:46 PM |
#69 |
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I don't have problems with equating certain behaviors with mental illness, |
lvx35 |
Sep-05-07 04:01 PM |
#70 |
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Lots of mentally ill people are functional. |
smoogatz |
Sep-05-07 04:14 PM |
#72 |
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I see a difference there. |
lvx35 |
Sep-05-07 04:26 PM |
#75 |
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So if you're functional and don't seek treatment, you're fine? |
smoogatz |
Sep-05-07 04:32 PM |
#76 |
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In the eyes of mental health, yes. |
lvx35 |
Sep-05-07 04:33 PM |
#78 |
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You might want to read up on Dahmer and get back to me: |
smoogatz |
Sep-05-07 04:36 PM |
#81 |
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By the way, thanks. |
lvx35 |
Sep-05-07 04:32 PM |
#77 |
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My complaint isn't with religion, it's with the way religion is privileged |
smoogatz |
Sep-05-07 04:35 PM |
#79 |
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Right, and I basically support you in that. |
lvx35 |
Sep-05-07 04:50 PM |
#84 |
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I'm a little confused by your post. |
smoogatz |
Sep-05-07 03:19 PM |
#67 |
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Here's what I am saying |
turtlensue |
Sep-05-07 04:23 PM |
#73 |
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What if God tells you to home-school your kids |
smoogatz |
Sep-05-07 04:25 PM |
#74 |
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I think if you think God is talking to you.. |
turtlensue |
Sep-05-07 04:36 PM |
#80 |
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That's just not true. |
smoogatz |
Sep-05-07 04:40 PM |
#82 |
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so based on the actions of SOME |
turtlensue |
Sep-05-07 04:44 PM |
#83 |
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Like I said, to me most religious experience looks like mild delusion-- |
smoogatz |
Sep-05-07 06:23 PM |
#87 |
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What about people who think THEY are talking TO god? |
PassingFair |
Feb-02-08 10:31 PM |
#125 |
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Thank you Turtlensue. It does get pretty tiresome nt |
JerseygirlCT |
Sep-05-07 03:37 PM |
#68 |
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If you genuinely think that god told you to murder people |
Heaven and Earth |
Sep-05-07 04:53 PM |
#85 |
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Apparently, some people cannot. I don't know... |
TreasonousBastard |
Sep-05-07 05:59 PM |
#86 |
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You say crazy like it's a BAD thing..... |
TalkingDog |
Sep-05-07 08:11 PM |
#88 |
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I agree. |
varkam |
Sep-05-07 08:44 PM |
#89 |
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Bill Moyers is a Baptist minister. I don't believe he is mentally ill. |
Old Crusoe |
Sep-05-07 09:14 PM |
#90 |
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Some people think saying half the forum is mentally ill is a great way to open communication |
Marrah_G |
Sep-06-07 11:47 AM |
#99 |
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Problem of terminology/Degree? |
Realityhack |
Sep-07-07 07:05 AM |
#111 |
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If it is, then Obama, H. Clinton, Edwards, Kerry and Bill Clinton are all mentally insane. |
Exiled in America |
Sep-16-07 12:46 PM |
#118 |
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If it is, then Bill Moyers, Martin Luther King, John and Bobby Kennedy were all insane. |
Exiled in America |
Sep-16-07 12:48 PM |
#119 |
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+++ Accidental duplicate deleted +++ |
ZoltanZ |
Feb-02-08 07:17 PM |
#120 |
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PLEASE stop equating religion with mental illness |
ZoltanZ |
Feb-02-08 07:29 PM |
#121 |
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I think you might be misreading the OP. |
varkam |
Feb-02-08 10:27 PM |
#124 |
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when religion is sane. I am ok with it. |
zonmoy |
Feb-02-08 08:24 PM |
#122 |
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If much good can come of one's being inspired to be kinder to others |
Old Crusoe |
Feb-03-08 05:17 AM |
#126 |
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To me, its never been proved that Christianity is the source of inspirations. |
heidler1 |
Feb-03-08 01:44 PM |
#127 |
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I'm cool with that, heidler1, but was just saying that no matter the |
Old Crusoe |
Feb-03-08 09:31 PM |
#128 |
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Dobson's hatefulness proves to me that he is incapable of reciprocal kindness. |
heidler1 |
Feb-04-08 12:29 PM |
#129 |
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Dobson's is a dark poison. Have you seen the bumpser sticker that says |
Old Crusoe |
Feb-04-08 01:45 PM |
#130 |
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We have a whole crop of people in leadership positions that are using religion to con their follower |
heidler1 |
Feb-04-08 02:40 PM |
#131 |
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Yes. The manipulation lever is going to need all new parts once this |
Old Crusoe |
Feb-04-08 05:31 PM |
#134 |
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I do not suppose religious people are mentally ill. |
Deep13 |
Feb-04-08 03:45 PM |
#132 |
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Sorry, I've been thinking about this. Exorcism is definately.... |
PassingFair |
Feb-04-08 07:46 PM |
#135 |
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I just put assholes who say shit like that on ignore- They aren't worth knowing. |
Marrah_G |
Feb-07-08 08:04 AM |
#140 |
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Well there has to be some reason why so many think that.. |
and-justice-for-all |
Feb-07-08 08:43 PM |
#142 |
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I have an officially mentally ill brother |
sleebarker |
Feb-09-08 11:17 AM |
#143 |