Reply #75: I'm not sure why you find the premise of this thread so hard to grasp.

[Silent3]

You seem intent, however, on using this thread to demonstrate your erudition in formal logic. So I'll take a moment to say bravo, congratulations, hip hip... by whatever horse you've decided to climb onto and ride with dazzling speed and grace in a bold but completely off-course direction from the purpose of this thread, you've thoroughly and admirable proved there are some things which are indeed "beyond logic".

Way to go! w00t!

Now... back to what the thread is really about. It's not about where logic fails. It's not about where self-referential games get logic's panties all in a twist. This thread is in response to the way other people have dropped the line "beyond logic" on me when, rather than admit that something is unknown or unknowable or a confusing paradox that they don't really have a clue about, that they have an alternative method the goes beyond logic, does what logic can't do (but in an unprovable way, of course), provides answers that logic can't provide (but in an unverifiable way, of course), etc.