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Reply #62: If the "Good News Clubs" were relevant here, you'd have a great point. [View All]

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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-25-06 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. If the "Good News Clubs" were relevant here, you'd have a great point.
But because those cases only have to do with religious groups meeting, not using government resources to proselytize, they really don't support your argument at all.

Here are some things for you to chew on.

http://www.au.org/site/PageServer?pagename=legal_litiga... (Scroll down to "Religious-Display Cases.")

Also http://www.au.org/site/DocServer/NonLitigSum020601.pdf?...

And please feel free to explore the entire Americans United site for more information on state-church separation. I am disappointed that you are basically parroting the positions of people like Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell, who try and misuse the "free speech" right as a shoehorn to wedge religion into government.
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  -Religion in the Public Square bryant69  Dec-20-06 01:38 PM   #0 
  - What if it was a Univeraslist church?  Kerrytravelers   Dec-20-06 01:45 PM   #1 
  - It depends. How are applicants selected?  eallen   Dec-20-06 01:52 PM   #2 
  - Depends on if the display was religious in nature  ayeshahaqqiqa   Dec-20-06 02:00 PM   #3 
  - But not just a generic christmas display?  bryant69   Dec-20-06 02:07 PM   #5 
     - Depends on what you mean by "generic"  ayeshahaqqiqa   Dec-20-06 02:15 PM   #6 
        - A christmas tree with a little card saying "First Baptist"  bryant69   Dec-20-06 02:20 PM   #7 
  - You said it was a townhall window box  Lowell   Dec-20-06 02:06 PM   #4 
  - Could go either way.  WakingLife   Dec-20-06 02:53 PM   #8 
  - As for two it would depend on what the constitutes the  bryant69   Dec-20-06 03:17 PM   #10 
     - No we don't.  WakingLife   Dec-20-06 05:16 PM   #15 
     - Ah - the "I'm right, you're wrong" card. Well played.  bryant69   Dec-20-06 05:57 PM   #18 
        - It's just that I can't believe you honestly think that  WakingLife   Dec-21-06 06:47 AM   #23 
           - Everytime I have this discussion  bryant69   Dec-21-06 08:07 AM   #26 
              - I guess that's why the court rejected it too right?  WakingLife   Dec-21-06 08:50 AM   #28 
                 - You should keep in mind rule 3  bryant69   Dec-21-06 08:54 AM   #29 
     - Cases like this happen all the time  Az   Dec-20-06 06:06 PM   #19 
        - That's my understanding of how it works as well  bryant69   Dec-20-06 06:09 PM   #20 
  - You can't keep the church out.  Sam1   Dec-20-06 03:10 PM   #9 
  - Then you can't keep out the Wiccans either  cosmik debris   Dec-20-06 03:25 PM   #12 
  - Some are already howling, it's already fun to watch  charlie   Dec-20-06 04:00 PM   #14 
  - That is absolutely correct. And that is the way it should be.  Sam1   Dec-20-06 09:20 PM   #21 
  - You forgot to read the whole ammendment!  WakingLife   Dec-20-06 05:17 PM   #16 
     - don't need to - the window box is a public forum and therefor  Sam1   Dec-20-06 09:35 PM   #22 
        - Tell it to the judge.  WakingLife   Dec-21-06 06:51 AM   #24 
           - This has been told to the judge - It is  Sam1   Dec-21-06 07:38 AM   #25 
  - It completely depends on one factor: is the government involved in any way?  Zhade   Dec-20-06 03:23 PM   #11 
  - Hmmmmmmm  bryant69   Dec-20-06 03:42 PM   #13 
  - It depends on whether any and all groups can apply  Az   Dec-20-06 05:19 PM   #17 
  - What if so many groups apply that some have to be turned down?  trotsky   Dec-21-06 08:24 AM   #27 
     - That is a very real problem  Az   Dec-21-06 09:13 AM   #30 
     - Random drawing solves the problem very easily.  Sam1   Dec-21-06 11:27 AM   #31 
        - Ha! Yeah, right.  trotsky   Dec-21-06 12:29 PM   #32 
           - Because like any other group religious groups are protected  Sam1   Dec-21-06 02:25 PM   #33 
              - Religious groups are unique.  trotsky   Dec-21-06 02:30 PM   #34 
                 - So? That matters under other fact patterns but not this set.  Sam1   Dec-21-06 02:36 PM   #35 
                    - It matters quite a bit, actually.  trotsky   Dec-21-06 02:39 PM   #36 
                       - This is a free speech issue. The town government has  Sam1   Dec-21-06 04:44 PM   #37 
                          - Think of it as a public notice board  Az   Dec-21-06 05:44 PM   #39 
                          - agreed. However it is more then a public notice board as  Sam1   Dec-21-06 06:19 PM   #40 
                          - Yep  Az   Dec-21-06 06:22 PM   #42 
                             - To Bad. But so true.  Sam1   Dec-21-06 07:05 PM   #43 
                          - Christians are not the only who can become insensed.  Sam1   Dec-21-06 06:21 PM   #41 
                             - True but its typically for different reasons  Az   Dec-21-06 10:32 PM   #47 
                                - I do not think that this atitude is  Sam1   Dec-22-06 09:36 AM   #50 
                          - Public forum? Puh-lease.  trotsky   Dec-21-06 07:16 PM   #44 
                             - The government can't denigrate religion. If it is going to provide  Sam1   Dec-21-06 09:28 PM   #45 
                                - Denigrate?  trotsky   Dec-21-06 10:18 PM   #46 
                                   - Definition two fits your position very well.  Sam1   Dec-22-06 09:29 AM   #48 
                                      - Sorry, I don't agree.  trotsky   Dec-22-06 09:35 AM   #49 
                                         - There is more to the first amendment then the religion clauses.  Sam1   Dec-22-06 09:54 AM   #51 
                                            - Think about this for a moment.  trotsky   Dec-22-06 10:00 AM   #53 
                                               - This is a different issue.  Sam1   Dec-23-06 01:56 PM   #55 
                                                  - That's too bad.  trotsky   Dec-24-06 02:39 PM   #58 
                                                     - This is a freedom of speech issue. Having offered the space to  Sam1   Dec-25-06 08:21 AM   #61 
                                                     - If the "Good News Clubs" were relevant here, you'd have a great point.  trotsky   Dec-25-06 08:18 PM   #62 
                                                     - Good News Club is relevant to the discussion.  Sam1   Dec-25-06 10:24 PM   #63 
                                                     - Nope, Good News Club not the same.  trotsky   Dec-26-06 11:12 AM   #65 
  - Depends.  Crunchy Frog   Dec-21-06 05:30 PM   #38 
  - What about the KKK or the white supremacists....should they be allowed to put stuff in the public  Evoman   Dec-22-06 09:58 AM   #52 
  - Right - there is nothing like getting down on their level.  Sam1   Dec-23-06 10:19 PM   #56 
  - Interesting that you should mention the KKK  ayeshahaqqiqa   Dec-24-06 04:42 PM   #59 
     - Good for the Board of Supervisors  Sam1   Dec-25-06 10:27 PM   #64 
  - Memory of a failed experiment in the public square  Az   Dec-22-06 02:04 PM   #54 
  - Why am I not surprised?  BuffyTheFundieSlayer   Dec-24-06 11:56 AM   #57 
  - So its a one-sided display??  and-justice-for-all   Dec-25-06 05:47 AM   #60 
 

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