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Reply #16: Part of the problem is that TIA's work is offered up as some absolute proof. [View All]

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Wilms Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-14-11 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Part of the problem is that TIA's work is offered up as some absolute proof.
Proof? I can't make sense of that claim. And I think the 2000/2004 elections had serious problems. But why bother at this point? There's plenty of proven truths around to help start the discussion. And as OTOH has pointed out, they don't get a lot of airtime.

One would be the Florida count done long after the 2000 election. It showed, had ALL the ballots had been counted, that Bush lost. In Ohio in 2004, people went to jail for screwing with a canvass that might have led to a recount. Then there's piles of scientists demonstrating that these computer systems are hackable. And I think half the reason we don't hear more about that is because of all the noise created by the TIAs and their respective cheerleaders.

Plus, too many who hang out in the election reform world are there because of partisan interest. You can be a partisan, and be logical and truthful. But it doesn't always work out that well. And the partisanship is a road block to a discussion with a wider audience.

Finally, it seems that many who complain about elections have little idea of all that's involved. They think voting on a paper ballot solves the problem. Or that "getting rid of Diebold" somehow puts you in a better position. They'll argue right past the notion of an honest mistake or malfunction insisting that it's fraud. TIA posts EIRS complaints claiming that a lever machine malfunctioned by not punching the ballot through and leaving chads. The most considered affirming comments to such nonsense is "K&R". And there are many more examples of that kind.

More reasonable folk walk away.

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  -VOTING MACHINES = TRIGGER - We must get rid of those g-damned computer voting machines! kpete  Mar-12-11 11:37 AM   #0 
  - K&R  jemelanson   Mar-12-11 11:39 AM   #1 
  - Case in point:  Blue Owl   Mar-12-11 11:48 AM   #2 
  - I've had my suspicions since November  DemReadingDU   Mar-12-11 11:52 AM   #3 
  - You know we have paper ballots in WIsconsin, right?  eyesroll   Mar-12-11 11:54 AM   #4 
  - The fudging come in at the collection point  Demeter   Mar-12-11 12:19 PM   #5 
  - Yes, Florida got a paper ballot and still certifies electronic totals! Only audits 1-2%  SugarShack   Apr-19-11 12:06 PM   #22 
  - Do you have a link to the post you're citing?  Wilms   Mar-12-11 12:59 PM   #7 
  - What percentage of the scanned ballots is compared to the machine totals? That is the question.  Peace Patriot   Mar-12-11 02:03 PM   #9 
  - AMEN! I agree wholeheartedly. When those came in, our freedoms went out.  Frustratedlady   Mar-12-11 12:23 PM   #6 
  - Great reminder.  think4yourself   Mar-12-11 01:06 PM   #8 
  - I have a question but I can't post  emcguffie   Mar-12-11 02:30 PM   #10 
     - Pitching TIA's methodology would be the surest way of having the issue ignored.  Wilms   Mar-12-11 02:38 PM   #11 
        - But what he says makes sense.  emcguffie   Mar-13-11 01:09 PM   #12 
           - Like I stated, counting enough ballots would be a really good idea.  Wilms   Mar-13-11 02:09 PM   #13 
              - Well, I'm guessing that's what a lot of activists are working on.  emcguffie   Mar-13-11 11:36 PM   #14 
                 - for what it's worth...  OnTheOtherHand   Mar-14-11 07:58 AM   #15 
                 - Well, I disagree.  emcguffie   Apr-13-11 08:41 PM   #19 
                 - Part of the problem is that TIA's work is offered up as some absolute proof.  Wilms   Mar-14-11 09:09 AM   #16 
                 - Maybe I'm really stupid.  emcguffie   Apr-13-11 08:57 PM   #20 
                    - You asked why some give TIA a thumbs down. I told you why I did.  Wilms   Apr-14-11 09:00 AM   #21 
                 - Electronic voting  Democracydiva   Mar-16-11 01:27 AM   #17 
                    - Well, thank you for that.  emcguffie   Mar-16-11 05:07 PM   #18 

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