You are viewing an obsolete version of the DU website which is no longer supported by the Administrators. Visit The New DU.
Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Reply #23: Some people [View All]

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU
Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Some people
have a very naive view of how complex counting the votes in an election is. If we had simple UNIFORM ballots in all 3,000+ counties (each county makes its own rules, subject to state and federal standards), then an argument could be made for HCPA being the best method, but reality is quite different from ideal.

If I recall, in 2004 during the recall election of Gray Davis, the ballot ran 40+ pages. Heck my last ballot was 11x17, front and back and covered almost 30 races, bond issues, and such.

It seems the folks screaming the loudest from unconditional HCPB, are people who have never bothered to witness the process first hand.

Of course you can go accuse all of them of attempted fraud. That'll be a real conversation starter.


You put your finger on the best way to keep change from ever occurring. People who run elections can get pretty shirty about being called crooks. Whenever I dealt with them I was always respectful, and tried to explain to them that while I trusted them, they should NEVER trust the vendors. If they insisted on trusting vendors, their own integrity would suffer. Since we were just coming off an election where they had gotten burned by a major machine failure that caused them lots of grief, public humiliation and money, they were receptive to that view.

The major problem I saw in the entire discussion was election officials getting too trusting of the vendors. Since in every election they worked with vendors to make things go smoothly, they kind of saw themselves on the same side. I did my damndest to disabuse them of this view.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
  -The strange case of the second database table Kelvin Mace  Oct-19-10 06:36 PM   #0 
  - The problem here  notesdev   Oct-19-10 07:28 PM   #1 
  - Well, I am not trying to establish  Kelvin Mace   Oct-19-10 08:51 PM   #2 
     - All we can establish with the facts we have  notesdev   Oct-20-10 12:48 PM   #6 
        - You are preaching to the choir  Kelvin Mace   Oct-20-10 01:28 PM   #7 
           - The evidence is in the method chosen  notesdev   Oct-20-10 02:09 PM   #8 
              - Uh. Speed.  Wilms   Oct-20-10 05:08 PM   #10 
              - That doesn't address the issue  notesdev   Oct-20-10 05:48 PM   #11 
              - You can have paper ballots counted by a scanner without sacrificing integrity? How? nt  Bill Bored   Oct-20-10 07:45 PM   #15 
              - I did address the issue you brought up.  Wilms   Oct-20-10 08:24 PM   #18 
                 - Some people  Kelvin Mace   Oct-21-10 12:21 PM   #23 
                    - Now that's a fair criticism of Election Officials.  Wilms   Oct-21-10 12:42 PM   #25 
              - Agreed  Kelvin Mace   Oct-20-10 07:32 PM   #14 
              - Sorry, I must disagree  Kelvin Mace   Oct-20-10 07:30 PM   #13 
                 - Cabal?  Bill Bored   Oct-20-10 08:00 PM   #16 
                    - There are a lot of problems  Kelvin Mace   Oct-21-10 12:57 PM   #26 
                       - How about this example (consider it a "hybrid case"):  Bill Bored   Oct-22-10 02:46 AM   #30 
                          - What can I say?  Kelvin Mace   Oct-22-10 08:17 AM   #31 
                             - I don't think the system was purchased with those illegal features...  Bill Bored   Oct-23-10 01:16 AM   #34 
  - How about: ballot text is editable; database records are not?  Bill Bored   Oct-19-10 11:41 PM   #3 
  - You and those prickly details, again?  Wilms   Oct-20-10 12:03 AM   #4 
  - In either case  Kelvin Mace   Oct-20-10 07:58 AM   #5 
     - re: "...with proper safeguards, OpScan is the best solution..."  Wilms   Oct-20-10 05:00 PM   #9 
     - Certainly...  Kelvin Mace   Oct-20-10 07:14 PM   #12 
        - Mostly  Wilms   Oct-20-10 08:32 PM   #19 
        - Well  Kelvin Mace   Oct-21-10 12:03 PM   #22 
           - We'll go 'round in circles.  Wilms   Oct-21-10 12:38 PM   #24 
              - I'm kind of not understanding what you are saying here  Kelvin Mace   Oct-21-10 01:04 PM   #27 
                 - He's saying that knowing the source code doesn't protect the vote.  Bill Bored   Oct-22-10 02:19 AM   #28 
                    - That's pretty much my point. Thanks Bill.  Wilms   Oct-25-10 12:23 PM   #36 
        - Not one state does #3, including yours, although NC has made some progress. nt  Bill Bored   Oct-20-10 08:42 PM   #20 
           - Hmmm, I said...  Kelvin Mace   Oct-21-10 11:51 AM   #21 
              - You missed that only ONE contest is audited, and that the expansion of the audit did NOT happen...  Bill Bored   Oct-22-10 02:25 AM   #29 
                 - Ah, now I understand  Kelvin Mace   Oct-22-10 10:57 AM   #32 
                    - AGREED! (And of course Joyce rocks!) nt  Bill Bored   Oct-23-10 01:18 AM   #35 
     - Any system that allows vote switching is NOT the best solution we have.  Bill Bored   Oct-20-10 08:22 PM   #17 
  - you don't give much detail about why HCPB is so impossible.  diva77   Oct-22-10 02:31 PM   #33 
  - Fraud AND Greed  Catbird   Oct-25-10 01:38 PM   #37 
 

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Election Reform Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC