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Reply #13: Sorry, I must disagree [View All]

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Kelvin Mace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-20-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Sorry, I must disagree
There is no point to electronic voting OTHER than the opportunities it creates for fraud.

This construes the existence of a criminal cabal which I have yet to see evidence of.

It doesn't create a cost savings, these machines and their maintenance is expensive.

It is far cheaper, and more accurate (with proper safe guards) than hand counting. Hand-counting a hundred million plus mutli-page ballots is neither. Sorry, but that is just the case. The more people handling ballots, the greater the chance for error, ballot damage, loss, etc.

Maintenance is expensive, but again, cheaper than the cost of the legions of people that would be required to hand-count.

It doesn't enhance the integrity of the process, in fact it does quite the opposite by eliminating the paper trail

I agree, which is why I do not support paperless voting systems, and have fought against it for years.

So why do electronic voting at all? Until and unless someone advances a reason that is sufficient to overcome the two negatives listed above, the only reasonable assumption is that it is to enable fraud, full stop.

I have had my arguments (quite heated at times) with election officials over the years, but I never met one who didn't take their job seriously, and try to execute it with integrity.

I am sure dishonest election officials exist, but they are in the distinct minority.

Again, if a person is serious about their intent to change things, they don't walk into an election official's office and call him a crook. People who have done that have yet to accomplish anything constructive.

I know I will not convince you of my view, so I'm sorry we couldn't come to a meeting of minds.
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  -The strange case of the second database table Kelvin Mace  Oct-19-10 06:36 PM   #0 
  - The problem here  notesdev   Oct-19-10 07:28 PM   #1 
  - Well, I am not trying to establish  Kelvin Mace   Oct-19-10 08:51 PM   #2 
     - All we can establish with the facts we have  notesdev   Oct-20-10 12:48 PM   #6 
        - You are preaching to the choir  Kelvin Mace   Oct-20-10 01:28 PM   #7 
           - The evidence is in the method chosen  notesdev   Oct-20-10 02:09 PM   #8 
              - Uh. Speed.  Wilms   Oct-20-10 05:08 PM   #10 
              - That doesn't address the issue  notesdev   Oct-20-10 05:48 PM   #11 
              - You can have paper ballots counted by a scanner without sacrificing integrity? How? nt  Bill Bored   Oct-20-10 07:45 PM   #15 
              - I did address the issue you brought up.  Wilms   Oct-20-10 08:24 PM   #18 
                 - Some people  Kelvin Mace   Oct-21-10 12:21 PM   #23 
                    - Now that's a fair criticism of Election Officials.  Wilms   Oct-21-10 12:42 PM   #25 
              - Agreed  Kelvin Mace   Oct-20-10 07:32 PM   #14 
              - Sorry, I must disagree  Kelvin Mace   Oct-20-10 07:30 PM   #13 
                 - Cabal?  Bill Bored   Oct-20-10 08:00 PM   #16 
                    - There are a lot of problems  Kelvin Mace   Oct-21-10 12:57 PM   #26 
                       - How about this example (consider it a "hybrid case"):  Bill Bored   Oct-22-10 02:46 AM   #30 
                          - What can I say?  Kelvin Mace   Oct-22-10 08:17 AM   #31 
                             - I don't think the system was purchased with those illegal features...  Bill Bored   Oct-23-10 01:16 AM   #34 
  - How about: ballot text is editable; database records are not?  Bill Bored   Oct-19-10 11:41 PM   #3 
  - You and those prickly details, again?  Wilms   Oct-20-10 12:03 AM   #4 
  - In either case  Kelvin Mace   Oct-20-10 07:58 AM   #5 
     - re: "...with proper safeguards, OpScan is the best solution..."  Wilms   Oct-20-10 05:00 PM   #9 
     - Certainly...  Kelvin Mace   Oct-20-10 07:14 PM   #12 
        - Mostly  Wilms   Oct-20-10 08:32 PM   #19 
        - Well  Kelvin Mace   Oct-21-10 12:03 PM   #22 
           - We'll go 'round in circles.  Wilms   Oct-21-10 12:38 PM   #24 
              - I'm kind of not understanding what you are saying here  Kelvin Mace   Oct-21-10 01:04 PM   #27 
                 - He's saying that knowing the source code doesn't protect the vote.  Bill Bored   Oct-22-10 02:19 AM   #28 
                    - That's pretty much my point. Thanks Bill.  Wilms   Oct-25-10 12:23 PM   #36 
        - Not one state does #3, including yours, although NC has made some progress. nt  Bill Bored   Oct-20-10 08:42 PM   #20 
           - Hmmm, I said...  Kelvin Mace   Oct-21-10 11:51 AM   #21 
              - You missed that only ONE contest is audited, and that the expansion of the audit did NOT happen...  Bill Bored   Oct-22-10 02:25 AM   #29 
                 - Ah, now I understand  Kelvin Mace   Oct-22-10 10:57 AM   #32 
                    - AGREED! (And of course Joyce rocks!) nt  Bill Bored   Oct-23-10 01:18 AM   #35 
     - Any system that allows vote switching is NOT the best solution we have.  Bill Bored   Oct-20-10 08:22 PM   #17 
  - you don't give much detail about why HCPB is so impossible.  diva77   Oct-22-10 02:31 PM   #33 
  - Fraud AND Greed  Catbird   Oct-25-10 01:38 PM   #37 
 

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